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263504 "Joseph Sullivan" <joe@j...> 2017‑10‑12 Another project question
Friends:

To go into a cabin where I have already build a British A&C-style bookcase and
will over the next  three or four years, be making a settle, Morris chair and
wardrobe to match, I also need a floor lamp.  My concept is for oak with a taper
top to bottom.  It would be made of four pieces of q-sawn stock  in the old way
so that each side shows medial ray fleck.  Being long edges, it can be clamped
and glued, thus limiting tricky joinery.

The challenge is the compound angle.  I'll be joining four faces that are
tapering.  The closest I have come to this is in coopering, but with that I felt
my way into the angles with a paper pattern and a sliding T-bevel, and it was a
single angle throughout, with no taper.  Here, I don't know where to start.
Looked on-line and there is a page with a calculator for pyramids etc., but it
is for a table saw which I don't use, and gives angles I don't quite follow.
You would think that the angle of the bade to the table would be the one I need
to plane my angles, but I can't quite see how to get that number from that
calculator.

Any advice?

J


Joseph Sullivan
263505 "John M Johnston (jmjhnstn)" <jmjhnstn@m...> 2017‑10‑12 Re: Another project question
Can you make a full size drawing and work it out that way?

John

“P.S. If you do not receive this, of course it must have been miscarried;
therefore I beg you to write and let me know.” - Sir Boyle Roche, M.P.

On Oct 12, 2017, at 10:04 AM, Joseph Sullivan mailto:joe@j...>> wrote:

Friends:

To go into a cabin where I have already build a British A&C-style bookcase and
will over the next  three or four years, be making a settle, Morris chair and
wardrobe to match, I also need a floor lamp.  My concept is for oak with a taper
top to bottom.  It would be made of four pieces of q-sawn stock  in the old way
so that each side shows medial ray fleck.  Being long edges, it can be clamped
and glued, thus limiting tricky joinery.

The challenge is the compound angle.  I'll be joining four faces that are
tapering.  The closest I have come to this is in coopering, but with that I felt
my way into the angles with a paper pattern and a sliding T-bevel, and it was a
single angle throughout, with no taper.  Here, I don't know where to start.
Looked on-line and there is a page with a calculator for pyramids etc., but it
is for a table saw which I don't use, and gives angles I don't quite follow.
You would think that the angle of the bade to the table would be the one I need
to plane my angles, but I can't quite see how to get that number from that
calculator.
263506 "Joseph Sullivan" <joe@j...> 2017‑10‑12 Re: Another project question
Not sure how to allow for the taper in a drawing.  If I drew the sides, it
couldn’t show the angel, and if I drew the base I’d need to know the angle to
avoid a simple 45.

 

J

 

Joseph Sullivan

 

 

From: John M Johnston (jmjhnstn) [mailto:jmjhnst
n@m...] 
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 9:16 AM
To: joe@j...
Cc: oldtools@s...
Subject: Re: [OldTools] Another project question

 

Can you make a full size drawing and work it out that way?

 

John

“P.S. If you do not receive this, of course it must have been miscarried;
therefore I beg you to write and let me know.” - Sir Boyle Roche, M.P.


On Oct 12, 2017, at 10:04 AM, Joseph Sullivan mailto:joe@j...> > wrote:

Friends:

To go into a cabin where I have already build a British A&C-style bookcase and
will over the next  three or four years, be making a settle, Morris chair and
wardrobe to match, I also need a floor lamp.  My concept is for oak with a taper
top to bottom.  It would be made of four pieces of q-sawn stock  in the old way
so that each side shows medial ray fleck.  Being long edges, it can be clamped
and glued, thus limiting tricky joinery.

The challenge is the compound angle.  I'll be joining four faces that are
tapering.  The closest I have come to this is in coopering, but with that I felt
my way into the angles with a paper pattern and a sliding T-bevel, and it was a
single angle throughout, with no taper.  Here, I don't know where to start.
Looked on-line and there is a page with a calculator for pyramids etc., but it
is for a table saw which I don't use, and gives angles I don't quite follow.
You would think that the angle of the bade to the table would be the one I need
to plane my angles, but I can't quite see how to get that number from that
calculator.
263507 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2017‑10‑12 Re: Another project question
Just thinking here - the taper has nothing to do with the angle - it is the same
for the full height.  And I think it is just a little less than 45° - perhaps
42-43°.  There has to be a book somewhere that has the angles in it.

Here’s one now:

http://woodgears.ca/miter/

Ed Minch
263509 scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> 2017‑10‑12 Re: Another project question
Popular Mechanics has published it every few years throughout.
  "Hoppers" (technically what this is) 4, 5, 6 or 8 sided
I don't know how to search for you but I assume its posted somewhere.

If all else fails let me know and I will take pictures of the chart.
  yours Scott

-- 
*******************************
    Scott Grandstaff
    Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
    scottg@s...
    http://www.snowcrest.n
et/kitty/sgrandstaff/
    http://www.snowcr
est.net/kitty/hpages/index.html
263516 Thomas Conroy 2017‑10‑13 Re: Another project question
Joe Sullivan wrote: "...The challenge is the compound angle.  I'll be joining
four faces that are tapering.  The closest I have come to this is in coopering,
but with that I felt my way into the angles with a paper pattern and a sliding
T-bevel, and it was a single angle throughout, with no taper.  Here, I don't
know where to start...."

Kerf it in. I think that's the proper term for shipbuilding, making tight
threshing floors, etc. Rough-cut the boards, rough-plane them, then run a saw
down the horribly open, gappy joints. Repeat until you get a tight fit. For your
lamp you might clamp the four sides together, then saw down two diagonally
opposed joints at once. Alternate one diagonal and the other diagonal. You can
adjust and correct the tapers as you go along. Sneak up on the final shape.

Trying to do this with numbers is just going to screw you up. Rely on your tools
and your eye, do it the easy, simple, neo-traditional way.


Tom Conroy
Berkeley
263518 "Maddex, Peter" <peter.maddex@n...> 2017‑10‑13 Re: Another project question
Floor lamp you say...

https://flic.kr/p/XYaqN4

Some power tools where involved, sorry.

Pete



Peter Michael Maddex
Mad Bad and Dangerous to Know
WPS
Barnes Wallis Building
Nottingham Trent University


-----Original Message-----
From: OldTools [mailto:oldtools-bounces@
s...] On Behalf Of Joseph Sullivan
Sent: 12 October 2017 15:04
To: oldtools@s...
Subject: [OldTools] Another project question

Friends:

To go into a cabin where I have already build a British A&C-style bookcase and
will over the next  three or four years, be making a settle, Morris chair and
wardrobe to match, I also need a floor lamp.  My concept is for oak with a taper
top to bottom.  It would be made of four pieces of q-sawn stock  in the old way
so that each side shows medial ray fleck.  Being long edges, it can be clamped
and glued, thus limiting tricky joinery.

The challenge is the compound angle.  I'll be joining four faces that are
tapering.  The closest I have come to this is in coopering, but with that I felt
my way into the angles with a paper pattern and a sliding T-bevel, and it was a
single angle throughout, with no taper.  Here, I don't know where to start.
Looked on-line and there is a page with a calculator for pyramids etc., but it
is for a table saw which I don't use, and gives angles I don't quite follow.
You would think that the angle of the bade to the table would be the one I need
to plane my angles, but I can't quite see how to get that number from that
calculator.

Any advice?

J


Joseph Sullivan

------------------------------------------------------------------------
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availability, collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools,
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OldTools@s...
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263537 anne watson <annewatson9775@o...> 2017‑10‑13 Re: Another project question
I will probably never build this lamp but since I have an interest in Arts and
Craft furniture
I intend to save this picture.

Needless to say I am duly impressed’

I assume the height and depth would be determined by your own measurements
Or how about a table lamp?










4 AM
To: joe@j...<mailto:joe@j...>; oldtools@s...<mailto:oldtools@s...>
Subject: Re: [OldTools] Another project question

Floor lamp you say...

https://flic.kr/p/XYaqN4

Some power tools where involved, sorry.

Pete



Peter Michael Maddex
Mad Bad and Dangerous to Know
WPS
Barnes Wallis Building
Nottingham Trent University


-----Original Message-----
From: OldTools [mailto:oldtools-bounces@
s...] On Behalf Of Joseph Sullivan
Sent: 12 October 2017 15:04
To: oldtools@s...
Subject: [OldTools] Another project question

Friends:

To go into a cabin where I have already build a British A&C-style bookcase and
will over the next  three or four years, be making a settle, Morris chair and
wardrobe to match, I also need a floor lamp.  My concept is for oak with a taper
top to bottom.  It would be made of four pieces of q-sawn stock  in the old way
so that each side shows medial ray fleck.  Being long edges, it can be clamped
and glued, thus limiting tricky joinery.

The challenge is the compound angle.  I'll be joining four faces that are
tapering.  The closest I have come to this is in coopering, but with that I felt
my way into the angles with a paper pattern and a sliding T-bevel, and it was a
single angle throughout, with no taper.  Here, I don't know where to start.
Looked on-line and there is a page with a calculator for pyramids etc., but it
is for a table saw which I don't use, and gives angles I don't quite follow.
You would think that the angle of the bade to the table would be the one I need
to plane my angles, but I can't quite see how to get that number from that
calculator.

Any advice?

J


Joseph Sullivan

------------------------------------------------------------------------
OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool aficionados,
both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, value, location,
availability, collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools,
especially woodworking tools.

To change your subscription options:
https://
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OldTools@s...
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this email that do not relate to the official business of Nottingham Trent
University shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by the University.
Nottingham Trent University has taken steps to ensure that this email and any
attachments are virus-free, but we do advise that the recipient should check
that the email and its attachments are actually virus free. This is in keeping
with good computing practice.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.

To change your subscription options:
https://old
tools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools

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ot/

OldTools@s...
263547 Mark Pfeifer <markpfeifer@i...> 2017‑10‑14 Re: Another project question
In my last note I mentioned that there are plenty of people on this list whose
skill is light years beyond anything I’d undertake, and as I hit “send” here’s
an example of what I was talking about……

I will mention that having a son who is a mathematician comes in awful handy. He
has worked out things like this for me (including translating scale ratios in
the process) but when I look at this kind of complex joinery I content myself to
just enjoy the math.

Now I feel like I have to go practice my saw cuts and chisel work. :)
263552 "Maddex, Peter" <peter.maddex@n...> 2017‑10‑14 Re: Another project question
Thanks for the kind comments.


Its nothing but a box with a couple of long sides and an arm.

I did have to use pythagoras to work out the distance across the arm for the
pivot.

It was made to go at side of a settee and reach over, but you could make one to
any size.


Question for assembled glooterati, I can't think of hand tool way to cut a
circular dado to make a lazy susan like in the lamp base.


Pete

________________________________
From: Mark Pfeifer 
Sent: 14 October 2017 14:45:10
To: anne watson
Cc: Maddex, Peter; oldtools@s...
Subject: Re: [OldTools] Another project question

In my last note I mentioned that there are plenty of people on this list whose
skill is light years beyond anything I’d undertake, and as I hit “send” here’s
an example of what I was talking about……

I will mention that having a son who is a mathematician comes in awful handy. He
has worked out things like this for me (including translating scale ratios in
the process) but when I look at this kind of complex joinery I content myself to
just enjoy the math.

Now I feel like I have to go practice my saw cuts and chisel work. :)



> On Oct 13, 2017, at 4:56 PM, anne watson  wrote:
>
> I will probably never build this lamp but since I have an interest in Arts and
Craft furniture
> I intend to save this picture.
>
> Needless to say I am duly impressed’
>
> I assume the height and depth would be determined by your own measurements
> Or how about a table lamp?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 4 AM
> > To: joe@j...<mailto:joe@j...>; oldtools@s...<<
a href="mailto:oldtools@s...">mailto:oldtools@s...>
> Subject: Re: [OldTools] Another project question
>
> Floor lamp you say...
>
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outl
ook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fflic.kr%2Fp%2FXYaqN4&data=01%7C01%7Cpeter.maddex%40nt
u.ac.uk%7C6e778647f3e448aa961308d51309cbfb%7C8acbc2c5c8ed42c78169ba438a0dbe2f%7C
1&sdata=RcOV6fwqtIexEkYmt8iZHFDStHJ%2BxIAgs7W8htwnHDo%3D&reserved=0
>
> Some power tools where involved, sorry.
>
> Pete
>
>
>
> Peter Michael Maddex
> Mad Bad and Dangerous to Know
> WPS
> Barnes Wallis Building
> Nottingham Trent University
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> > From: OldTools [mailto:oldtools-boun
ces@s...] On Behalf Of Joseph Sullivan
> Sent: 12 October 2017 15:04
> To: oldtools@s...
> Subject: [OldTools] Another project question
>
> Friends:
>
> To go into a cabin where I have already build a British A&C-style bookcase and
will over the next  three or four years, be making a settle, Morris chair and
wardrobe to match, I also need a floor lamp.  My concept is for oak with a taper
top to bottom.  It would be made of four pieces of q-sawn stock  in the old way
so that each side shows medial ray fleck.  Being long edges, it can be clamped
and glued, thus limiting tricky joinery.
>
> The challenge is the compound angle.  I'll be joining four faces that are
tapering.  The closest I have come to this is in coopering, but with that I felt
my way into the angles with a paper pattern and a sliding T-bevel, and it was a
single angle throughout, with no taper.  Here, I don't know where to start.
Looked on-line and there is a page with a calculator for pyramids etc., but it
is for a table saw which I don't use, and gives angles I don't quite follow.
You would think that the angle of the bade to the table would be the one I need
to plane my angles, but I can't quite see how to get that number from that
calculator.
>
> Any advice?
>
> J
>
>
> Joseph Sullivan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool aficionados,
both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, value, location,
availability, collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools,
especially woodworking tools.
>
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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263553 Bill Ghio <bghio@m...> 2017‑10‑14 Re: Another project question
Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 14, 2017, at 2:01 PM, Maddex, Peter  wrote:
> 
> Question for assembled glooterati, I can't think of hand tool way to cut a
circular dado to make a lazy susan like in the lamp base.

I am guessing a treadle lathe could do it, but a great wheel lathe would be a
better choice. Lacking those I would try a trammel. A piece of saw blade with a
few teeth at the end of the trammel would get you, eventually, a cut. Extend a
bit and repeat. After that, careful chisel work.  Wonder how a router at the end
of a trammel would/could work?

Bill, speculating like crazy this afternoon.
263556 "Maddex, Peter" <peter.maddex@n...> 2017‑10‑14 Re: Another project question
Mmm like a giant stringing cutter, that would work.


Pete


________________________________
From: Bill Ghio 
Sent: 14 October 2017 19:15
To: Maddex, Peter
Cc: Mark Pfeifer; anne watson; oldtools@s...
Subject: Re: [OldTools] Another project question



Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 14, 2017, at 2:01 PM, Maddex, Peter  wrote:
>
> Question for assembled glooterati, I can't think of hand tool way to cut a
circular dado to make a lazy susan like in the lamp base.

I am guessing a treadle lathe could do it, but a great wheel lathe would be a
better choice. Lacking those I would try a trammel. A piece of saw blade with a
few teeth at the end of the trammel would get you, eventually, a cut. Extend a
bit and repeat. After that, careful chisel work.  Wonder how a router at the end
of a trammel would/could work?

Bill, speculating like crazy this afternoon.
DISCLAIMER: This email is intended solely for the addressee. It may contain
private and confidential information. If you are not the intended addressee,
please take no action based on it nor show a copy to anyone. In this case,
please reply to this email to highlight the error. Opinions and information in
this email that do not relate to the official business of Nottingham Trent
University shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by the University.
Nottingham Trent University has taken steps to ensure that this email and any
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that the email and its attachments are actually virus free. This is in keeping
with good computing practice.
263587 "yorkshireman@y..." <yorkshireman@y...> 2017‑10‑16 Re: Another project question
> On 14 Oct 2017, at 19:01, Maddex, Peter  wrote:
snip
> Question for assembled glooterati, I can't think of hand tool way to cut a
circular dado to make a lazy susan like in the lamp base.

What a good question!

carve it - if you insist on doing it in situ.  Make up a cutter to be mounted in
a trammel head to do the nicking, then follow with a chisel to remove a veneer
depth - repeat.

Or, you could rearrange the design a little 
Build up the base using a solid bottom, a piece with a circular hole the outside
diameter, and a circle the inside diameter.  Use the material cut out to form
the hole to form the disc.  The grain will match.  Glue together.   All done
with saws, and maybe a shaped block for abrasive to smooth off the curves.   No
burn marks.  No jigs to make.  No earmuffs needed.


Richard Wilson
Northumbrian Galoot

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