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262559 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2017‑06‑25 Sap wood
GGG

I usually try to buy wood with as little sap wood on it as possible.  I have
ended up with some walnut that has a couple of thin strips of sap along edges.
Does any one have a preferred procedure to tone this down?

Ed Minch
262579 Bill Webber <ol2lrus@v...> 2017‑06‑26 Re: Sap wood
Hey Ed,

Just don't do it!  Nice dark, rich walnut will lighten over time. Any 
stain blending of the sap wood you might attempt when the wood is fresh 
will not lighten the same way as the heart wood.  You saw what happened 
to my work bench after exposure to sun for 10 years.  I save any walnut 
with sap wood for inside skirts or drawer pieces where they won't show 
so much.

Bill W.
In Beautiful downtown Nottingham, PA
262580 "Frank Filippone" <red735il@g...> 2017‑06‑26 Re: Sap wood
Actually, Walnut heartwood ( the dark stuff) gets LIGHTER with sun exposure.
The sap wood pretty much stays the same as when freshly worked.
You could try a stain (start off light and work your way to dark) over the
sapwood.... it will work, but over time, it will show as too dark....

The secret is to buy and build with as little sapwood as you can.... if you
want it all the same color....

BUT.... if you are creative, the sap wood can be quite beautiful.... edges,
or book matched to the center, create wonderful embellishments.... 

Frank Filippone
Red735il@g...


-----Original Message-----
From: OldTools [mailto:oldtools-bounces@s...] On Behalf Of Bill
Webber
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 7:07 AM
To: Ed Minch; porch
Subject: Re: [OldTools] Sap wood

Hey Ed,

Just don't do it!  Nice dark, rich walnut will lighten over time. Any stain
blending of the sap wood you might attempt when the wood is fresh will not
lighten the same way as the heart wood.  You saw what happened to my work
bench after exposure to sun for 10 years.  I save any walnut with sap wood
for inside skirts or drawer pieces where they won't show so much.

Bill W.
In Beautiful downtown Nottingham, PA

On 6/24/2017 10:15 PM, Ed Minch wrote:
> GGG
>
> I usually try to buy wood with as little sap wood on it as possible.  I
have ended up with some walnut that has a couple of thin strips of sap along
edges.  Does any one have a preferred procedure to tone this down?
262581 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2017‑06‑26 Re: Sap wood
Frank

Thanks for that.  I got this wood from a friend in WVA who was closing a 30 year
old shop where he used local woods to make “appalachian” sort of stuff.  The
wood was at least 10 years on the rack and $2 a bf, so I did my best select
around the sap, but the pretty-dark top has a couple of thin strips of sap along
the glue line beween the 2 pieces.

I will use the analine dies that I am used to and not make the sap as dark as
the rest of the top.  And I don’t care for sap in almost any situation if it is
contrasting with the heart.

In guitar making, there are those that love the sap.  Brazilian Rosewood is
getting hard enough to find that you can pay hundreds and even thousands for
something like this:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ruby1638/35548320365/in/dateposted-public/


Ed Minch
262585 <gtgrouch@r...> 2017‑06‑26 Re: Sap wood
I understand that some commercial walnut is steamed.  Apparently, this will
cause the color to bleed into the sapwood (or even out, or something). Does
anybody know details?

I just get my walnut from Bill Webber. Thank way I know it's heartwood. (Bill,
I'm still working with those pieces I got from you, in 2014 I think.)  I don't
use much walnut except for special projects.

Gary Katsanis
Albion New York, USA




---- Bill Webber  wrote: 

=============
Hey Ed,

Just don't do it!  Nice dark, rich walnut will lighten over time. Any 
stain blending of the sap wood you might attempt when the wood is fresh 
will not lighten the same way as the heart wood.  You saw what happened 
to my work bench after exposure to sun for 10 years.  I save any walnut 
with sap wood for inside skirts or drawer pieces where they won't show 
so much.

Bill W.
In Beautiful downtown Nottingham, PA

On 6/24/2017 10:15 PM, Ed Minch wrote:
> GGG
>
> I usually try to buy wood with as little sap wood on it as possible.  I have
ended up with some walnut that has a couple of thin strips of sap along edges.
Does any one have a preferred procedure to tone this down?
>
> Ed Minch
>
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.

To change your subscription options:
https://oldtools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools

To read the FAQ:
https://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html

OldTools archive: https://swingleydev.com/ot/

OldTools@s...
262587 Nick Jonkman <njonkman@x...> 2017‑06‑26 Re: Sap wood
Yes all walnut is steamed to balance the colour

My daughter & son in law worked for a veneer company many years ago and 
all their logs sat in a steam bath probably overnight . Memory is 
getting a bit vague on that but I can still see the big concrete pit 
with steam pouring in where the logs were rolled into.

Nick
262592 Brent A Kinsey <brentpmed@c...> 2017‑06‑27 Re: Sap wood
Ed, 
Another alternative is to use shellac to tone the sap wood and in 10 or 20 years
when the color has changed on the heartwood, the shellac is easy to take off.  I
did this on a bedside table to blend in the sap wood. I used an amber shellac,
then a garnet shellac with a little alcohol dye in it to match the rest of the
wood. Worked for me.

$.02

Brent

Sent from my iPad
262597 Claudio DeLorenzi <claudio@d...> 2017‑06‑27 Re: Sap wood
I agree with Brent. Sapwood takes color more than heartwood. Soaks it up. I
often use pigmented shellacs- it's easy to adjust color, and if you don't
like it, you can remove some of it with a denatured alcohol. Easy.  Should
be top coated with something tougher though.
A good alternative to shellac: the pigmented Danish Oils (polymerized
linseed oil plus thinner plus whatever proprietary stuff) also works
surprisingly well to even out the color. Again, the sapwood seems to absorb
more pigment.  Try both on scraps first.  That's the most important story
of finishing.  Do a scrap board, in sections, and record exactly what you
did (including sanding grits if you sanded). This creates a storyboard of
what you did, so that you can recreate that finish in the future if you
create a complimentary piece.
20000 Canukistani Kopecs approx equal to 2 cents in USD
Claudio
262668 "Linda & Tom Hall" <l-thall@c...> 2017‑07‑16 Re: Sap Wood
Hi All,

Just finished a Walnut coffee table designed around it’s sap wood.
The base has no sap wood and is beautiful dark brown normal figured Walnut.
The top has highly figure pillowed grain with some sap wood edges for contrast.
I have used Watco Danish Oil on all surfaces and it POPS the grain, I need a
highly usable top surface and am looking to use a glossy oil spar varnish finish
on the top.  Has anyone tried this?

Tommy Hall
Amesbury, MA
262669 "John M Johnston (jmjhnstn)" <jmjhnstn@m...> 2017‑07‑16 Re: Sap Wood
Tommy, I've not tried that, but I have used several coats of thinned shellac
well rubbed out, followed by two coats of thinned satin finish alkyd varnish.
The table has taken serious use and abuse with no ill effects. My personal
tastes do not run in the direction of glossy shiny finishes, but if desired, you
could use glossy varnish instead of the satin finish.

Can't wait to see photos!

Cheers,
John

“P.S. If you do not receive this, of course it must have been miscarried;
therefore I beg you to write and let me know.” - Sir Boyle Roche, M.P.

On Jul 16, 2017, at 10:15 AM, Linda & Tom Hall mailto:l-thall@c...">mailto:l-thall@c...>> wrote:

The top has highly figure pillowed grain with some sap wood edges for contrast.
I have used Watco Danish Oil on all surfaces and it POPS the grain, I need a
highly usable top surface and am looking to use a glossy oil spar varnish finish
on the top.  Has anyone tried this?
262670 Brent A Kinsey <brentpmed@c...> 2017‑07‑16 Re: Sap Wood
Agree, seal with shellac then you can top coat with whatever you choose.  Sounds
like a beautiful table.  Pictures!

Sent from my iPad
262671 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2017‑07‑16 Re: Sap Wood
A local cabinetmaker uses many coats of spar varnish (just a varnish designed to
stay flexible so it moves with the wood in an outdoor location - I can tell you
a good story) and polished it through the grits and with power polishers so it
is gorgeous:

http://www.viccovonvoss.com

Having done my share of spar-varnishing, I would not have thought you could
polish it so succesfully.

Ed Minch
262672 bridger@b... 2017‑07‑16 Re: Sap Wood
Thin your oil based varnish of choice and apply it the same as the
watco, lots of thin coats.use fine sandpaper between coats. Unless
gloss varnish, keep it well mixed in the can at all stages. I have
come to prefer quick drying varnish for this process as I'm an
impatient finisher....

----- Original Message -----
From: "Linda & Tom Hall" 
To:
Cc:
Sent:Sun, 16 Jul 2017 10:15:08 -0400
Subject:Re: [OldTools] Sap Wood

 Hi All,

 Just finished a Walnut coffee table designed around it’s sap wood.
 The base has no sap wood and is beautiful dark brown normal figured
Walnut.
 The top has highly figure pillowed grain with some sap wood edges for
contrast.
 I have used Watco Danish Oil on all surfaces and it POPS the grain, I
need a
 highly usable top surface and am looking to use a glossy oil spar
varnish finish
 on the top. Has anyone tried this?

 Tommy Hall
 Amesbury, MA
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------
 OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
 aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history,
usage,
 value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
 traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.

 To change your subscription options:
 https://oldtools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools

 To read the FAQ:
 https://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html

 OldTools archive: https://swingleydev.com/ot/

 OldTools@s...
262673 Brent A Kinsey <brentpmed@c...> 2017‑07‑16 Re: Sap Wood
Pictures posted for Tommy Hall.

http://galootcentral.com/component/option,com_copperminevis/Itemid,2/pl
ace,displayimage/album,lastup/cat,0/pos,0/">http://galootcentral.com/component/o
ption,com_copperminevis/Itemid,2/place,displayimage/album,lastup/cat,0/pos,0/

Detail of grain in the top.  Beautiful!

http://galootcentral.com/component/option,com_copperminevis/Itemid,2/pl
ace,displayimage/album,lastup/cat,0/pos,1/">http://galootcentral.com/component/o
ption,com_copperminevis/Itemid,2/place,displayimage/album,lastup/cat,0/pos,1/

Brent

Sent from my iPad
262677 "Linda & Tom Hall" <l-thall@c...> 2017‑07‑17 Re: Sap Wood
I’ll try this thinner varnish process, are thinners all the same for an oil spar
varnish?
In time I would like to put a more appropriate base on it.


From: bridger@b... 
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2017 12:33 PM
To: Linda & Tom Hall ; oldtools@s... 
Subject: Re: [OldTools] Sap Wood

Thin your oil based varnish of choice and apply it the same as the watco, lots
of thin coats.use fine sandpaper between coats. Unless gloss varnish, keep it
well mixed in the can at all stages. I have come to prefer quick drying varnish
for this process as I'm an impatient finisher....

Recent Bios FAQ