OldTools Archive

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262635 William Ghio <bghio@m...> 2017‑07‑08 Incannel gouges
So I foolishly paid the asking price. Three Marples incannel gouges laying on
the blanket, 14 - 15 inches long. One is pretty rusty but who knows what lies
under? I see chips on one edge and of course all are dull. Was it worth my three
dollars, total?

Turns out one is pitted to a degree that it will not be useful unless I grind it
back about an inch. The big one just needs a good honing. My question is about
the one w/ the chips. It had to be ground back about 1/16” to get past them.
It’s about 1/2” across and a pretty tight radius. How would you go about
regrinding it?

I have grinders, a drill press, a lathe and a bunch of slips. The slips are not
going to take this down in my lifetime. They are for honing. I have used
compounds round sticks in the four jaw chuck of the lathe, but again only for
honing. None of my sanding drums for the drill press are small enough altho I
can probably find some on-line. Any better ideas?

Bill
262636 Phil Schempf <philschempf@g...> 2017‑07‑08 Re: Incannel gouges
There is a note on that subject from Jim Thompson here:

http://contrib1.wkfinetools.com/jThompson/incannelGouge/incanGauge1.asp

Phil
262637 Brent Kinsey <brentpmed@c...> 2017‑07‑08 Re: Incannel gouges
Bill, you can get a shaped grinding stone for your hand cranked grinder. The
stone which come to a point on their face instead of a square face and use the
point back and forth to create the inside bevel then refine with stones.

Second option is the wave shaped diamond stone for sharpening gouges they make a
coarse and fine. Woodcraft carries them I think.

Lastly and quickest is a cutoff wheel in a dremel or in an (cough, Er, um...)
angle grinder held perpendicular to the desired bevel and sweep it back and
forth to create the bevel

Sent from my iPhone
Brent Kinsey
262638 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2017‑07‑08 Re: Incannel gouges
On 2017-07-08 10:56 AM, William Ghio wrote:
> Turns out one is pitted to a degree that it will not be useful unless I grind
it back about an inch.

Is there any reason you can't just hacksaw that off? It seems to me that 
would be quicker.

FWIW
Don

-- 
On Jan. 26, 2016, the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal (CHRT) ruled that the
Government of Canada racially discriminates against 165,000 First Nations
children.

“Until all of us have made it, none of us have made it.” - Rosemary Brown, the
first Black woman elected to a Canadian legislature
262639 scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> 2017‑07‑08 Re: Incannel gouges
>> Turns out one is pitted to a degree that it will not be useful unless 
>> I grind it back about an inch.
>
> Is there any reason you can't just hacksaw that off? It seems to me 
> that would be quicker.


   If you could, the gouge would need to be rehardend and tempered out.
A hacksaw should not cut a chisel, or if it does, barely barely barely.

  Gluing sandpaper to a dowel helps hone it up though.

  You still have to grind the steel initially,
(auto parts stores sell dozens of sizes of small grinding wheels mounted 
to 1/4" shafts for a couple bucks each)
but once you have ground it, sandpaper on the right size dowel is your 
friend.

And 3 paring gouges for 3 bucks? Yeah you really suck Bill :)
    yours Scott

-- 
*******************************
    Scott Grandstaff
    Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
    scottg@s...
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html
262640 William Ghio <bghio@m...> 2017‑07‑08 Re: Incannel gouges
> On Jul 8, 2017, at 1:09 PM, Brent Kinsey  wrote:
> 
> Bill, you can get a shaped grinding stone for your hand cranked grinder. The
stone which come to a point on their face instead of a square face and use the
point back and forth to create the inside bevel then refine with stones.
> 
> On Jul 8, 2017, at 1:12 PM, Brent Kinsey  wrote:
> 
> And Bill I have a number of small rotary stones for the drill press. If you
will tell me approximate diameter I will see if one will fit and send it to you

The Porch is always a good place to look for an answer. My father was a
machinist and about 30 years ago he gave me a tool chest full of things he did
not use any longer. Brent’s second msg rang the bell. Sure enough, in that tool
chest was a rotary stone for a drill press. And best of all, it is conical in
shape so covers the range of diameters I need. It is a bit fine for this task,
but a little time is going to work wonders on these gouges.

I also have one of those little 1 inch belt grinders. Move off the platen where
you can use the slack belt and it wrapped the pitted gouge just perfect. A few
seconds and the last 1/4 inch of the gouge is pit free. Ran up the back quickly
for about another 1 1/2 inches to keep a linear surface and Bob’s your Uncle.

Thanks all,

Bill
262641 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2017‑07‑08 Re: Incannel gouges
Make it out cannel
Ed Minch
262642 David Nighswander <wishingstarfarm663@m...> 2017‑07‑09 Re: Incannel gouges
Turn or whittle a dowel to the right diameter to fit the area to be shaped or
polished. Cut a slot down the center. Slip the end of a strip of emery cloth
into the slot and wrap the tail clockwise around the dowel. Mount it on a
mandrel, clamp it in a chuck, or if you are really into it wrap a bow string
around it like a fire starter.  With 60 grit cloth it will rough grind. Step
through the grits.
Sharp grit cuts faster and cooler. Emery is cheap. Change it often.
262644 John Ruth <johnrruth@h...> 2017‑07‑10 Re: Incannel gouges
GG's:


An incannel gouge seems to be an interesting piece of geometry.  Just exactly
what is the ideal geometric shape of the bezel?


My view is that the ideal shape is an annular section of a cone.  I base this
upon observation of an amazing tailed apprentice once used in pattern shops. It
had several different water-mist-cooled stones on various spindles.  There were
two conical stones which were for sharpening incannel gouges, at least that was
what I surmised from examining the tool rests.


(I saw this at a used machine tool dealer about 25 years ago.  The machine
looked like it weighed a hundreds of pounds. It definitely took up beaucoup
floor space.  I passed it up.)


Sharpening with an abrasive rod of the same radius as the gouge, held at an
angle, will give a different bevel angle at the sides, no?


You could get around this by using an abrasive rod with a radius smaller than
the radius of the gouge, and manipulating it to get an approximately conical
bezel.


Whatever works, works - perhaps I'm being too mathematical (geometrical?) here.


John Ruth
262645 David Nighswander <wishingstarfarm663@m...> 2017‑07‑10 Re: Incannel gouges
Make the sanding arbor to the proper shape and fit it to the conical area that
is to be sharpened. All the rest is the same.

On Jul 9, 2017 11:17 PM, John Ruth  wrote:

GG's:


An incannel gouge seems to be an interesting piece of geometry.  Just exactly
what is the ideal geometric shape of the bezel?


My view is that the ideal shape is an annular section of a cone.  I base this
upon observation of an amazing tailed apprentice once used in pattern shops. It
had several different water-mist-cooled stones on various spindles.  There were
two conical stones which were for sharpening incannel gouges, at least that was
what I surmised from examining the tool rests.


(I saw this at a used machine tool dealer about 25 years ago.  The machine
looked like it weighed a hundreds of pounds. It definitely took up beaucoup
floor space.  I passed it up.)


Sharpening with an abrasive rod of the same radius as the gouge, held at an
angle, will give a different bevel angle at the sides, no?


You could get around this by using an abrasive rod with a radius smaller than
the radius of the gouge, and manipulating it to get an approximately conical
bezel.


Whatever works, works - perhaps I'm being too mathematical (geometrical?) here.


John Ruth
262661 "Linda & Tom Hall" <l-thall@c...> 2017‑07‑13 Re: Incannel gouges
GG’s

I’ve only used incannel  gouges a couple times.  The first time was the quarter
round cope joint in
early window sash.  You occasionally see a chisel for making this joint come up
for sale.
My question about the inchannel, is the back suppose to be absolutely flat like
a bench chisel?
The chisel is crushing the wood on the inside curve and I could never get knack
of using the chisels.
Any help.

Tommy Hall
Amesbury, MA
262662 Brent Kinsey <brentpmed@c...> 2017‑07‑13 Re: Incannel gouges
Tommy, 
I know you know this already, but I will reiterate: 
Sharp fixes everything. 

The backs on my incannel gouges are polished. Just at the business end for an
inch or so just because it made it easier for me to get the edge I wanted.
The challenge I faced when I first did them (a matched set of 12 vintage
Greenlee firmer gouges from MOfA) was not creating a tiny bevel on the back. If
it is rounded over at all it makes it hard to pare with them. So in that sense,
yes the back should be flat along its length to the edge. Now I'm not talking
about the whole 11" being flat, just at the last inch or two.

I then turned to the inside bevel with slipstones and a strop on a dowel rod. 

The next issue: if yours are the thicker firmer gouges like mine,  they are (for
me anyway) harder to pare with than a thin paring gouge. The thicker gouge wants
to lift the chips higher than the thin chisel and they break off sometimes
lifting wood ahead of them.

I suppose I could decrease the angle they are sharpened at and that would help,
but I kept mine fairly stout for the occasional chopping. I do have one thin
paring gouge which pares very nicely but it is too wide a sweep for most coping
work.

Brent

Sent from my iPhone
Brent Kinsey
262663 paul womack <pwomack@p...> 2017‑07‑13 Re: Incannel gouges
Linda & Tom Hall wrote:
> GG’s
>
> I’ve only used incannel  gouges a couple times.  The first time was the
quarter round cope joint in
> early window sash.  You occasionally see a chisel for making this joint come
up for sale.
> My question about the inchannel, is the back suppose to be absolutely flat
like a bench chisel?

It's OK folks, I got this.

Yes.

  BugBear

P.S. It's a paring chisel, usual logic applies.
262664 "Linda & Tom Hall" <l-thall@c...> 2017‑07‑13 Re: Incannel gouges
Hi Brent,

"The thicker gouge wants to lift the chips higher than the thin chisel and 
they break off sometimes lifting wood ahead of them. "

Yes, that is the answer I was looking for.  It's been more than thirty years 
since I've made Georgian sash or paneling, but the
memory sticks.  I hired it out after that!  Now there is a router bit that 
can cut the quarter round cope.

Tommy Hall

-----Original Message----- 
From: Brent Kinsey
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 9:30 PM
To: Linda & Tom Hall
Cc: oldtools@s...
Subject: Re: [OldTools] Incannel gouges

Tommy,
I know you know this already, but I will reiterate:
Sharp fixes everything.

The backs on my incannel gouges are polished. Just at the business end for 
an inch or so just because it made it easier for me to get the edge I 
wanted.
The challenge I faced when I first did them (a matched set of 12 vintage 
Greenlee firmer gouges from MOfA) was not creating a tiny bevel on the back. 
If it is rounded over at all it makes it hard to pare with them. So in that 
sense, yes the back should be flat along its length to the edge. Now I'm not 
talking about the whole 11" being flat, just at the last inch or two.

I then turned to the inside bevel with slipstones and a strop on a dowel 
rod.

The next issue: if yours are the thicker firmer gouges like mine,  they are 
(for me anyway) harder to pare with than a thin paring gouge. The thicker 
gouge wants to lift the chips higher than the thin chisel and they break off 
sometimes lifting wood ahead of them.

I suppose I could decrease the angle they are sharpened at and that would 
help, but I kept mine fairly stout for the occasional chopping. I do have 
one thin paring gouge which pares very nicely but it is too wide a sweep for 
most coping work.

Brent

Sent from my iPhone
Brent Kinsey

Recent Bios FAQ