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261680 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2017‑02‑16 Octagon
GGG

I am working on some vanity legs that are turned from blank made of 8 pie pieces
glued together.  At its fattest, the leg is almost 3” across.

My question - I have the wedge shaped pie pieces cut (with the help of
electrickery) and now I have to glue them together.  The 6” long sample that I
cut demonstrates that this ain’t easy getting al the pieces to point towards the
center so I am worried about the 28” lengths of the full legs.  Does anyone have
a glue-up trick?  I am thinking hose clamps for clamping, but first have to get
all the points in the same place.  I have thought of gluing it half at a time,
then the two halves, but no.

To complicate things, there is a veneer piece between each wedge, so what a mess

Something like this:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ruby1638/32096342704/in/dateposted-public/

Ed Minch
261681 <gtgrouch@r...> 2017‑02‑16 Re: Octagon
Is the veneer already cut so it is the same dimension as the pie slices?

If so, I'd use black plastic tape wrapped four or five times around. Start in
the middle, wrap once, then pull each wrap tighter until the tape breaks on the
last wrap.

Easier to do than it is to describe.

Gary Katsanis
Albion New York, USA
---- Ed Minch  wrote: 

=============
GGG

I am working on some vanity legs that are turned from blank made of 8 pie pieces
glued together.  At its fattest, the leg is almost 3” across.

My question - I have the wedge shaped pie pieces cut (with the help of
electrickery) and now I have to glue them together.  The 6” long sample that I
cut demonstrates that this ain’t easy getting al the pieces to point towards the
center so I am worried about the 28” lengths of the full legs.  Does anyone have
a glue-up trick?  I am thinking hose clamps for clamping, but first have to get
all the points in the same place.  I have thought of gluing it half at a time,
then the two halves, but no.

To complicate things, there is a veneer piece between each wedge, so what a mess

Something like this:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ruby1638/32096342704/in/dateposted-public/

Ed Minch




------------------------------------------------------------------------
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aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
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traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.

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261682 Phil Schempf <philschempf@g...> 2017‑02‑16 Re: Octagon
Ed-

Not a lot of help here, but a couple of thoughts.  When I'm clamping
irregular shapes I use surgical rubber tubing, most often something about
1/4" in diameter.  Start off with a few wraps in an open spiral, enough to
hold things roughly in position and then get the pieces lined up the way
you want them.  Then add more wraps until it is squoze to the degree
desired.  The more wraps you add the greater the pressure.  Squeeze out may
glue bits of the tubing to your project, but they are easily scraped off
and the worst aspect is the possible loss of the tubing for future
projects, but it isn't too dear.  Doesn't damage the project either, like a
metal clamp may.

This also seems like a project where another set of hands would be useful.
If you have some one with a bit of handiness that you could draft, it may
get things together before the glue sets.

Speaking of which, I'd pick a glue with a longer open time to allow for
fiddling.  But not too much ;-).

Phil
261683 <gtgrouch@r...> 2017‑02‑16 Re: Octagon
I forgot to mention: when the middle is wrapped, then do each end.

The tape is stretchy and will pull very tight.

YMMV, Gary K
---- gtgrouch@r... wrote: 

=============
Is the veneer already cut so it is the same dimension as the pie slices?

If so, I'd use black plastic tape wrapped four or five times around. Start in
the middle, wrap once, then pull each wrap tighter until the tape breaks on the
last wrap.

Easier to do than it is to describe.

Gary Katsanis
Albion New York, USA
---- Ed Minch  wrote: 

=============
GGG

I am working on some vanity legs that are turned from blank made of 8 pie pieces
glued together.  At its fattest, the leg is almost 3” across.

My question - I have the wedge shaped pie pieces cut (with the help of
electrickery) and now I have to glue them together.  The 6” long sample that I
cut demonstrates that this ain’t easy getting al the pieces to point towards the
center so I am worried about the 28” lengths of the full legs.  Does anyone have
a glue-up trick?  I am thinking hose clamps for clamping, but first have to get
all the points in the same place.  I have thought of gluing it half at a time,
then the two halves, but no.

To complicate things, there is a veneer piece between each wedge, so what a mess

Something like this:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ruby1638/32096342704/in/dateposted-public/

Ed Minch




------------------------------------------------------------------------
OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.

To change your subscription options:
https://oldtools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools

To read the FAQ:
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OldTools archive: https://swingleydev.com/ot/

OldTools@s...

------------------------------------------------------------------------
OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.

To change your subscription options:
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To read the FAQ:
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OldTools@s...
261684 Nichael Cramer <nichael@s...> 2017‑02‑16 Re: Octagon
Just to make sure:
By "octagon" I assume you mean a tapered cylinder, initially 
consisting of 8 wedge-shaped slices
(i.e. the outer surface is round, not with 8-sided flats) Correct?

Maybe spending time on some kind of jig might help.

For an "external" jig a "tapered trough" into which the leg-wedges 
could lie during glue-up
would be ideal --but a huge amount of work to get it right.  So maybe 
a number of rings
(say an inch tall) to place along the length of the leg might work better.

Or maybe an "internal jig".
  That is, assuming the leg-wedges are "pointy" on the inside (that is,
the inner-most edges are all attempting to come together at a single 
point) perhaps
it might be helpful to shave the "pointy" end off of each wedge, and 
form an interior
octagon  Then there could be octagonal shaped core piece, which could either
serve as removable "jig".  Or the wedges could then be individually 
glued to the
new octagonal center piece and the complete leg built up in this way.

I'm thinking maybe gluing it up in steps might be helpful as well,
That is, hold all 8 pieces together, but initially only glue each pair of
neighboring pieces together forming four pieces.  Then glue each
resulting quarter into halves, and then finally the whole leg.

But in any case I'm betting however you do it, getting it perfect 
"the first time"
is going to be darn near impossible.  So if I were doing it I would count on
there being some final cleanup/trim to bring it all true at the end.

Anyway, just thinking out loud.  And, as others have said, it would
be easier to draw tthis han explain.  In any case, hope there's 
anything useful here.

N



Ed Minch wrote:
261686 Thomas Conroy 2017‑02‑16 Re: Octagon
Ed Minch wrote:

"I am working on some vanity legs that are turned from blank made of 8 pie
pieces glued together.... I have the wedge shaped pie pieces cut (with the help
of electrickery) and now I have to glue them together.  The 6? long sample that
I cut demonstrates that this ain?t easy getting al the pieces to point towards
the center so I am worried about the 28? lengths of the full legs.  Does anyone
have a glue-up trick?"

Do all the wedge-shaped pieces have to meet perfectly at the center? The meeting
point will be well buried in the solid center of the leg, won't it? What matters
for appearance is the permeter. I think you could be quite a way off and still
present a respectable appearance.

Tom Cpnroy
261804 Thomas Conroy 2017‑02‑16 Re: Octagon
Ed Minch wrote:

"I am working on some vanity legs that are turned from blank made of 8 pie
pieces glued together.... I have the wedge shaped pie pieces cut (with the help
of electrickery) and now I have to glue them together.  The 6? long sample that
I cut demonstrates that this ain?t easy getting al the pieces to point towards
the center so I am worried about the 28? lengths of the full legs.  Does anyone
have a glue-up trick?"

Do all the wedge-shaped pieces have to meet perfectly at the center? The meeting
point will be well buried in the solid center of the leg, won't it? What matters
for appearance is the permeter. I think you could be quite a way off and still
present a respectable appearance.

Tom Cpnroy
261688 "David & AnnTardiff" <tardiff13@v...> 2017‑02‑17 Re: Octagon
If you can plan ahead, knowing where it will be turned down....

Use some small brads, drive through the veneer and then clip them off, 
leaving just an eighth proud.
These will prevent sliding while clamping with straps, ropes, tape, 
whatever....

-----Original Message----- 
From: Ed Minch
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 3:16 PM
To: old tools new server
Subject: [OldTools] Octagon

GGG

I am working on some vanity legs that are turned from blank made of 8 pie 
pieces glued together.  At its fattest, the leg is almost 3” across.

My question - I have the wedge shaped pie pieces cut (with the help of 
electrickery) and now I have to glue them together.  The 6” long sample that 
I cut demonstrates that this ain’t easy getting al the pieces to point 
towards the center so I am worried about the 28” lengths of the full legs. 
Does anyone have a glue-up trick?  I am thinking hose clamps for clamping, 
but first have to get all the points in the same place.  I have thought of 
gluing it half at a time, then the two halves, but no.

To complicate things, there is a veneer piece between each wedge, so what a 
mess

Something like this:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ruby1638/32096342704/in/dateposted-public/

Ed Minch




------------------------------------------------------------------------
OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.

To change your subscription options:
https://oldtools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools

To read the FAQ:
https://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html

OldTools archive: https://swingleydev.com/ot/

OldTools@s...

David & Ann Tardiff
261689 Peter Marquis-Kyle <peter@m...> 2017‑02‑17 Re: Octagon
Would it help if you put a small dowel in the center (centre, Jeff) of 
the assembly? You would need to rip a small strip off the pointy edge of 
each pie slice (equal to the radius of the dowel). The dowel might make 
it easier to get all the pieces into place before you apply the rubber 
bands or hose clamps.

Disclaimer: I've never done this, so apply the appropriate discount to 
the purchase price for this advice...

-- 

Peter Marquis-Kyle
www.marquis-kyle.com.au
261691 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2017‑02‑17 Re: Octagon
All

Thanks for the myriad ideas.

I cut my sample from a scrap of 2 X 4 and the resultant piece is 2-7/8” across -
about the right size for my final piece.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ruby1638/32819574531/in/dateposted-public/

The pieces are just inconsistent enough in size that you can see that when the
outside surfaces are lined up, the centers don’t meet.  The three things that
seem to make the most sense are 1) make them as consistent as possible, 2) cut
the points off and put a small (1/4”?) dowel up the middle so they want to only
go in so far, and 2) Tom Conroys sage advice:
261692 Bill Webber <ol2lrus@v...> 2017‑02‑17 Re: Octagon
The picture you show doesn't show the veneer edge.  Also, does it matter 
if the center lines up?

This looks like one of those dilemmas I often get into where the worry 
is more trouble than the actual solution.  I'm thinking it is the 
outside that is  important.  I would do as some suggested and do a dry 
run without glue, testing surgical hose or stretchy masking tape as a 
clamp around and around the whole assembly.  Cut off the points if they 
interfere with the outside alignment.  You can always smooth out small 
dis-alignment after the glue dries and no one would ever know the 
difference.  Gluing up a half section makes sense at some level but 
practically it is difficult with the kind of clamps we use most.

I doubt my comments are particularly helpful, but it's easy to throw in 
a comment on someone else's problem. :-)

Bill W.
In Beautiful downtown Nottingham, PA
261693 Chuck Taylor 2017‑02‑17 Re: Octagon
Ed,

Seems to me that it might be easier to glue it up "in the square", then trim it
to an octagon. Woodturners generally do their glue-ups first, then turn the
result round.

Chuck Taylor
north of Seattle
261694 Kirk Eppler <eppler.kirk@g...> 2017‑02‑17 Re: Octagon
On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 6:57 PM, Chuck Taylor via OldTools <
oldtools@s...> wrote:

>
> Seems to me that it might be easier to glue it up "in the square", then
> trim it to an octagon. Woodturners generally do their glue-ups first, then
> turn the result round.



Never done this, but what about making a square jig of known dimensions for
the ends, and slide the pieces in, then jam them outward til they hit the
walls.  If sized correctly, it seems like they'd have to be true.
-- 
Kirk Eppler in Half Moon Bay, CA, but not really
261696 "Frank Filippone" <red735il@g...> 2017‑02‑17 Re: Octagon
There is a router bit called a birds' beak????? That allows for a locking
M+T in each piece.. think floorboards in the round.....

See this for the idea......
http://www.rockler.com/how-to/specialized-router-bits-birds-mouth-multi-angl
e-bits-easy-bird-house-building/

Now all you need is a human powered router......

But truly, would this not be easier as a turning?  Glue it up in the
"square" turn it round....??????

Frank Filippone
Red735il@g...
261697 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2017‑02‑17 Re: Octagon
On 2017-02-16 1:16 PM, Ed Minch wrote:
> GGG
>
> I am working on some vanity legs that are turned from blank made of 8 pie
pieces glued together.  At its fattest, the leg is almost 3” across.
>
> My question - I have the wedge shaped pie pieces cut (with the help of
electrickery) and now I have to glue them together.  The 6” long sample that I
cut demonstrates that this ain’t easy getting al the pieces to point towards the
center so I am worried about the 28” lengths of the full legs.  Does anyone have
a glue-up trick?  I am thinking hose clamps for clamping, but first have to get
all the points in the same place.  I have thought of gluing it half at a time,
then the two halves, but no.
>
> To complicate things, there is a veneer piece between each wedge, so what a
mess
>
> Something like this:
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ruby1638/32096342704/in/dateposted-public/
>
> Ed Minch
>
Never done this - and wouldn't, likely. Doing the glue-up all at once is 
likely to be a PITA, even with the masking tape roll-up trick and 
surgical tubing.
I count 8 pieces + 8 veneers with 2 surfaces each = way too many glue 
surfaces to be brought together all at once. Life is too short. Open 
time too.

A more reasonable approach would have been to glue up 4 square rods with 
veneer between, then cut on the diagonals, insert veneers, and reglue. 
BUT you can still proceed as though you'd done that, more or less. Glue 
up adjacent pairs with veneers between, making square rods. Then proceed 
more or less as above ... without panic.

FWIW
Don

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