OldTools Archive
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260194 | Philip Yarra <philip.yarra@i...> | 2016‑10‑23 | Chisels galore... and a question about paring gouges |
Hi all, *Short version:* I bought a lot of chisels. Arguably, too many. You can see the whole shebang here: https://goo.gl/photos/GzzumFGFJmbYaGxs5 (warning, possible drive-by gloat, if you like chisels) *Long version:* I got a heads-up on an upcoming garage sale. The photos seemed to show a lot of interesting looking chisels. I contacted the seller asking if I could come see before the actual garage sale, and to my surprise, he agreed. So I trundled off to Mount Evelyn just as soon as I could, and oh my, there were about 60 chisels, and I wanted all of them. However I settled on about 40. A lot of them aren't that old, but most are in great condition - Marples paring chisels, EA Berg carving chisels, Henry Taylor cranked paring chisels, Ashley Iles and Sorby turning chisels and scrapers, a few other bits and pieces... all useful stuff! And at the price, well worth it. A lot of what appears to be rust spots turned out to be grease, which cleaned off with a little eucalyptus oil. Many of the tools still have their factory ground bevel on them. There were also a number of long in-cannel gouges (I assume these are paring gouges?) and four cranked in-cannel gouges. You can see them here https://goo.gl/photos/jSz3yjuPwoftKHNH9 and https://goo.gl/photos/7oeShFsWtoh8VQqx8 and my question is: what are they actually useful for? A lot of books suggest in-cannel gouges are good for paring concave shapes, for example in cutting the end of mouldings to butt them together. I can sort of see how the straight in-cannel gouges could be useful there, though it's not something I've ever needed to do, and for the small number of times I'm ever likely to need to, it seems like a coping saw would do the job equally well. For the really fine gouge - 1/8" - I just can't see it being useful in that context either. What puzzles me more is: what are the cranked in-cannel gouges useful for? You can't get your weight in line with the blade, so probably not useful for cutting ends of mouldings across grain. The only application I can come up with is in cutting the pencil well on the old school desks. So... can anyone tell me their application? I have seen these referred to as pattern-makers tools, but I'm interested to know what sort of uses they have outside of that rather specialised field. If anyone is curious, the four cranked in-cannel gouges are a pair of Stormonts, and two Marples (but not a pair, as such). Since I can't really see an application for them, I'm wondering if I should move them on, perhaps selling them to offset the cost of the haul. The haul also included the heaviest Dawn sash clamp I have ever lifted, some neat little bronze plane/shaves, some pin punches, a lock mortice chisel, an unknown Japanese chisel, and an un-used set of Marples bench chisels. These may not be from the golden age of English chisels, but I reckon they're going to be a good user set. You can see them all here: https://goo.gl/photos/GzzumFGFJmbYaGxs5 Cheers from sunny (and alternately rainy) Melbourne, Philip. |
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260195 | Dwight Beebe <dwb1124@g...> | 2016‑10‑23 | Re: Chisels galore... and a question about paring gouges |
On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 10:19 PM, Philip Yarra < philip.yarra@i...> wrote: > Hi all, > > *Short version:* I bought a lot of chisels. Arguably, too many. Whoa, very nice find, Philip. I wondered what that unusual sucking sound was. It all becomes clear. Regards, Dwight |
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260196 | Michael Blair <branson2@s...> | 2016‑10‑23 | Re: Chisels galore... and a question about paring gouges |
> I wondered what that unusual sucking sound was. It all becomes clear. The sucking sound was heard all the way to California, Dwight. Mike in Woodland |
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260197 | Peter Marquis-Kyle <peter@m...> | 2016‑10‑23 | Re: Chisels galore... and a question about paring gouges |
On 23/10/2016 12:19 PM, Philip Yarra wrote: > what are they actually useful for? A lot of books suggest in-cannel > gouges are good for paring concave shapes, for example in cutting the > end of mouldings to butt them together. I can sort of see how the > straight in-cannel gouges could be useful there, though it's not > something I've ever needed to do, and for the small number of times I'm > ever likely to need to, it seems like a coping saw would do the job > equally well. For the really fine gouge - 1/8" - I just can't see it > being useful in that context either. That's a wonderful trove, Phillip. As to those cranked paring chisels and gouges, I expect other more knowledgeable galoots will explain their use, but I know they will mention the trade of patternmaking. Peter Marquis-Kyle |
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260198 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2016‑10‑23 | Re: Chisels galore... and a question about paring gouges |
If you ”settled” on 40, how many were there? Ed Minch |
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260199 | dcarr10760@g... | 2016‑10‑23 | Re: Chisels galore... and a question about paring gouges |
Wow, nice pile! The in-cannel gouges were popular with pattern-makers, since the bevel being on the inside, the reference side as you pare leaves a cut of a known radius. I work in a building behind one of these sprawling junk/antique shops and they, from time to time have old casting patterns displayed and I always look at them. They're interesting, but honestly, I don't see much evidence of use of these chisels, or core box planes for that matter. The castings that these are the right tool for must be large, I think, like big machine bases or farming implements. But I have bunches. The cranked neck chisels are great for running a hollow indefinitely as the handle doesn't get in the way. Mine are fractional radii, so are useful for setting the new fangled hinge butts into a mortise on a door frame so I don't have to use a tailed-Tasmanian devil r--ter. I have a pair that fit the profile of my sash planes, making coping easier. So they might be worth hanging on to. I think they fall into the category of tools that don't get much use, but when you need them, they are indispensable. I'm convinced this has always been the case as full sets of barely used Bucks often turn up for money that is nowhere as dear as a comparable matched sets of bench chisels. Have fun cleaning and sharpening! David Carroll Sent from my iPad |
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260201 | Don Schwartz <dks@t...> | 2016‑10‑23 | Re: Chisels galore... and a question about paring gouges |
On 2016-10-23 3:04 AM, Michael Blair wrote: > The sucking sound was heard all the way to California, Dwight. > > Mike in Woodland Heck, I heard it here in Calgary. Don -- Let's all get normal at the luau - 'Frizz' Fuller |
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260200 | Christopher Dunn <christopherdunn123@g...> | 2016‑10‑23 | Re: Chisels galore... and a question about paring gouges |
Galoots I saw some Buck Brothers crank neck pattern maker’s chisels on the internet and was pondering the cranked handle question myself the other day. The best I could come up with is they were meant to cut a groove but provide clearance for your hand. Lie Nielson has a cranked handle float, and it says "the cranked-neck design gives good access to recessed surfaces". I own a straight handle and cranked handle float, and I don't use the cranked handle often. To cut with the straight handle, you apply a force along the length of the tool which gives you a smooth straight cut. Typically I apply a little pressure with my off hand to keep the tool flat against the work. With the cranked handle you're always apply a diagonal force with you one hand (what's the opposite of the off hand, the on hand?), which wants to tip the tool up. To keep the tool against the work, you need to apply a lot more force with the off hand. As your arm extends the forces seem to vary, and it's hard to keep the bottom of the cut flat. I think the last time I used the cranked handle was to clean up the bottom of the groove for of some sliding dovetails on a table I made for our dog. Thanks, Chris PS: good find on the chisels |
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260204 | Mark Pfeifer <markpfeifer@i...> | 2016‑10‑23 | Re: Chisels galore... and a question about paring gouges |
I can't tell if this has been answered (cursed new iphone OS and how it lumps emails!) Patternmaker would use the cranked incannel in much the same way as any woodworker would use a gouge: removal of waste. I'm not a patternmaker but I've met a few. And I don't believe they viewed these as an option for making flutes only, but general waste removal cross and with grain, when making the wood mold. The crank allows you to work your new surface parallel to the original surface, without stressing about depth. The length of the iron allows for this, and makes it a lot easier than doing it with a bent or straight gouge. (Anyone whose done deeper relief carving knows what I'm talking about). I have one and only one and I've still not decided whether it's useful to me. But I don't have any traditional hollows and rounds......if I did I can totally see using it to pre shape flutes before going to a round..... And I think I just found my excuse for buying a couple of rounds..... :) |
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260205 | John Ruth <johnrruth@h...> | 2016‑10‑23 | Re: Chisels galore... and a question about paring gouges |
Phil, I honestly think this ranks with the best single-vendor, single-purchase "hauls" ever described on the Porch!!! (Note the adjectives; people have come back from auctions, Brimfield, etc. with more.) Most Galoots need years, maybe decades , to accumulate a grouping of chisels of that quality level. You may never see an opportunity like that again in your whole life! I'm happy for you! John Ruth Sent from my iPhone |
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260206 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2016‑10‑23 | Re: Chisels galore... and a question about paring gouges |
On Oct 23, 2016, at 11:20 AM, Mark Pfeifer |
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260207 | scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> | 2016‑10‑23 | Re: Chisels galore... and a question about paring gouges |
Wicked driveby Even 40 years ago when they were still available from Silvo Hardware (who was still selling NOS), this was a bucket of money's worth of chisels. Crank necks were invented for those long straight cuts that you need to work the far side of. Long smooth bottom grooves mostly. Patternmaking certainly, but other jobs too. A funny thing. Time marches on. Originally the paring gouges were the most dear. They were harder to find by far. But now, most of the paring chisels are long gone, and many more paring gouges remain on the market. So hang onto those chisels no matter what. Unless you get bored of them and then call me. Address below and.......... I am in the phone book. :) yours Scott -- ******************************* Scott Grandstaff Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca 96039 scottg@s... http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html |
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260208 | scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> | 2016‑10‑23 | Re: Chisels galore... and a question about paring gouges |
Oh PS Somebody knew what they were doing with the little brass spokeshaves. Out of 5 of them there is only one flat bottom. Using them very frequently, there is little use for the flat bottom. Round front to back see the most use by far, but the spoon bottoms find meaningful work in my shop too. And I had never seen large "Eskiltuna" carving chisels. ever yours again Scott -- ******************************* Scott Grandstaff Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca 96039 scottg@s... http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html |
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260210 | Dragon List <dragon01list@g...> | 2016‑10‑25 | Re: Chisels galore... and a question about paring gouges |
feeling very, very jealous of the berg carving chisels. those are gorgeous, and berg has some of the best steel around. nice haul. best, bill felton, ca On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 12:08 PM, scott grandstaff |
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260250 | Philip Yarra <philip.yarra@i...> | 2016‑11‑01 | Re: Chisels galore... and a question about paring gouges |
Thanks gents. I really feel I need to start doing some carving now, just to justify having such lovely carving tools. And Scott, agreed, the little brass spokeshaves are pretty darn cool. Looking at the stamp on the box - Aldon - finds a bunch of these on the internet: http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?c=&p=32681&cat=1,50230&ap=1 though the fact I have 5 might indicate I have most of two sets jammed together? Whatever the case, nifty little things, and at $5 for the 5... well you can't really go wrong for $1 each, now can you? Cheers, Philip. |
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