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260194 Philip Yarra <philip.yarra@i...> 2016‑10‑23 Chisels galore... and a question about paring gouges
Hi all,


*Short version:* I bought a lot of chisels. Arguably, too many. You can 
see the whole shebang here:

https://goo.gl/photos/GzzumFGFJmbYaGxs5 (warning, possible drive-by 
gloat, if you like chisels)


*Long version:*

I got a heads-up on an upcoming garage sale. The photos seemed to show a 
lot of interesting looking chisels. I contacted the seller asking if I 
could come see before the actual garage sale, and to my surprise, he 
agreed. So I trundled off to Mount Evelyn just as soon as I could, and 
oh my, there were about 60 chisels, and I wanted all of them. However I 
settled on about 40. A lot of them aren't that old, but most are in 
great condition - Marples paring chisels, EA Berg carving chisels, Henry 
Taylor cranked paring chisels, Ashley Iles and Sorby turning chisels and 
scrapers, a few other bits and pieces... all useful stuff! And at the 
price, well worth it. A lot of what appears to be rust spots turned out 
to be grease, which cleaned off with a little eucalyptus oil. Many of 
the tools still have their factory ground bevel on them.


There were also a number of long in-cannel gouges (I assume these are 
paring gouges?) and four cranked in-cannel gouges. You can see them here 
https://goo.gl/photos/jSz3yjuPwoftKHNH9 and 
https://goo.gl/photos/7oeShFsWtoh8VQqx8 and my question is: what are 
they actually useful for? A lot of books suggest in-cannel gouges are 
good for paring concave shapes, for example in cutting the end of 
mouldings to butt them together. I can sort of see how the straight 
in-cannel gouges could be useful there, though it's not something I've 
ever needed to do, and for the small number of times I'm ever likely to 
need to, it seems like a coping saw would do the job equally well. For 
the really fine gouge - 1/8" - I just can't see it being useful in that 
context either.


What puzzles me more is: what are the cranked in-cannel gouges useful 
for? You can't get your weight in line with the blade, so probably not 
useful for cutting ends of mouldings across grain. The only application 
I can come up with is in cutting the pencil well on the old school 
desks. So... can anyone tell me their application? I have seen these 
referred to as pattern-makers tools, but I'm interested to know what 
sort of uses they have outside of that rather specialised field.


If anyone is curious, the four cranked in-cannel gouges are a pair of 
Stormonts, and two Marples (but not a pair, as such). Since I can't 
really see an application for them, I'm wondering if I should move them 
on, perhaps selling them to offset the cost of the haul.


The haul also included the heaviest Dawn sash clamp I have ever lifted, 
some neat little bronze plane/shaves, some pin punches, a lock mortice 
chisel, an unknown Japanese chisel, and an un-used set of Marples bench 
chisels. These may not be from the golden age of English chisels, but I 
reckon they're going to be a good user set. You can see them all here: 
https://goo.gl/photos/GzzumFGFJmbYaGxs5


Cheers from sunny (and alternately rainy) Melbourne,

Philip.
260195 Dwight Beebe <dwb1124@g...> 2016‑10‑23 Re: Chisels galore... and a question about paring gouges
On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 10:19 PM, Philip Yarra <
philip.yarra@i...> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> *Short version:* I bought a lot of chisels. Arguably, too many.


Whoa, very nice find, Philip.  I wondered what that unusual sucking sound
was.  It all becomes clear.

Regards,

Dwight
260196 Michael Blair <branson2@s...> 2016‑10‑23 Re: Chisels galore... and a question about paring gouges
>   I wondered what that unusual sucking sound was.  It all becomes clear. 

The sucking sound was heard all the way to California, Dwight.  

Mike in Woodland
260197 Peter Marquis-Kyle <peter@m...> 2016‑10‑23 Re: Chisels galore... and a question about paring gouges
On 23/10/2016 12:19 PM, Philip Yarra wrote:
> what are they actually useful for? A lot of books suggest in-cannel
> gouges are good for paring concave shapes, for example in cutting the
> end of mouldings to butt them together. I can sort of see how the
> straight in-cannel gouges could be useful there, though it's not
> something I've ever needed to do, and for the small number of times I'm
> ever likely to need to, it seems like a coping saw would do the job
> equally well. For the really fine gouge - 1/8" - I just can't see it
> being useful in that context either.

That's a wonderful trove, Phillip.

As to those cranked paring chisels and gouges, I expect other more 
knowledgeable galoots will explain their use, but I know they will 
mention the trade of patternmaking.

Peter Marquis-Kyle
260198 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2016‑10‑23 Re: Chisels galore... and a question about paring gouges
If you ”settled” on 40, how many were there?

Ed Minch
260199 dcarr10760@g... 2016‑10‑23 Re: Chisels galore... and a question about paring gouges
Wow, nice pile!

The in-cannel gouges were popular with pattern-makers, since the bevel being on
the inside, the reference side as you pare leaves a cut of a known radius.  I
work in a building behind one of these sprawling junk/antique shops and they,
from time to time have old casting patterns displayed and I always look at them.
They're interesting, but honestly, I don't see much evidence of use of these
chisels, or core box planes for that matter.  The castings that these are the
right tool for must be large, I think, like big machine bases or farming
implements.

But I have bunches.  The cranked neck chisels are great for running a hollow
indefinitely as the handle doesn't get in the way.  Mine are fractional radii,
so are useful for setting the new fangled hinge butts into a mortise on a door
frame so I don't have to use a tailed-Tasmanian devil r--ter.

I have a pair that fit the profile of my sash planes, making coping easier.

So they might be worth hanging on to.  I think they fall into the category of
tools that don't get much use, but when you need them, they are indispensable.

I'm convinced this has always been the case as full sets of barely used Bucks
often turn up for money that is nowhere as dear as a comparable matched sets of
bench chisels.

Have fun cleaning and sharpening!

David Carroll

Sent from my iPad
260201 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2016‑10‑23 Re: Chisels galore... and a question about paring gouges
On 2016-10-23 3:04 AM, Michael Blair wrote:
> The sucking sound was heard all the way to California, Dwight.
>
> Mike in Woodland
Heck, I heard it here in Calgary.

Don

-- 
Let's all get normal at the luau - 'Frizz' Fuller
260200 Christopher Dunn <christopherdunn123@g...> 2016‑10‑23 Re: Chisels galore... and a question about paring gouges
Galoots

I saw some Buck Brothers crank neck pattern maker’s chisels on the
internet and was pondering the cranked handle question myself the
other day. The best I could come up with is they were meant to cut a
groove but provide clearance for your hand.

Lie Nielson has a cranked handle float, and it says "the cranked-neck
design gives good access to recessed surfaces". I own a straight
handle and cranked handle float, and I don't use the cranked handle
often. To cut with the straight handle, you apply a force along the
length of the tool which gives you a smooth straight cut. Typically I
apply a little pressure with my off hand to keep the tool flat against
the work. With the cranked handle you're always apply a diagonal force
with you one hand (what's the opposite of the off hand, the on hand?),
which wants to tip the tool up. To keep the tool against the work, you
need to apply a lot more force with the off hand. As your arm extends
the forces seem to vary, and it's hard to keep the bottom of the cut
flat. I think the last time I used the cranked handle was to clean up
the bottom of the groove for of some sliding dovetails on a table I
made for our dog.

Thanks,
Chris

PS: good find on the chisels
260204 Mark Pfeifer <markpfeifer@i...> 2016‑10‑23 Re: Chisels galore... and a question about paring gouges
I can't tell if this has been answered (cursed new iphone OS and how it lumps
emails!)

Patternmaker would use the cranked incannel in much the same way as any
woodworker would use a gouge: removal of waste.

I'm not a patternmaker but I've met a few. And I don't believe they viewed these
as an option for making flutes only, but general waste removal cross and with
grain, when making the wood mold.

The crank allows you to work your new surface parallel to the original surface,
without stressing about depth. The length of the iron allows for this, and makes
it a lot easier than doing it with a bent or straight gouge. (Anyone whose done
deeper relief carving knows what I'm talking about).

I have one and only one and I've still not decided whether it's useful to me.
But I don't have any traditional hollows and rounds......if I did I can totally
see using it to pre shape flutes before going to a round.....

And I think I just found my excuse for buying a couple of rounds.....  :)
260205 John Ruth <johnrruth@h...> 2016‑10‑23 Re: Chisels galore... and a question about paring gouges
Phil,

I honestly think this ranks with the best single-vendor, single-purchase "hauls"
ever described on the Porch!!!

(Note the adjectives; people have come back from auctions, Brimfield, etc. with
more.)

Most Galoots need years, maybe decades , to accumulate a grouping of chisels of
that quality level.

You may never see an opportunity like that again in your whole life!

I'm happy for you!

John Ruth

Sent from my iPhone
260206 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2016‑10‑23 Re: Chisels galore... and a question about paring gouges
On Oct 23, 2016, at 11:20 AM, Mark Pfeifer  wrote:

> And I think I just found my excuse for buying a couple of rounds.....  :)


Hey Mark

When and where - we’ll all show up

Ed Minch
260207 scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> 2016‑10‑23 Re: Chisels galore... and a question about paring gouges
Wicked driveby
   Even 40 years ago when they were still available from Silvo Hardware 
(who was still selling NOS), this was a bucket of money's worth of chisels.

Crank necks were invented for those long straight cuts that you need to 
work the far side of. Long smooth bottom grooves mostly. Patternmaking 
certainly, but other jobs too.

  A funny thing.  Time marches on.
Originally the paring gouges were the most dear. They were harder to 
find by far.
But now, most of the paring chisels are long gone, and many more paring 
gouges remain on the market.  So hang onto those chisels no matter what.

  Unless you get bored of them and then call me. Address below 
and.......... I am in the phone book.
    :)
   yours Scott

-- 
*******************************
    Scott Grandstaff
    Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
    scottg@s...
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html
260208 scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> 2016‑10‑23 Re: Chisels galore... and a question about paring gouges
Oh PS
  Somebody knew what they were doing with the little brass spokeshaves.
Out of 5 of them there is only one flat bottom.
   Using them very frequently, there is little use for the flat bottom. 
Round front to back see the most use by far, but the spoon bottoms find 
meaningful work in my shop too.

   And I had never seen large "Eskiltuna" carving chisels. ever
     yours again Scott


-- 
*******************************
    Scott Grandstaff
    Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
    scottg@s...
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html
260210 Dragon List <dragon01list@g...> 2016‑10‑25 Re: Chisels galore... and a question about paring gouges
feeling very, very jealous of the berg carving chisels.  those are
gorgeous, and berg has some of the best steel around.

nice haul.
best,
bill
felton, ca

On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 12:08 PM, scott grandstaff 
wrote:
260250 Philip Yarra <philip.yarra@i...> 2016‑11‑01 Re: Chisels galore... and a question about paring gouges
Thanks gents. I really feel I need to start doing some carving now, just 
to justify having such lovely carving tools.


And Scott, agreed, the little brass spokeshaves are pretty darn cool. 
Looking at the stamp on the box - Aldon - finds a bunch of these on the 
internet: 
http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?c=&p=32681&cat=1,50230&ap=1 
though the fact I have 5 might indicate I have most of two sets jammed 
together? Whatever the case, nifty little things, and at $5 for the 5... 
well you can't really go wrong for $1 each, now can you?


Cheers,

Philip.

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