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259651 Dwight Beebe <dwb1124@g...> 2016‑07‑22 Saw teeth and a Millers Falls No. 4
GGs,

I'm curious to know if I can change a saw to cut from push stroke to pull
stroke by simply retoothing it in reverse.  I have a user made
arborist's saw with a "Legal Tender" mark on it.  The blade is curved and
the mark is offset, which leads me to think it's a repurposed hand saw
blade.  Legal Tender saws were sold as a private brand, but I haven't done
any real research.  Was taken aback to see it come up when I was cleaning
the blade.  I wondered how many of these saw blades it would take to buy a
beer...  Many arborist folding hand saws, e.g., Silky Boy, are pull saws
and I like how they work in green wood.  I'm making spoons these days and
my buck saw can be too big and unwieldy for most sizes of bolts I want to
use for stock.

The second question has to do with the chuck on the MF No. 4.  How does it
work?  Mine is present, but I don't see how a bit is held tightly.  I don't
have bits for the drill, so I don't have any to play with.  Where they
special bits?  The chuck unscrews, but there is simply a hollow shaft
beneath it.  Is there something missing on this drill?

Thanks in advance,

Dwight
259652 Mark Pfeifer <markpfeifer@i...> 2016‑07‑22 Re: Saw teeth and a Millers Falls No. 4
i know it’s heretical to say this, but for cutting bolts of green stuff,
especially when I’m breaking down a branch with a bunch of forks (as in for
spoons) I don’t mind a pull instead of a push.

For anything else, especially working square stock, can’t imagine using pull…..
259653 Charlie Driggs <cdinde@v...> 2016‑07‑22 Re: Saw teeth and a Millers Falls No. 4
Dwight, 

I'm curious to know if I can change a saw to cut from push stroke to pull
stroke by simply retoothing it in reverse.  I have a user made
arborist's saw …  …?

My two cents:  In general, if the saw steel is thick enough to work in an
arborists saw, then it shouldn’t matter a whole lot which way the teeth are cut.
Note that you might wind up seeing the steel exhibit some bending or
contortionist behavior before putting it to use.  This could happen if in
reshaping the piece of sheet steel you also cut across lines of stress hammered
into it to tension the saw when it was made.  Retensioning the ‘new' blade may
be needed.  Arborist shape blades on pole saws I’ve had tend to acquire bends in
them during use when the offending branch decides not to cooperate by coming
away cleanly, and but that usually hasn’t bothered the saw’s function very much.
If it does, a little reverse bending (with care) has resolved the problem, or
careful hammering in strategic spots might be needed if the bends start looking
like hills and valleys on a topographical map.

The second question has to do with the chuck on the MF No. 4.  How does it
work?  … …. Is there something missing on this drill?

Maybe.  I don’t have either a No. 4 or a 4D MF eggbeater drill, but none among
my modest group of four have a chuck like the one Randy Roeder shows for the MF
No. 4 either.  If you don’t have the link to his site, here it is:  oldtoolheaven.com/hand_drills/drill2.htm">http://oldtoolheaven.com/hand_dril
ls/drill2.htm

Another resource is George Langford’s site …
http://georgesbasement.com
.. and I don’t see a type study for the MF No. 4 listed there.

The majority of eggbeater chucks I’ve examined use an internally tapered shell
that screws down on the chuck mounting rod and some method of using the upper
end of that threaded rod to guide the jaws up along the shell’s internal taper
to clamp them on the drill bit shank.  .And then there are those other designs
that someone thought were a better way to accomplish the task, but didn’t find a
large contingent of buyers who agreed with them.

Where’s Randy or George?  Maybe they can shed some more light on this for you.

Charlie
259657 <roygriggs@c...> 2016‑07‑22 Re: Saw teeth and a Millers Falls No. 4
GG, 
 My take on the MF No. 4 is that it never had a "chuck" it simply accepted a
drill bit with a base the size of the socket on the drill and the keeper nut was
made to clamp on the bit where it tapered. Using the same bits you used in a
push-drill. I have only ever seen one type of bit in a No. 4 and it was just a
pointed bit with no cutting flutes or anything. I also have another drill that
is the same as a No. 4 but is not a MF and it is the same. JMTC...
back under the porch...

roy griggs
roygriggs@c...
259660 Glen Canaday <gcanaday@g...> 2016‑07‑23 Re: Saw teeth and a Millers Falls No. 4
The MF #4 came with a set of diamond-shaped spade bits of different sizes.
However, they all had a 3/32 shank size. In modern bits, it accepts only
that size twist drill.

The "chuck" is only a hole in the spindle with sawn (or milled) slots to
allow it to act as jaws..essentially, an early collet. It had a threaded
nut that was tapered on the inside to apply closing pressure.

There are probably a bazillion pictures on the net of them; my personal
unit is a bad example as it has a collet on there from something else
entirely...I think, and so I've been told.

The 4D came with an actual chuck in tiny size and was able to grab
different shank sizes.

Glen of the North

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 16:23:43 -0500
From: 
To: Charlie Driggs , Dwight Beebe
        
Cc: Porch 
Subject: Re: [OldTools] Saw teeth and a Millers Falls No. 4
Message-ID: <20160722172343.CTEC4.16366.root@e...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

GG,
 My take on the MF No. 4 is that it never had a "chuck" it simply accepted
a drill bit with a base the size of the socket on the drill and the keeper
nut was made to clamp on the bit where it tapered. Using the same bits you
used in a push-drill. I have only ever seen one type of bit in a No. 4 and
it was just a pointed bit with no cutting flutes or anything. I also have
another drill that is the same as a No. 4 but is not a MF and it is the
same. JMTC...
back under the porch...

roy griggs
roygriggs@c...
259661 Dwight Beebe <dwb1124@g...> 2016‑07‑24 Re: Saw teeth and a Millers Falls No. 4
Interesting.  After reading Glen's post, I went back and took a closer look
(with a set of magnifying lenses) at the drill.  The spindle on mine has no
slots in it.  It is threaded to the end.  There does not appear to be
anything within the spindle that might hold a shaped bit to keep it from
spinning if it were simply inserted into the spindle.  The threaded nut
screws all the way down onto the spindle.  I have not measured the inside
diameter of either the spindle or the nut, but will to compare.

Thanks to all  for the information.

Regards,

Dwight

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