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234500 | Chuck Taylor <cft98208@y...> | 2012‑11‑19 | Re: Flattening Benchstones |
Gentle Galoots, Mark Fortune wrote: > What would be the best bit of kit for flattening bench stones; I have > amassed=A0 a good stock of bench stones now from car boot sales and > flee markets, I have a similar problem. :-) > =A0... lots of different types, they are almost all badly dished with > chips here and there,=A0 ...I love some of my old bench stones and > want to get them propperly flat. I want a=A0 tidy solution - > aggressive cut as there is a lot of material to move and was > thinking=A0 of buying a diamond stone??? , any advice would be much > appreciated. A diamond plate will do the job. I recommend the "XXC" ("Extra-Extra Course") model. That's what finally worked for me. You still need to flush the swarf with water; I use a spray bottle of water with a little detergent added. Another method is the 3-stone method. Call your stones A, B, and C. First rub A against B, then B against C, and C against A. Repeat enough times and all 3 are guaranteed to=A0 end up flat. Two stones aren't enough to guarantee flatness, but 3 are. The diamond plate will be faster, but more expensive. Good luck! Chuck Taylor north of soggy Seattle ------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
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234498 | Spike Cornelius <spikethebike@c...> | 2012‑11‑19 | Re: Flattening Benchstones |
DMT XXC diamond plate, or Atoma 140 plate will do the job easiest. You could use drywall screen on a flat plate, butt that would be slower. Or the sidewalk. On Nov 19, 2012, at 3:24 PM, Mark Fortune wrote: > Dear Galoots, What would be the best bit of kit for flattening bench > stones; I have amassed a good stock of bench stones now from car boot > sales and flee markets, lots of different types, they are almost all > badly dished with chips here and there, I have tried sand paper dry on > float glass and end up with little dips, I think this is because I am > not flushing the waste away and it clogs parts of the sand paper, > maybe water would help? - I am currently using Japanese waterstones > (which I keep perfectly flat) for lapping my chisels and plane irons > but waterstones are such a pane cause they wear so quick and are so > messy. I love some of my old bench stones and want to get them > propperly flat. I want a tidy solution - aggressive cut as there is a > lot of material to move and was thinking of buying a diamond stone??? > , any advice would be much appreciated. Mark > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > -------- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. >> To change your subscription options: > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools >> To read the FAQ: > http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html >> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/ OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
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234501 | "Adam R. Maxwell" <amaxwell@m...> | 2012‑11‑19 | Re: Flattening Benchstones |
On Nov 19, 2012, at 18:42 , Chuck Taylor |
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234502 | scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> | 2012‑11‑19 | Re: Flattening Benchstones |
I can't believe it Nobody looked in the archives? How many times we have to tell this to each other? Find a piece of semi smooth sidewalk where the wife does not frequent. Bring on the garden hose, at a dribble. Work in a large figure 8 most of the time. The stone will be flat in no time, but that concrete will glisten! Quick, wipe some dirt on before the wife wants you to polish the whole walk! yours Scott -- ******************************* Scott Grandstaff Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca 96039 scottg@s... http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
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234509 | James Thompson <oldmillrat@m...> | 2012‑11‑19 | Re: Flattening Benchstones |
Right now I am wishing I had one of those diamond plates, but I am not going to buy one. I stupidly dropped my prized large translucent white Arkansas stone on the concrete floor. it broke into 2 pieces. After I got the tears stopped, I stu ck it back together with CA glue. But of course, the 2 surfaces are not fair. I will work them back to flat on my concrete block. And I will cry the entire time . I bought that stone in 1976, and I have always cherished it. On Nov 19, 2012, at 8:55 PM, Mark Lovett Wells wrote: > On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 5:24 PM, Mark Fortune |
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234499 | John Holladay <docholladay0820@g...> | 2012‑11‑19 | Re: Flattening Benchstones |
I know that some folks use diamond stones, but the easiest and cheapest way that I have found so far is simply using the side of a concrete block that I flush with water occasionally to flush away the dust. Works for both water and oil stones. Doc On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 5:24 PM, Mark Fortune |
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234507 | Mark Lovett Wells <mark@m...> | 2012‑11‑19 | Re: Flattening Benchstones |
On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 5:24 PM, Mark Fortune |
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234492 | Mark Fortune <sparkler@e...> | 2012‑11‑19 | Flattening Benchstones |
Dear Galoots, What would be the best bit of kit for flattening bench stones; I have amassed a good stock of bench stones now from car boot sales and flee markets, lots of dif ferent types, they are almost all badly dished with chips here and there, I have tried sand paper dry on float glass and end up with little dips, I think this i s because I am not flushing the waste away and it clogs parts of the sand paper, maybe water would help? - I am currently using Japanese waterstones (which I k eep perfectly flat) for lapping my chisels and plane irons but waterstones are s uch a pane cause they wear so quick and are so messy. I love some of my old benc h stones and want to get them propperly flat. I want a tidy solution - aggressiv e cut as there is a lot of material to move and was thinking of buying a diamond stone??? , any advice would be much appreciated. Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
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234517 | "Ken Vaughn" <kvaughn65@c...> | 2012‑11‑20 | Re: Flattening Benchstones |
Several years ago I decided to lap my well used Arkansas stones -- Washita (pink/grey), Soft Arkansas (grey), and Hard Arkansas (white). I used a piece of window glass sitting on newspaper on top of my cast iron table saw surface, which I know to be very flat. I made a slurry with silicon carbide powder and water. You can buy silicon carbide powder at a lapidary supply shop and it comes in various grits to be used for tumbling agate and the like -- I bought coarse (60 to 80 grit) and medium (220 grit). Using a figure 8 motion, I lapped each with the coarse powder. Because the stones had been used with oil, they didn't absorb the water and it was easy to see the dished portion. When the stones were flat, I turned the glass over and repeated the process with the medium grit silicon carbide powder. This left a nice flat surface which I gave a final dressing with a sheet of 320 grit "wet and dry" sandpaper and water. My stones were not badly dished to start with, but if they had been, I would have flattened them on a cement block before using the silicon carbide powder. It took around 2 hours to lap the three stones on both sides. Ken Vaughn ------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
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234526 | Alex Moseley <alex_moseley@y...> | 2012‑11‑20 | Re: Flattening Benchstones |
Mark, Last month I put the advice of the Porch to the test [1]. =A0I found that it definitely helped to have a liquid to float away the debris, that cloth-backed aluminum oxide flattened my medium India stone without the deep gouges I got from the sidewalk (perhaps not all concrete is created equally?), but a coarse diamond stone left the freshest cutting surface. =A0My largest diamond "stone" was not big enough to properly lap my India stone. =A0 A large DMT lapping plate appears to be a good investment, given its utility and durability. =A0Once you get your stones lapped, I would recommend regular maintenance (perhaps annually, depending on how much you sharpen) to keep a fresh, flat surface with minimal effort. =A0Once you rehab a deeply dished oilstone, you might not want to do it again. [1]=A0http://liferevisited.wordpress.com/2012/10/14/flattening- oilstones-an-experiment/ Cheers, Alex ________________________________ Alex Moseley | alex_moseley@y... | http://liferevisited.wordpress.com "You must either make a tool of the creature, or a man of him. =A0You cannot make both." - John Ruskin=A0 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
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234534 | Alex Moseley <alex_moseley@y...> | 2012‑11‑20 | Re: Re: Flattening Benchstones |
Good insight, Don. =A0It would be interesting to know what method was used for flattening the communal "rubbing stone," but without at the same time knowing what that stone was made from, it might not be relevant to our particular setups. Maybe it comes down to picking a starting point and following up with practice and observation to find what works? I can't say I've found some magic number of strokes, but I'm definitely more mindful of how I use my oilstones now than I was when I bought them.=A0 While I haven't made the plunge yet, I plan at some point to buy one of the large DMT plates for regular maintenance of my oilstones, as well as for other lapping tasks related to my old tool affliction. I sure did like my India stone much more once I dressed it with the coarse diamond stone. =A0 Best Regards, Alex =A0 ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Schwartz |
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234531 | Don Schwartz <dkschwar@t...> | 2012‑11‑20 | Re: Re: Flattening Benchstones |
On 11/20/2012 10:37 AM, Alex Moseley wrote: |
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234540 | "professor@f..." <professor@frontiernet.net> | 2012‑11‑20 | Re: Re: Flattening Benchstones |
In the video Lie-Nielsen provides with their #62 low angle jack, Deneb Michalski (sp?) makes the same recommendation--flatten after every use. =A0 Frank S in IA --- On Tue, 11/20/12, Don Schwartz |
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234542 | Ken Shepard <waruba@c...> | 2012‑11‑20 | Re: Re: Flattening Benchstones |
Rob Cosman uses water stones and seems to spend as much time flatteningthem as he does in using them to sharpen. This need for incessant flattening is the main reason I no longer use my water stones. IMHO, this obsession with flattening stones is akin to some of the other obsessions that seem to periodically grip woodworkers; obsessions that take time away from actually working wood. Ken Shepard On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Don Schwartz |
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234547 | Tom Holloway <thholloway@u...> | 2012‑11‑20 | Re: Re: Flattening Benchstones |
I don't want to hear about it all being there in the Archives, because I don't think it has been said in a while: All this folderol about the time, hassle, and mess of flattening of stones of various traditions and provenance is one of the reasons I stick to Scary Sharp. My granite plate and my chunk of plate glass never go out of flat, because I renew the surface(s) [i.e., the various grits of paper] as needed. I have at my disposal about 8 or 10 grits descending course to fine from 80 to 2000, rather than 2 or 3 degrees of abrasiveness. To establish the primary bevel in a rehab operation I use a hand-cranked grinder, or if the bevel as found is shallower than 25 degrees I just hit with 80 grit to get a surface at that angle and then work on down. Quickly. In reworking a worn edge I move in higher angle increments about 2 degrees at a time and start at 150 or 220 grit, and then down. This gives me about three such renewed edges before I get much past 30 degrees and need to regrind and start over. I do all this dry, vacuuming off the swarf/dust as needed. Yes, I have the expense of buying the paper and the agony of slicing it with an errant stroke before it is used up, and the hassle of replacing it when it gets too shredded or worn out. But those are prices I will pay to avoid the alternatives I have been reading about in this thread. Nothing in sharpening comes free of some expense, hassle, and time, and all systems have their upsides, downsides, and tradeoffs. This works for me. Your mileage may vary. Tom Holloway On Nov 20, 2012, at 4:54 PM, Mark Fortune |
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234548 | Chuck Taylor <cft98208@y...> | 2012‑11‑20 | Re: Re: Flattening Benchstones |
Mark and other Gentle Galoots, Mark F. wrote: === =A0i start with sand paper stuck to a disk on my lathe & gradually get finer and finer then on to course/fine/superfine waterstones to mirror shine, (oh how beautifully they will cut after that!)=A0 I usually flatten each waterstone about 12 times in one session. Physically & mentally the whole process is punishment/abuse, but the worst part is all that horrible slurry from the waterstones, that's why I want to see them in "dry dock" and put some real stones into action.=A0 === I think that Thomas Lie-Nielsen put it best in his book, Sharpening (page 16): =A0"People who like oilstones prefer the mess that oil makes to the mess involved with using waterstones." I know I do. Chuck Taylor north of Seattle ------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
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234550 | Chuck Taylor <cft98208@y...> | 2012‑11‑20 | Re: Re: Flattening Benchstones |
Tom and other Gentle Galoots, Tom H. wrote: =A0"All this folderol about the time, hassle, and mess of flattening of stones of various traditions and provenance is one of the reasons I stick to Scary Sharp." On of the reasons I like using old hand tools is because that's what European and American craftsmen of the 19th century and earlier used. They managed to do some pretty good work that way. That's also one of the reasons I like to use oilstones. =A0YMMV. Does anybody know what kind of sharpening stones they use at the various historical re-enactment sites (Colonial Williamsburg, Plimouth Plantation, Fort Vancouver, etc.)? Best regards, Chuck Taylor north of Seattle ------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
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234551 | Brent Beach <brent.beach@g...> | 2012‑11‑20 | Re: Re: Flattening Benchstones |
On 2012-11-20 18:21, Tom Holloway wrote: > I don't want to hear about it all being there in the Archives, > because I don't think it has been said in a while: All this folderol > about the time, hassle, and mess of flattening of stones of various > traditions and provenance is one of the reasons I stick to Scary > Sharp. Amen to that. I have been reading the schemes people have adopted for flattening their stones with amazement. Hours flattening stones. More time spent flattening that sharpening. Now I have to admit that anyone who uses old tools does it from enjoyment of using the tools. Most prefer to buy huge electrical monsters that remove the worker from the wood. Time spent on something you enjoy is time well spent. If your hobby is flattening water stones and oil stones, go for it. However, most of the stores in the past week do not seem to be expressions of joy. They seem more like punishments. I spent quite a bit of time learning about abrasives, about metal, about how abrasives affect metal. It was a hobby and I enjoyed it and still do enjoy research. That is time spent reading and testing, it is not time spent woodworking. Two separate hobbies. When it comes to sharpening tools to use I spend almost no time. In 10 minutes I sharpen a couple of three plane irons and a few chisels and am done. No before work other than getting the stuff out of the storage box. No after stuff other than putting it back. Now and then I replace a piece of abrasive paper, not often. Someone spent 3 hours flattening one stone! I don't spend 3 hours sharpening in a year. If sharpening is not your hobby, just a means to an end, which is woodworking. If flattening stones is not your hobby, something you would rather avoid if you could. If you can build a simple wooden jig and do a few other simple tasks, you might be interested in using abrasives on glass the way I do: http://www3.telus.net/BrentBeach/Sharpen/ I just watched an episode of the Big Bang Theory in which the theme was people who cannot stop talking about a single topic. People for whom all conversations revert to a single theme. I sure don't want to become one of those people, so I don't mention my web site on this or any forum but once every couple of years. The archive search finds many threads with this link, but most of the threads do not have the link. Google finds 57 hits, but some are duplicates and some were not in emails from me. The reason I use sheet abrasives on glass is I could not get stones to work. I have plenty of water and oil stones of various kinds and they don't work for me. Probably 40 in total. Moved them from one storage shelf to another in recent months. The one exception is the silicon carbide coarse stone I use for grinding. It has never needed flattening in part because I never work the edge on this stone - just the bevel back of the edge. The need for flat back there is easily met even with a stone on which I have ground dozens of irons over years. Not flattened once. I should put all my stones into a FMM message some day, but I don't want to inflict this stuff on anyone else either. Brent -- Victoria, B.C., Canada ------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
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234546 | Steve Fravel <cocobolo@s...> | 2012‑11‑20 | Re: Re: Flattening Benchstones |
On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 00:54 +0000, Mark Fortune wrote: > If I don't spend the money - the wife will!! That right there is probably some of the best and most relevant, to my situation at least, non-directly tool-related advice I've seen here on the porch. Thank you. I'll remember it next time I'm sitting on the fence regarding the purchase of an old tool. -- Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
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234552 | <roygriggs@c...> | 2012‑11‑20 | Re: Re: Flattening Benchstones |
---- Brent Beach |
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234554 | James Thompson <oldmillrat@m...> | 2012‑11‑20 | Re: Flattening Benchstones |
I must be doing something wrong. I have been using the same stones for a very lo ng time now (probably 40 years), and I honestly can't tell you whether or not th ey are less than flat. I really don't care because they sharpen my tools adequat ely just as they are. I started with new stones, and have used them carefully. I suppose if you start with old worn stones they don't get better unless you flat ten them. But why would you start out with old stones? All I want is sharp tools to do woodworking, and I truly doubt that a millimeter here and there is going to make any difference. As my daddy used to say, "We ai n't building fine watches here." I am very suspicious of people who have to have perfection in their tools. The s kill is not in the tool. I have personally never seen an old plane or chisel whi ch had a flat back when I found it. That says to me that this need for perfectio n that we feel was not felt by the old timers. It is fairly new, and it tells me that people today have too much time and too much money, or they wouldn't even consider such things. How's that for a "Bah! Humbug???" On Nov 20, 2012, at 4:54 PM, Mark Fortune wrote: > > I do appreciate the importance of flatness for lapping chisels & plane irons , once properly prepared its easy to maintain the lapped face, trouble is I coll ect old "sheffield" chisels and lap maybe one or two a week - most are rust pitt ed wrecks - i start with sand paper stuck to a disk on my lathe & gradually get finer and finer then on to course/fine/superfine waterstones to mirror shine, (o h how beautifully they will cut after that!) I usually flatten each waterstone about 12 times in one session. Physically & mentally the whole process is punish ment/abuse, but the worst part is all that horrible slurry from the waterstones, that's why I want to see them in "dry dock" and put some real stones into actio n. > > I think I might go for a DMT dia flat lapping plate to prepare the bench sto nes. > If I don't spend the money - the wife will!! > > Mark Fortune > > > On 20 Nov 2012, at 23:03, Ken Shepard |
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234553 | Joshua Clark <jclark@h...> | 2012‑11‑20 | Re: Flattening Benchstones |
I keep my waterstones flat with a 220 grit DMT stone, a good multi- takser that I also use for the first stages of sharpening and lapping. It only takes a few swipes each time I use my stones- maybe 10 seconds at most. I started doing this after watching Larry Williams' DVD Sharpening Profiled Hand Tools. He does the same with his oil stones before he uses them. I figure he's a pretty reliable source . It's made a big difference in my sharpening, reducing the time it takes and giving me more consistent results. If you take care of your stones they won't get out of flat. If I had to start over again I'd pick oil stones, but I'm determined to use these water stones until they are used up. Josh On Nov 20, 2012, at 1:20 PM, Don Schwartz wrote: > On 11/20/2012 10:37 AM, Alex Moseley wrote: >> |
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234544 | Mark Fortune <sparkler@e...> | 2012‑11‑21 | Re: Re: Flattening Benchstones |
I do appreciate the importance of flatness for lapping chisels & plane irons, on ce properly prepared its easy to maintain the lapped face, trouble is I collect old "sheffield" chisels and lap maybe one or two a week - most are rust pitted w recks - i start with sand paper stuck to a disk on my lathe & gradually get fine r and finer then on to course/fine/superfine waterstones to mirror shine, (oh ho w beautifully they will cut after that!) I usually flatten each waterstone abou t 12 times in one session. Physically & mentally the whole process is punishment /abuse, but the worst part is all that horrible slurry from the waterstones, tha t's why I want to see them in "dry dock" and put some real stones into action. I think I might go for a DMT dia flat lapping plate to prepare the bench stone s. If I don't spend the money - the wife will!! Mark Fortune On 20 Nov 2012, at 23:03, Ken Shepard |
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234549 | zacharydillinger@g... | 2012‑11‑21 | Re: Re: Flattening Benchstones |
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234560 | James Thompson <oldmillrat@m...> | 2012‑11‑21 | Re: Flattening Benchstones |
Of course it is! But the hue and cry is always that, "I need this stone to do (i nsert your phrase here). So I must spend endless hours flattening and perfecting it for that use." The stones are collected as interesting artifacts, not becaus e of need. And using the stone after perfecting it destroys the perfection. Has anyone wondered why old used stones are always dished? Because they were used, a nd the owner didn't know he was supposed to flatten it. On Nov 21, 2012, at 5:40 AM, Cliff Rohrabacher Esq. wrote: > On 11/21/2012 1:56 AM, James Thompson wrote: >> >> The skill is not in the tool. I have personally never seen an old plane or chisel which had a flat back when I found it. That says to me that this need fo r perfection that we feel was not felt by the old timers. It is fairly new, and it tells me that people today have too much time and too much money, or they wou ldn't even consider such things. > > > HA HA HA HA the delta between vocation and hobby I suspect. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
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234555 | Ed Minch <ruby@m...> | 2012‑11‑21 | Re: Flattening Benchstones |
On Nov 21, 2012, at 1:56 AM, James Thompson wrote: > But why would you start out with old stones? Just to lighten this up a bit - I recently acquired a very interesting "stone". It is inset into a wooden box with a lid, and has a 1" or so hole drilled next to it (for tallow?). The base of the box is about 3" tall. The shape of the stone is not rectangular but more or less an oval shape. It is obviously old, but what drew me to it was the "1817" carved into the top. The hinges, the amount of oil and swarf (great word), the patina - everything points to that date being accurate. When I picked up the box, it seemed awfully heavy. After checking it out, I lifted the stone out of its recess, only to find that it really is a "stone". It is half of a baseball shape and the recess fits it very tightly. So someone found an appropriate rock, split it in half, flattened it, then built a box for it. By the way, it is pretty darn flat By the way, I use SStm Ed Minch ------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
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234558 | "Cliff Rohrabacher Esq." <rohrabacher@e...> | 2012‑11‑21 | Re: Re: Flattening Benchstones |
To pile on with oil stone information: I have found that motor oil ends up depositing a waxy clog to the stone's surface after some time. So I tried a can of cheap store brand Tranny Fluid which is highly detergent and the problem went away and the fluid cleaned up my stones. Mineral oil is nice too. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
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234559 | "Cliff Rohrabacher Esq." <rohrabacher@e...> | 2012‑11‑21 | Re: Flattening Benchstones |
On 11/21/2012 1:56 AM, James Thompson wrote: > > The skill is not in the tool. I have personally never seen an old plane or c hisel which had a flat back when I found it. That says to me that this need for perfection that we feel was not felt by the old timers. It is fairly new, and it tells me that people today have too much time and too much money, or they would n't even consider such things. HA HA HA HA the delta between vocation and hobby I suspect. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
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234564 | Brent Beach <brent.beach@g...> | 2012‑11‑21 | Re: Flattening Benchstones |
On diamond stones to flatten other abrasive stones On 2012-11-20 20:21, Joshua Clark wrote: > I keep my waterstones flat with a 220 grit DMT stone, a good > multi-takser that I also use for the first stages of sharpening and > lapping. It only takes a few swipes each time I use my stones- maybe > 10 seconds at most. Diamonds actually shatter the particles of the other abrasive. While this process may dislodge some particles, those it does not dislodge it shatters. Breaking off the tips. This has an interesting result. When you break off the tip of an abrasive particle, almost all the time the resulting particle is duller. The upward facing point has a larger included angle. http://www3.telus.net/BrentBeach/Sharpen/Fig%2003.18.jpg From Samuels, showing how abrasive grit fractures. In all three cases the new tip is blunter than the old tip. The larger the included angle the greater the stress (force) when the grit particle abrades the metal surface. The greater the stress the greater the resulting dislocation of the crystal matrix. The weaker the metal. The faster your tool will dull. Diamond is unusual in this regard. Most other ways of flattening will dislodge grits, not fracture them, because the second surface is not so much harder than the stone you are flattening. In the case of flattening on cement, the second surface is softer and will almost always dislodge grits rather than fracture them. Waterstones have a soft binder - grits are more likely to dislodge rather than fracture. The harder the binder the more likely you are to get fracturing. The tips also fracture during use of course, so there is some dulling of the abrasive. With sheet abrasives, there may only be one layer of grit particles. Once they get dull, time for a new sheet. With stones, getting one with a good balance between binder hardness which allows duller grits (which because they exert more pressure are more likely to pop out) to pop out refreshing the surface, is the key. Too soft, even sharp grits pop out. Too hard, too many dull grits. Brent -- Victoria, B.C., Canada ------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
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234565 | scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> | 2012‑11‑21 | Re: Re: Flattening Benchstones |
Ummmmmmm Guys The diamond plates are basically glorified sandpaper. They last longer than sandpaper of course, but from the very first use (when they do work fantastically well) they work less well with every single use until they are just dull pebbles glued to a plate. I simply can't imagine how quickly they dull cutting carborundum or even india? You can buy new stones and throw them away when they dish for less than $200. You do need to find trowled cement as opposed to rough to reflatten your stones. But that is all. Fairly smooth cement. Stay away from the microscope examining your stone surface!! You freak. Good enough is good enough. Go find something better to do with your time, weenie. How about you quit squinting at nothing and show me a barrel of shavings maybe? Oh PS, I clean my stone every time, before I use it. Mineral oil or baby oil. Then wipe dry! I don't sharpen anything in a gush of slop. Clean and dry gets it done! If the work goes on long enough, the stone will load up and I will clean again in the middle, but I wipe dry with a rag after. I have seen people sharpening in an actual lake of slop, whether water or oil. I can't imagine. Yuck You don't have to work that way. I am walking proof, 40 years, you don't have to. yours Scott -- ******************************* Scott Grandstaff Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca 96039 scottg@s... http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
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234566 | James Thompson <oldmillrat@m...> | 2012‑11‑21 | Re: Flattening Benchstones |
I keep a gallon of diesel fuel around for general parts washing, and I pour a li ttle MMO into some of it to lube my stones. Just enough to make it pink so I kno w what it is. I don't like oil alone because my tools tend to float on the oil. I use a speay bottle to apply the diesel, and I wipe the dross off often. I alwa ys clean my stones when I am done. On Nov 21, 2012, at 9:29 AM, John Holladay wrote: > A year or so ago, I started using Marvel Mystery Oil on my oil stones. My > only criteria were, 1) It is a thin viscosity oil (mostly transmission > fluid) and 2) it smells nice (kind of minty). It costs a little more, but > it is used in such small quantities it really doesn't matter. Finally, it > works, it keeps my stones clean and they smell good. What more could you > ask for. > > Doc > > > > On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 7:38 AM, Cliff Rohrabacher Esq. < > rohrabacher@e...> wrote: > >> To pile on with oil stone information: >> I have found that motor oil ends up depositing a waxy clog to the stone's >> surface after some time. So I tried a can of cheap store brand Tranny >> Fluid which is highly detergent and the problem went away and the fluid >> cleaned up my stones. >> Mineral oil is nice too. >> ------------------------------**------------------------------** >> ------------ >> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool >> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, >> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of >> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. >> >> To change your subscription options: >> >> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/**mailman/listinfo/oldtools<http://ruckus.la w.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools> >> >> To read the FAQ: >> >> http://swingleydev.com/**archive/faq.html<http://swingleydev.com/archive/f aq.html> >> >> >> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/**archive/<http://swingleydev.com /archive/> >> >> OldTools@r...**edu |
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234562 | John Holladay <docholladay0820@g...> | 2012‑11‑21 | Re: Re: Flattening Benchstones |
A year or so ago, I started using Marvel Mystery Oil on my oil stones. My only criteria were, 1) It is a thin viscosity oil (mostly transmission fluid) and 2) it smells nice (kind of minty). It costs a little more, but it is used in such small quantities it really doesn't matter. Finally, it works, it keeps my stones clean and they smell good. What more could you ask for. Doc On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 7:38 AM, Cliff Rohrabacher Esq. < rohrabacher@e...> wrote: > To pile on with oil stone information: > I have found that motor oil ends up depositing a waxy clog to the stone's > surface after some time. So I tried a can of cheap store brand Tranny > Fluid which is highly detergent and the problem went away and the fluid > cleaned up my stones. > Mineral oil is nice too. > ------------------------------**------------------------------** > ------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To change your subscription options: > > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/**mailman/listinfo/oldtools<http://ruckus.law. cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools> > > To read the FAQ: > > http://swingleydev.com/**archive/faq.html<http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq .html> > > > OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/**archive/<http://swingleydev.com/a rchive/> > > OldTools@r...**edu |
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234557 | Mark Fortune <sparkler@e...> | 2012‑11‑21 | Re: Flattening Benchstones |
Here's how I prepare before an old tool auction (seriously!) First I picture my wife in a really stunning dress=85. Then I picture that same dress hanging in the local charity shop window with a 1.50c price tag (cause thats where it will end up in a few months) I tell my wife she looks beautiful no matter what she wears Put a bit of change in the poor box Now I'm ready to bid! On 21 Nov 2012, at 02:08, Steve Fravel |
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234572 | James Thompson <oldmillrat@m...> | 2012‑11‑21 | Re: Flattening Benchstones |
OOOOOHH! OOOOHH! I have a wonderful suggestion for kitchen knives. I have one of those diamond coated rods that looks like a knife burnisher with a handle. I us e it to put an edge on my kitchen knives, and I follow it with a burnisher. I never liked using stones on large kitchen knives, as it is cumbersome to me. T he diamond sharpening rod is fast and it gets every bit of the blade sharp, almo st like magic. This is very important to me because no matter how much I whine and cry, SWMBO w ill always put a knife in the sink as soon as she is finished using it. This inv ariable dulls the knife, at least for me. She seems oblivious to a knife being d ull, but I just can't use one unless it is SHARP!!! And I know without a doubt t hat every time I pick one up it will be dull. But I can fix that quickly and eas ily. It's easier than doing battle. On Nov 21, 2012, at 11:50 AM, John Ruth wrote: > > GG's > > > > Somebody asked "What more could one ask for?" in an oilstone lubricant. > > > > > The missing qualtity is non-toxicity and freedom from clinging taste & odor so that one might stone a kitchen knife without having to wash the daylights out of it afterward to get that WD-40 or Marvel Mystery Oil smell off of it. > > > > > So the idea choice is thinned mineral oil. I'm just not sure what to thin it with. > > > > > Then again, perhaps I am merely depriving myself of an excuse to own two set s of stones, one set for the shop and one set for the kitchen. > > > > > And, as an aside, I learned long ago that fooling around with aerosol cans t hat have lost their spray head is a recipe for comic outcomes that aren't gong t o seem particularly funny when they happen. DAMHIKT !!! > > > > John Ruth > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To change your subscription options: > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > To read the FAQ: > http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
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234567 | Ken Shepard <waruba@c...> | 2012‑11‑21 | Re: Re: Flattening Benchstones |
After finding a couple cans of Marvel Mystery Oil while cleaning out my FIL's shop, I began using it as a sharpening lube, though I mix it 50/50 with kerosene to make it a bit thinner. I guess that ruins the good smell advantage. Seems to work better than most other oils in keeping swarf in suspension and the stone cutting freely. For an activity that should be relatively simple and non-controversial, sharpening certainly engenders a wide variety of opinions. Ken Shepard On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 12:29 PM, John Holladay |
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234568 | nicknaylo@a... | 2012‑11‑21 | Re: Re: Flattening Benchstones |
I use WD-40, One of the cans that lost the spray top to so its just thelittle white tube sticking out of the can. Press that tube down ontothe stone and a mostly full can of WD-40 doesn't have to be thrown out. Michael S ----------------------------------------------------------------------- - |
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234575 | James Thompson <oldmillrat@m...> | 2012‑11‑21 | Re: Flattening Benchstones |
I am pretty sure the diamonds on my stick are 400 grit. Anyway they are fast. I will ever worry about running out of kitchen knives because I started collecting good ones way back when, and I have enough for several lifetimes. I would feel differently if I only had a few, then I'd be babying them. On Nov 21, 2012, at 2:32 PM, John Holladay wrote: > > My personal favorite way to sharpen (or at least hone) knives is a ceramic s tick followed by a sharpening steel or burnisher. > > Doc > > > On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 3:50 PM, James Thompson |
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234570 | John Ruth <johnrruth@h...> | 2012‑11‑21 | RE: Flattening Benchstones |
GG's Somebody asked "What more could one ask for?" in an oilstone lubricant. The missing qualtity is non-toxicity and freedom from clinging taste & odor so that one might stone a kitchen knife without having to wash the daylights out of it afterward to get that WD-40 or Marvel Mystery Oil smell off of it. So the idea choice is thinned mineral oil. I'm just not sure what to thin it with. Then again=2C perhaps I am merely depriving myself of an excuse to own two sets of stones=2C one set for the shop and one set for the kitchen. And=2C as an aside=2C I learned long ago that fooling around with aerosol cans that have lost their spray head is a recipe for comic outcomes that aren't gong to seem particularly funny when they happen. DAMHIKT !!! John Ruth ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------ |
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234574 | John Holladay <docholladay0820@g...> | 2012‑11‑21 | Re: Flattening Benchstones |
My personal favorite way to sharpen (or at least hone) knives is a ceramic stick followed by a sharpening steel or burnisher. Doc On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 3:50 PM, James Thompson |
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234573 | Bill Ghio <bghio@m...> | 2012‑11‑21 | Re: Flattening Benchstones |
On Nov 21, 2012, at 4:50 PM, James Thompson |
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234578 | Brent Beach <brent.beach@g...> | 2012‑11‑21 | Re: Flattening Benchstones |
Do sinks dull knives? On 2012-11-21 13:50, James Thompson wrote: > This is very important to me because no matter how much I whine and > cry, SWMBO will always put a knife in the sink as soon as she is > finished using it. This invariable dulls the knife, at least for me. > She seems oblivious to a knife being dull, but I just can't use one > unless it is SHARP!!! And I know without a doubt that every time I What part of putting the knife in the sink is causing it to dull? Are these high carbon steel or stainless. IMHO the thing most likely to dull a kitchen knife is the cutting board. Worst possible, with knife blade vertical, edge on board, sweep the chopped veges off the board into a bowl. Bamboo contains a lot of retained silica. Bamboo cutting boards can be quite abrasive on knives. You could use it as a hone, perhaps. I do use a bamboo cutting board but don't draw the knife across the board either along or across the edge. What could your wife be doing in the sink with a knife that would affect the edge? And, no, I cannot imagine you whining and crying. Brent -- Victoria, B.C., Canada ------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
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234581 | Don Schwartz <dkschwar@t...> | 2012‑11‑21 | Re: Flattening Benchstones |
Brent: Thanks! Your posts never fail to challenge & inform! On 11/21/2012 10:49 AM, Brent Beach wrote: > On diamond stones to flatten other abrasive stones > > On 2012-11-20 20:21, Joshua Clark wrote: >> I keep my waterstones flat with a 220 grit DMT stone, a good |
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234582 | Don Schwartz <dkschwar@t...> | 2012‑11‑21 | Re: Flattening Benchstones |
On 11/21/2012 12:50 PM, John Ruth wrote: > GG's > > > > Somebody asked "What more could one ask for?" in an oilstone lubricant. > > > > > The missing qualtity is non-toxicity and freedom from clinging taste & odor so that one might stone a kitchen knife without having to wash the daylights out of it afterward to get that WD-40 or Marvel Mystery Oil smell off of it. > > > > > So the idea choice is thinned mineral oil. I'm just not sure what to thin it with. > Two thoughts. 1. keep the stone(s) warm (my preferred option) OR (based on Bob Flexner's explanation of petroleum-distillate solvents) 2. thin it with naptha, mineral spirits or kerosene (naptha being the most volatile, kerosene the least) FWIW Don ------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
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234583 | "Dave Nighswander" <wishingstarfarm663@m...> | 2012‑11‑22 | Re: Flattening Benchstones |
Snip From: Brent Beach Do sinks dull knives? On 2012-11-21 13:50, James Thompson wrote: > This is very important to me because no matter how much I whine and > cry, SWMBO will always put a knife in the sink as soon as she is > finished using it. This invariable dulls the knife, What part of putting > the knife in the sink is causing it to dull? Unsnip Snip What could your wife be doing in the sink with a knife that would affect the edge? Unsnip Piling them up on each other. Steel on steel on porcelain. If the knife is hard it chips, if it's soft it dulls. Saw blades or butter knives either one is less than it is supposed to be. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
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234584 | "Dave Nighswander" <wishingstarfarm663@m...> | 2012‑11‑22 | Re: Flattening Benchstones |
In a previous life I polished draw dies with slip stones and kerosene as the lubricant/cleaner. We started using scented lamp oil and never went back to straight kero. I still do the occasional polish on a piece with lamp oil. Don't tell SWMBO where it keeps going. -----Original Message----- From: Don Schwartz Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 1:04 AM To: oldtools@r... Subject: Re: [OldTools] Flattening Benchstones On 11/21/2012 12:50 PM, John Ruth wrote: > GG's > > > Somebody asked "What more could one ask for?" in an oilstone lubricant. > > > The missing qualtity is non-toxicity and freedom from clinging taste & > odor so that one might stone a kitchen knife without having to wash the > daylights out of it afterward to get that WD-40 or Marvel Mystery Oil > smell off of it. > > > So the idea choice is thinned mineral oil. I'm just not sure what to thin > it with. > Two thoughts. 1. keep the stone(s) warm (my preferred option) OR (based on Bob Flexner's explanation of petroleum-distillate solvents) 2. thin it with naptha, mineral spirits or kerosene (naptha being the most volatile, kerosene the least) FWIW Don ------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
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234586 | James Thompson <oldmillrat@m...> | 2012‑11‑22 | Re: Flattening Benchstones |
My understanding is that lamp oil is kerosene, as is diesel. Kerosene is sold as a lot of different things. It was once known as coal oil, and was once used as a medicine for various skin remedies, as well as constipation. Very versatile st uff. On Nov 21, 2012, at 10:36 PM, Dave Nighswander wrote: > > In a previous life I polished draw dies with slip stones and kerosene as the lubricant/cleaner. We started using scented lamp oil and never went back to str aight kero. I still do the occasional polish on a piece with lamp oil. Don't tel l SWMBO where it keeps going. > > -----Original Message----- From: Don Schwartz > Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 1:04 AM > To: oldtools@r... > Subject: Re: [OldTools] Flattening Benchstones > > On 11/21/2012 12:50 PM, John Ruth wrote: >> GG's >> >> >> Somebody asked "What more could one ask for?" in an oilstone lubricant. >> >> >> >> The missing qualtity is non-toxicity and freedom from clinging taste & odo r so that one might stone a kitchen knife without having to wash the daylights o ut of it afterward to get that WD-40 or Marvel Mystery Oil smell off of it. >> >> >> >> So the idea choice is thinned mineral oil. I'm just not sure what to thin it with. >> > Two thoughts. > 1. keep the stone(s) warm (my preferred option) OR (based on Bob > Flexner's explanation of petroleum-distillate solvents) > 2. thin it with naptha, mineral spirits or kerosene (naptha being the > most volatile, kerosene the least) > > FWIW > Don > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To change your subscription options: > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > To read the FAQ: > http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To change your subscription options: > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > To read the FAQ: > http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools ------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
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