OldTools Archive

Recent Search Bios FAQ

233679 "Blake Ashley" <Blake.Ashley@t...> 2012‑10‑11 old tool wiki
I think Adam's idea of an oldtool wiki is excellent.

Blake

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233683 CheekyGeek <cheekygeek@g...> 2012‑10‑11 Re: old tool wiki
I don't know if spam-fighting tools for wikis are any better now than
they were back when I tried it (for another topic) but fighting
automated link spam will bring wiki contributors to their knees. Wikis
need to live on servers, require bandwidth, administrators (and most
of all contributors/editors) to become a knowledge repository. They
can begin with enthusiasm and die with neglect just like any other web
entity, including listservs.

Sorry to be a Debbie-Downer, but a dose of realism might be doing
everyone a favor...
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233696 Brent Beach <brent.beach@g...> 2012‑10‑11 Re: old tool wiki
An additional difference between a wiki and a faq.

Usually a faq is owned by someone - a person who adds stuff and updates 
the single file.

A wiki is a nest of web pages that all relate to a topic. Anyone - 
perhaps from a list of members - can update any page any time. Wikipedia 
is the biggest wiki, but there are wikis for many other areas.

For example, anyone on old tools with an interest in metal spinning 
could build a few pages on that within the wiki. All the topics we 
discuss on old tools could gradually migrate into the wiki and people 
would go to the wiki before asking a question.

Each wiki page can have an associated discussion and issues pages - 
where people hash out how best to present the material.

It is an online mechanism that allows a geographically separate group of 
people to collaborate on a project.

Brent

On 2012-10-11 14:01, Bill Taggart wrote:
>
> On 10/11/2012 4:29 PM, Zachary Dillinger wrote:
>> For those of us who are prematurely old and afraid of technology, can
>> someone explain exactly what a "wiki" is and how it differs from a
>> good old fashioned FAQ?
>
> A FAQ typically provides answers to "frequently asked questions" about
> the forum/mailing list/website itself. It's sort of a beginner's/users
> guide to what the forum/mailing list/website is all about and how to use
> it.
>
> A wiki is a repository of accumulated information and more encyclopedic,
> to be used as a reference source. It's more of an agglomeration of
> accumulated knowledge on the subject matter.
>
> - Bill T.
> - Who thinks a lot of these issues would be neatly answered by going to
> a forum format, but who also knows there are a lot of list members who
> are strongly against that...

-- 
Victoria, B.C., Canada
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233686 WesG <wesg@g...> 2012‑10‑11 Re: old tool wiki
... Especially now that phone/camera/email is so common.

Not for everyone... I know. But it's very common. Wes

On Oct 11, 2012, at 3:09 PM, Matthew Groves  wrote:

> Not wanting to rehash the ol plaintext email debate, but also
> wondering how much it holds us back.
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233694 Don Schwartz <dkschwar@t...> 2012‑10‑11 Re: old tool wiki
On 10/11/2012 2:29 PM, Zachary Dillinger wrote:
> For those of us who are prematurely old and afraid of technology, can
> someone explain exactly what a "wiki" is and how it differs from a
> good old fashioned FAQ?
> --
> Zachary Dillinger
>


A good introduction to wikis can be read and inferred from here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:About

and here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Five_pillars

Don

-- 
"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without 
evidence." Christopher Hitchens, 2007
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233681 Matthew Groves <Matthew.Groves@c...> 2012‑10‑11 Re: old tool wiki
I sure wish we could get pictures straightened out before a wiki. A wiki
is a fantastic idea, but involves some of the same hurdles encountered
with other oldtools communication aspects.

Not wanting to rehash the ol plaintext email debate, but also wondering
how much it holds us back.

Matthew Groves Springfield, MO

On Oct 11, 2012, at 2:57 PM, "Blake Ashley"  wrote:

> I think Adam's idea of an oldtool wiki is excellent.
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233682 Anthony Seo <tonyseo@p...> 2012‑10‑11 Re: old tool wiki
At 04:09 PM 10/11/2012, Matthew Groves wrote:
>I sure wish we could get pictures straightened out before a wiki. A 
>wiki is a fantastic idea, but involves some of the same hurdles 
>encountered with other oldtools communication aspects.
>
>Not wanting to rehash the ol plaintext email debate, but also 
>wondering how much it holds us back.

Well there is the issue that if you allow photos then you have to 
allow any sort of attachment and that opens the door to all kinds of 
nasties.  Plus there is the issue of extra traffic and band-width on 
the server.   We have been blessed with having a free hosting server 
for the list that is on in a fairly stable environment thanks to one 
of the list's founders and well, one can't ask for much more than than.

Plus I prefer the text format for all of my emails.  Ebay just added 
the ability for sellers to send pics in messages but I would have to 
turn on HTML messaging which I do not want to do.

Tony (color me a dinosaur or anything else that you want)

                         Olde River Hard Goods
                     http://www.oldetoolshop.com
                                   TSMusic on Facebook
                http://www.facebook.com/tonyseomusic

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233684 Zachary Dillinger <zacharydillinger@g...> 2012‑10‑11 Re: old tool wiki
For those of us who are prematurely old and afraid of technology, can
someone explain exactly what a "wiki" is and how it differs from a
good old fashioned FAQ?
--
Zachary Dillinger
The Eaton County Joinery
www.theeatoncountyjoinery.com
517-231-3374

On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Blake Ashley  wrote:
> I think Adam's idea of an oldtool wiki is excellent.
>
> Blake
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>
> OldTools@r...
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
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233690 Bill Taggart <w.taggart@v...> 2012‑10‑11 Re: old tool wiki
On 10/11/2012 4:29 PM, Zachary Dillinger wrote:
> For those of us who are prematurely old and afraid of technology, can
> someone explain exactly what a "wiki" is and how it differs from a
> good old fashioned FAQ?

A FAQ typically provides answers to "frequently asked questions" about 
the forum/mailing list/website itself. It's sort of a beginner's/users 
guide to what the forum/mailing list/website is all about and how to use 
it.

A wiki is a repository of accumulated information and more encyclopedic, 
to be used as a reference source. It's more of an agglomeration of 
accumulated knowledge on the subject matter.

- Bill T.
- Who thinks a lot of these issues would be neatly answered by going to 
a forum format, but who also knows there are a lot of list members who 
are strongly against that...
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233691 Bill Taggart <w.taggart@v...> 2012‑10‑11 Re: old tool wiki
On 10/11/2012 4:25 PM, Anthony Seo wrote:
> At 04:09 PM 10/11/2012, Matthew Groves wrote:
>> I sure wish we could get pictures straightened out before a wiki. A 
>> wiki is a fantastic idea, but involves some of the same hurdles 
>> encountered with other oldtools communication aspects.
>>
>> Not wanting to rehash the ol plaintext email debate, but also 
>> wondering how much it holds us back.
>
> Well there is the issue that if you allow photos then you have to 
> allow any sort of attachment and that opens the door to all kinds of 
> nasties.
>

I guess I'm not clear on what the problem is with photos. I post my pics 
on Photobucket, which is free and very easy to use, and then I can post 
links to the photos here. There also are other free photo hosting sites 
that work essentially the same way.

- Bill T.
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233704 James Pickering <jp29@c...> 2012‑10‑11 Re: old tool wiki
I don't contribute very often here so my name is probably unfamiliar to most of 
you. I think there is a lot of misunderstanding these days relating to the compo
sition and functioning of online Message Boards and Forums. There are several ex
cellent iterations of these implementations that are free and allow unlimited us
e (i.e. without regard to band width). Of course they are free because you grant
 the providers permission to insert related advertising banners at their conveni
ence. It has been my experience that the ads these days are neither excessive or
 overly obtrusive. If you don't want the ads you have to pay a monthly fee -- it
s TANSTAAFL (There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch). I have operated free me
ssage Boards/Forums during the past few years with nary a problem.

These Message Boards and Forums offer full feature editing, BB code or HTML form
atting, inclusion of images .... and so on. Problems encountered in initiating t
hese facilities include:  finding an Administrator who has the time and knowledg
e to make them tick and keep them going (old fogey retirees with some computer m
oxy are ideal) - a couple or so Moderators (to cover international time zones) t
o delete the inevitable porn posts or other nasties - AND ENOUGH ONGOING PARTICI
PATION - otherwise they die on the vine.

Anyway, I have set up a dummy free Message Board:

http://members.boardhost.com/jamesicus/

And a dummy free Forum:

http://jpf.boardhost.com/index.php

So that you can see what they look like. Play around with them - test features: 
you cant hurt anything - ask questions here  - I will answer them to the best of
 my ability.

James
http://jp29.org/

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233709 James Pickering <jp29@c...> 2012‑10‑11 RE: Re: old tool wiki
---- Micah Salb  wrote: 
> > But the problem with online message boards is that you have to go there.  Wi
th list-serves, the emails come right to you.
> 
> Micah

Sure, so if that's a problem for the using community it shouldn't use them. 
Again, TANSTAAFL. 
 
James 

> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> > From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Jame
s Pickering
> Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 10:39 PM
> To: oldtools@r...
> Cc: oldtools-request@r...
> Subject: [OldTools] Re: old tool wiki
> 
> > I don't contribute very often here so my name is probably unfamiliar to most
 of you. I think there is a lot of misunderstanding these days relating to the c
omposition and functioning of online Message Boards and Forums. There are severa
l excellent iterations of these implementations that are free and allow unlimite
d use (i.e. without regard to band width). Of course they are free because you g
rant the providers permission to insert related advertising banners at their con
venience. It has been my experience that the ads these days are neither excessiv
e or overly obtrusive. If you don't want the ads you have to pay a monthly fee -
- its TANSTAAFL (There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch). I have operated fre
e message Boards/Forums during the past few years with nary a problem.
> 
> > These Message Boards and Forums offer full feature editing, BB code or HTML 
formatting, inclusion of images .... and so on. Problems encountered in initiati
ng these facilities include:  finding an Administrator who has the time and know
ledge to make them tick and keep them going (old fogey retirees with some comput
er moxy are ideal) - a couple or so Moderators (to cover international time zone
s) to delete the inevitable porn posts or other nasties - AND ENOUGH ONGOING PAR
TICIPATION - otherwise they die on the vine.
> 
> Anyway, I have set up a dummy free Message Board:
> 
> http://members.boardhost.com/jamesicus/
> 
> And a dummy free Forum:
> 
> http://jpf.boardhost.com/index.php
> 
> > So that you can see what they look like. Play around with them - test featur
es: you cant hurt anything - ask questions here  - I will answer them to the bes
t of my ability.
> 
> James
> http://jp29.org/
> 

--
http://jp29.org/ - Portal to my Web Sites & Pages

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233710 James Pickering <jp29@c...> 2012‑10‑11 Re: Re: old tool wiki
As I replied to Micah:

Sure, so if that's a problem for the using community it shouldn't use them. 
Again, TANSTAAFL. 

I am just trying to point out what is out there these days -- I am not attemptin
g to promote or advocate.
 
James 

---- Joshua Clark  wrote: 
> > Micah summarizes what I've been trying to put into words all day. The OT lis
t is an (antiquated but fully functional) example of a "push" technology in whic
h the content is delivered to you while forums and other venues require you to "
pull" the content. The list is the way it is for a reason and it works well.  I 
participate in both and appreciate them for different reasons.
> 
> > I submit that there are a number (I can think of five offhand) of fully-fled
ged, active, and vibrant woodworking forums out there with hand-tool specific ar
eas, each with its on unique look and feel. These forums allow for inserting pic
tures in posts, buying and selling tools, and offer moderation to keep off-topic
 chatter to a minimum. Yet, we all choose to say here on the Porch. It's always 
interested me that there is very little cross-pollination between the various fo
rums and the Porch. 
> 
> Josh
> 
> 
> On Oct 11, 2012, at 10:40 PM, Micah Salb wrote:
> 
> > > But the problem with online message boards is that you have to go there.  
With list-serves, the emails come right to you.
> > 
> 

--
http://jp29.org/ - Portal to my Web Sites & Pages

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233701 Steve Fravel <cocobolo@s...> 2012‑10‑11 Re: old tool wiki
On Thu, 2012-10-11 at 15:31 -0700, Brent Beach wrote:
> All the topics we discuss on old tools could gradually migrate into the
> wiki and people would go to the wiki before asking a question.

I've often thought something like an OldTools wiki would be a good
project.  Not for me to set up, though; someone with some technical
abilities in the computer field would surely be far more successful in
that endeavor.

But I've also thought, just as often, that having the collective wisdom
of the porch-sitters distilled into a wiki could possibly have the
unintended and undesired effect of killing participation in the porch,
especially by newcomers.

I'm especially thinking of my approach to resolving computer problems.
I use Linux and I'm far from being a computer geek.  When I don't know
how to do something, what do I do?  Usually I bring up Google, type in a
few words related to my problem, and (almost) instantly the results pop
up.  A quick scan of the search results and I find, usually in a forum,
the answer to my question.  The problem has already been encountered,
discussed, resolved, and documented on some online forum.  No
participation, no human interaction, no getting to know the people on
the forum is necessary on my part.  That's precisely what I'm afraid of
should we do a wiki.

I know that some of the old timers here on the porch probably get a bit
tired of the same old questions popping up over and over again.  I
believe that the recent thread about the Leachmeister and the "Where did
so many of the original Galoots go" question at least briefly speaks to
that.  I suppose that a computer support forum that has 500,000+ members
really doesn't want or need to have the same questions posed in the
forum time after time.  That's a tremendous amount of bandwidth to
waste/pay for.  And on many of the support forums one often sees the
poor guy who makes the mistake of asking a question deemed too simple
derided unmercifully by the "elite" members of the forum.  But we're a
much smaller group, a niche group, if you will.  Really, IMHO, it is a
combination of the polite answering of the same old questions, the idle
chatter, the humor, the delightfully eloquent prose of some of our
members, the very real human interaction that we have here on the porch
that makes it what it is.  And what it is is a very special thing.  I
can't imagine any of the huge forums having anything even close to a
Galootaclaus event.  Or FMM.  Or flea market/auction/estate sale reports
and the associated gloating and the inevitable "You suck" comments.  Or
the wonderful civility and lack of flame wars that we have.

Now please don't anyone interpret all this to mean that I'm opposed to
the idea of a wiki, or to any changes to the list.  Really, a lot of
really neat and positive changes could be made.  Perhaps they could be
made in such a way that the list itself doesn't change; it merely gets
expanded to take advantage of newer technologies for those who are
comfortable with it.  But I'd like to go on record that I think any
changes ought to be carefully thought out.  We have something very
special here and I'd hate to see it lost to "progress".

Solo mis dos centavos, compadres...

-- Steve

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233714 "Adam R. Maxwell" <amaxwell@m...> 2012‑10‑11 Re: old tool wiki
On Oct 11, 2012, at 19:46 , Joshua Clark  wrote:

> > Micah summarizes what I've been trying to put into words all day. The OT lis
t is an (antiquated but fully functional) example of a "push" technology in whic
h the content is delivered to you while forums and other venues require you to "
pull" the content. The list is the way it is for a reason and it works well.  I 
participate in both and appreciate them for different reasons.

Funny that e-mail is called "antiquated" here on a list where some of us
use 200-year-old tools as a matter of course :).  Micah and Josh
summarize why I prefer the list to forums; mail just shows up in my
box, it's easy to see what's unread, and it's usually nicely threaded. 

Mentioning wiki seems to have stirred up a few people.  Just to clarify
a few things with respect to my suggestion:

  1) a wiki would not replace the porch or create Yet Another Forum

  2) a wiki would not replace GIC or any photosharing site

  4) it would be a _reference_ like DATAMP

A wiki is just a possible way to have multiple people contribute to a
document.  For instance, suppose we created an Atkins Assembly as
counterpart to Erik's stellar Disstonian Institute.  Atkins catalog info
+ color photos of Atkins saws would a way to start; anyone with an
account could edit and add content.

Yes, there are hosting challenges, spam issues, and administrative
overhead.  Maybe insurmountable, maybe not.  I'm guessing that there
would be (at most) a few dozen contributors.

Adam

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233702 John Leyden <leydenjl@g...> 2012‑10‑11 Re: old tool wiki
As Aristotle famously wrote a couple of thousand years ago, "There's
nothing new under the sun."

That truth has never stopped those who followed from talking and
learning, then forgetting, and talking and learning all over again.

I suppose The Old Tools List will be no different and I don't mind one
bit, wiki or no wiki.

To my mind the essential difference between a wiki and the current
archive search function is that some one or more people will have in
essence compiled an encyclopedia, replete with index, from the content
of all those past discussions. That's nice, but.... wouldn't you rather
be in your workshop building something tangible with wood or metal?

We now return to our regular programming.

Old Tools content: today I found a Stanley 750 3/4-inch socket chisel
quite literally laying on a Manhattan sidewalk. No handle, no rust, and
just the business end. It had once even been lapped and hollow ground.
With a little TLC this gem will be back in working condition just in
time for Galootaclaus.

JL----------------------------------------------------------------------
--

233712 Don Schwartz <dkschwar@t...> 2012‑10‑11 Re: Re: old tool wiki
On 10/11/2012 8:40 PM, Micah Salb wrote:
> > But the problem with online message boards is that you have to go there.  Wi
th list-serves, the emails come right to you.
>
> Micah
>
>
Exactly. Like subscribing to any service. Decide once, and it keeps on 
coming. Forgetting ain't an option. You can quickly pick and choose 
which posts you wish to read, and which to skip over. With a forum it's 
all in your face all of the time. And just another place to surf.

my C$.02
Don
-- 
"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without 
evidence." Christopher Hitchens, 2007
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233708 Joshua Clark <jclark@h...> 2012‑10‑11 Re: Re: old tool wiki
Micah summarizes what I've been trying to put into words all day. The OT
list is an (antiquated but fully functional) example of a "push"
technology in which the content is delivered to you while forums and
other venues require you to "pull" the content. The list is the way it
is for a reason and it works well. I participate in both and appreciate
them for different reasons.

I submit that there are a number (I can think of five offhand) of fully-
fledged, active, and vibrant woodworking forums out there with hand-tool
specific areas, each with its on unique look and feel. These forums
allow for inserting pictures in posts, buying and selling tools, and
offer moderation to keep off-topic chatter to a minimum. Yet, we all
choose to say here on the Porch. It's always interested me that there is
very little cross-pollination between the various forums and the
Porch.=20 Josh

On Oct 11, 2012, at 10:40 PM, Micah Salb wrote:

> But the problem with online message boards is that you have to go
> there. With list-serves, the emails come right to you.
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------

233713 Anthony Seo <tonyseo@p...> 2012‑10‑11 RE: Re: old tool wiki
At 10:40 PM 10/11/2012, Micah Salb wrote:

>But the problem with online message boards is that you have to go 
>there.  With list-serves, the emails come right to you.

Amen!  I have seen other lists migrate from email format to boards 
and they either wither and die or only appeal to the hard 
core.   Plus,  those boards tend to get overly fragmented by topic 
and it get's intimidating both to manage and to follow.  Plus many of 
those boards are under constant attack from spammers and hackers.

Yahoo has one foot in the grave, there are only two of the 
re-enacting groups on there that ever get any traffic and I moderate 
a couple of others dealing with that topic and rarely do they get 
used other than for spam.  It's takes time to moderate users, if you 
got on auto accept, then you get the spammers again.

IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T LOOK FOR AN EXCUSE TO MAKE IT  BROKE!

And I can guarantee that if someone can't figure out how to upload a 
picture to Flickr or any one of the other photo sharing sites out 
there, they sure as heck ain't gonna know how to use photo software 
to edit and resize pics.

Tony (on the soap box late tonight..good thing there is whiskey 
within reach...)

                         Olde River Hard Goods
                     http://www.oldetoolshop.com
                                   TSMusic on Facebook
                http://www.facebook.com/tonyseomusic

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233705 Micah Salb <msalb@l...> 2012‑10‑12 RE: Re: old tool wiki
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233707 Micah Salb <msalb@l...> 2012‑10‑12 RE: Re: old tool wiki
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233715 Micah Salb <msalb@l...> 2012‑10‑12 RE: old tool wiki
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233733 "Blake Ashley" <Blake.Ashley@t...> 2012‑10‑12 Re: Re: old tool wiki
IMHO, the old too list is fine as it. I would like to see an associated
wiki because the archives of the list and the brains of the Galoots
contain a mind-boggling amount of otherwise lost lore that needs to be
distilled and preserved in one place for the benefit of posterity. A
book would be best, but that is a daunting task for one person. So a
wiki may be the best way. Blake
------------------------------------------------------------------------

233729 <roygriggs@c...> 2012‑10‑12 Re: old tool wiki
Build it and they will come....
--
roy griggs
roygriggs@c...

---- Ken Shepard  wrote: 
> The discussion seems to have wandered off a bit.  As Adam says, the
> original suggestion was not to replace the list with a wiki or forum
> format, but to someway capture the knowledge contained in the archives and
> minds of current users in a format that is easily accessible.
> 
> I don't want the list to change one bit, but it would be great to have a
> place where we all could pool our collective knowledge and photos of old
> tools.
> 
> Ken Shepard
> 
> On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 11:19 PM, Adam R. Maxwell  wrote:
> 
> >
> > On Oct 11, 2012, at 19:46 , Joshua Clark  wrote:
> >
> > > Micah summarizes what I've been trying to put into words all day. The OT
> > list is an (antiquated but fully functional) example of a "push" technology
> > in which the content is delivered to you while forums and other venues
> > require you to "pull" the content. The list is the way it is for a reason
> > and it works well.  I participate in both and appreciate them for different
> > reasons.
> >
> > Funny that e-mail is called "antiquated" here on a list where some of us
> > use 200-year-old tools as a matter of course :).  Micah and Josh
> > summarize why I prefer the list to forums; mail just shows up in my
> > box, it's easy to see what's unread, and it's usually nicely threaded.
> >
> > Mentioning wiki seems to have stirred up a few people.  Just to clarify
> > a few things with respect to my suggestion:
> >
> >   1) a wiki would not replace the porch or create Yet Another Forum
> >
> >   2) a wiki would not replace GIC or any photosharing site
> >
> >   4) it would be a _reference_ like DATAMP
> >
> > A wiki is just a possible way to have multiple people contribute to a
> > document.  For instance, suppose we created an Atkins Assembly as
> > counterpart to Erik's stellar Disstonian Institute.  Atkins catalog info
> > + color photos of Atkins saws would a way to start; anyone with an
> > account could edit and add content.
> >
> > Yes, there are hosting challenges, spam issues, and administrative
> > overhead.  Maybe insurmountable, maybe not.  I'm guessing that there
> > would be (at most) a few dozen contributors.
> >
> > Adam
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
> >
> > To change your subscription options:
> > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
> >
> > To read the FAQ:
> > http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
> >
> > OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
> >
> > OldTools@r...
> > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
> 
> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
> 
> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
> 
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
> 
> OldTools@r...
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools

------------------------------------------------------------------------

233727 Ken Shepard <waruba@c...> 2012‑10‑12 Re: old tool wiki
The discussion seems to have wandered off a bit.  As Adam says, the
original suggestion was not to replace the list with a wiki or forum
format, but to someway capture the knowledge contained in the archives and
minds of current users in a format that is easily accessible.

I don't want the list to change one bit, but it would be great to have a
place where we all could pool our collective knowledge and photos of old
tools.

Ken Shepard

On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 11:19 PM, Adam R. Maxwell  wrote:

>
> On Oct 11, 2012, at 19:46 , Joshua Clark  wrote:
>
> > Micah summarizes what I've been trying to put into words all day. The OT
> list is an (antiquated but fully functional) example of a "push" technology
> in which the content is delivered to you while forums and other venues
> require you to "pull" the content. The list is the way it is for a reason
> and it works well.  I participate in both and appreciate them for different
> reasons.
>
> Funny that e-mail is called "antiquated" here on a list where some of us
> use 200-year-old tools as a matter of course :).  Micah and Josh
> summarize why I prefer the list to forums; mail just shows up in my
> box, it's easy to see what's unread, and it's usually nicely threaded.
>
> Mentioning wiki seems to have stirred up a few people.  Just to clarify
> a few things with respect to my suggestion:
>
>   1) a wiki would not replace the porch or create Yet Another Forum
>
>   2) a wiki would not replace GIC or any photosharing site
>
>   4) it would be a _reference_ like DATAMP
>
> A wiki is just a possible way to have multiple people contribute to a
> document.  For instance, suppose we created an Atkins Assembly as
> counterpart to Erik's stellar Disstonian Institute.  Atkins catalog info
> + color photos of Atkins saws would a way to start; anyone with an
> account could edit and add content.
>
> Yes, there are hosting challenges, spam issues, and administrative
> overhead.  Maybe insurmountable, maybe not.  I'm guessing that there
> would be (at most) a few dozen contributors.
>
> Adam
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>
> OldTools@r...
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------

233731 Bill Taggart <w.taggart@v...> 2012‑10‑12 Re: Re: old tool wiki
On 10/11/2012 10:40 PM, Micah Salb wrote:
> > But the problem with online message boards is that you have to go there.  Wi
th list-serves, the emails come right to you.

Every forum of which I am a member (several) have the ability for you to 
subscribe to threads so that you receive any new messages in your in-box 
and also to subscribe to forum sections to receive a notification any 
time a new topic is posted. Then all you need to do is click a link and 
there you are.

- Bill T.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

233732 Bill Taggart <w.taggart@v...> 2012‑10‑12 Re: Re: old tool wiki
On 10/11/2012 10:46 PM, Joshua Clark wrote:
> > I submit that there are a number (I can think of five offhand) of fully-fled
ged, active, and vibrant woodworking forums out there with hand-tool specific ar
eas, each with its on unique look and feel. These forums allow for inserting pic
tures in posts, buying and selling tools, and offer moderation to keep off-topic
 chatter to a minimum. Yet, we all choose to say here on the Porch. It's always 
interested me that there is very little cross-pollination between the various fo
rums and the Porch.
>
By the same token, I also know we have lost a couple of former regular 
participants here to those other forums. Todd Hughes comes to mind. He 
used to be a very regular (and entertaining) participant here, but I 
haven't seen a thing from him here in a long time - yet he is a regular 
at one of those other forums to which you refer.

- Bill T.
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233756 Christopher Swingley <cswingle@g...> 2012‑10‑12 Re: old tool wiki
Jesse,

On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 1:03 PM, Jesse Walker  wrote:
> I searched the archives for "router plane" and came back with many posts
> that had broken links, like a review on Lee Valley's router plane, pictures
> of a handmade scraper for the router plane, etc.

Certainly true.  One of the problems with the Internet.  It's so easy
to put stuff onto it, and so easy for stuff to disappear or move.

> Would a compromise be a better way of archiving the emails?  Is it hard to
> write a script to grab pictures from the links in an email and save the
> actual file, and not just the link, in the archive?

I'm sure something like that could be done, but there's no way I'd
want to pay for the storage or bandwidth it'd take to follow and
download every link to every "what-is-it" and "look what I made"
image.  Rather, I'd encourage posters to think about how best to
describe what it is they're discussing in words, using links to images
as a last resort.  Obviously, there are times where an image really
does "speak" 1,000 words, and there's no substitute for an image when
you're trying to show off your fabulous wazzit or newly finished roll
top desk.  But most of those sorts of images are transitory in nature
anyway.  Post-'you suck' / 'you've got an eighteenth century blurfl
rubber there!' / 'great desk!' maybe those images weren't really all
that archival to begin with.

The other *major* issue with images is copyright.  When you send an
email with a bunch of text that you've written, it's your words, sent
by you to a public List that is archived.  I think I'm pretty safe in
including it.  But it's more difficult for me (or another archivist)
to know whether an image being downloaded is something I can
re-publish.  That photo of a Lee Valley router plane that was linked
in an OldTools message, for example.  I probably don't have the right
to display that on my site because it's no longer taking the viewer to
Lee Valley's site where they're hoping to do business selling said
router plane.

In any case, the Archive needn't be thought of as THE ARCHIVE.  If
you've got an idea for how to scrape the list and produce something
better than my creaky old Perl (gaak!) script does, go for it!  I'd
love the opportunity to ditch MySQL on my server...

Cheers,

Chris
-- 
Christopher Swingley
Fairbanks, Alaska
http://swingleydev.com/
cswingle@g...
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233752 Jesse Walker <jwalker147@h...> 2012‑10‑12 Re: old tool wiki
One disadvantage to the archives is that links contained in them are often
broken.  I was going to send an email to ask about the proper technique to
using a router plane (I have both a Miller Falls and a Lie-Nielsen), as I
was having problems with the chip curling up into the joint between the
blade and the holder for the blade, but refrained from asking for fear that
it had been posted before.

I searched the archives for "router plane" and came back with many posts
that had broken links, like a review on Lee Valley's router plane, pictures
of a handmade scraper for the router plane, etc.

Would a compromise be a better way of archiving the emails?  Is it hard to
write a script to grab pictures from the links in an email and save the
actual file, and not just the link, in the archive?

Should we make instructions to standardize how we post pictures, or have a
couple of options, to make it easier to write said script?

I use gmail for my emailing (I have it pull from my hotmail), and it has a
"labs gadget" that automatically displays picture previews linked to picasa
and flickr, and imbeds youtube videos that are linked.  I don't know if you
could steal the script from them, or use another google application to
"archive the archive."

Another invaluable benefit of the Porch that I haven't seen mentioned, is
the use it has when I can show my wife the *daily* digest of 10-50+ emails,
and say, "look, I'm not the only one!!"

Jesse
------------------------------------------------------------------------

233761 Peter <p-j-h@w...> 2012‑10‑13 Re: Re: old tool wiki
Yeah, sure I'd like to go out with her but my 66 year old wife of 43 years might
 object.
And that too is one very good reason to stick with the Old Tools format. NO Adve
rtising!!

Cheers
PeterH in Perth

..........................
Anyway, I have set up a dummy free Message Board:

http://members.boardhost.com/jamesicus/

And a dummy free Forum:

http://jpf.boardhost.com/index.php

So that you can see what they look like. Play around with them

------------------------------------------------------------------------


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