Randy Roeder... where are you??

The ages old linseed oil controversy continues! Just in case anyone forgets
my rantings... the only reason Linseed oil was used by the 'oldtimers' is
cause it was cheap and it was available. If they had had access to modern
finishing technology, they would have avoided it like the plague and gone
with either shellac or a true varnish. Linseed oil, as mentioned, is a
lousy vapor barrier, it stinks forever, it will bleed all over in warm
weather, it will stick the plane to surfaces when it bleeds and it will
take all those nice clear beech stocks and make them look like a Kmart
special. If you want the wood to swell to close up some splits, try a
diluted varnish (ie; wiping varnish) that will dry and form a suitable
skin. Or simply wipe or brush on some orange shellac...  my favorite finish
for wood planes. Ever look at an old untouched plane that was heavily
treated with linseed oil? The ends are all gunked up from exudate and the
grain is almost nonexistant.

Nuff said. Randy... your turn.

At 9:16 PM -0500 6/15/99, Douglas S Caprette wrote:
>On Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:31:21 -0700 Ron Hock <ron@h...> writes:
>>> The most reasonable proposal I've seen so far calls for 1/2 linseed
>>> oil, and 1/2 mineral spirits. I'll end -up a couple of the junkers,
>>and see what happens. details and results to follow....
>>
>>First, I question the addition of the solvent. if the goal is to fill
>>the pores of the wood with something to retard the movement of water
>>(and thus the movement of the wood) you'd want all the solid material
>>in there that you can get. Besides, the solvent is going to take a
>looong
>>time to get out.
>
>Agreed.  (then again, what do I know?)
>
>>
>>Second, Why linseed oil? It's lousy at stopping water vapor and if you
>>let this process (the ooze) happen passively it seems to me that
>>you'll only fill the largest pores while letting zillions of little ones
>stay
>>mostly clear
>
>To the contrary the nature of capillary action is such that the narrowest
>pores will be better filled that the wider ones.
>
>Linseed oil is used because it is all the old-timers (in Europe) had.  I
>think I'd stick with tung oil.  Regardless, it is not being used in an
>attempt
>to seal the wood, it is being used to totally impregnate the wood.
>
>. If you can put the plane into a vacuum tank (like a
>>paint pressure pot,) pull a modest vacuum on it, wait an hour or two,
>then
>>replace the evacuated air with the oil, you can penetrate several
>>inches of any wood with total saturation of the oil.
>>
>
>Sure.  But it is a lot easier to just put one end of the wood in oil and
>leave the other end out in the air and let the oil wick up through it.
>Try it with a piece of scrap.  It's pretty neat.
>
>>If you must use the linseed oil, I'd suggest using it straight up. But
>>if you want the best water vapor barrier this side of some plastic
>>resin, shellac is king. It's not the best for liquid water but is
>>reportedly so for water vapor. Hey, all those lac bug larvae can't be
>>wrong.
>
>How do you saturate a plane with shellac?  I'd think the best you could
>do
>is coat the upper surfaces, leaving the sole uncoated, and that sounds
>like a real good way to warp the plane.
>
>I had thought that having oil continue to seep out of the wood
>for the next 25 years was an advantage to the process, not a
>disadvantage.  I don't think the small amount that would get transferred
>to the workpiece would cause any subsequent problems with finishing.
>Silicon oil--yes.  Linseed, no.
>
>We've heard from one fellow who did two planes wihth unboiled linseed
>oil 25 years ago and hates the result.  But a couple of monthe ago we
>heard from another who routinely does it.  Maybe it's largely a matter
>of taste?  I'm not going to argue (well, maybe I just did) with those who
>have more experience than I.  But it seems those who are experienced are
>not in agreement either.
>
>
>--
>Regards,
>Douglas S Caprette, Greenbelt, MD USA
>"There is no way to peace.  Peace is the way." -- Ghandi
>
>--

Gary Roberts <groberts@s...>
Dedham, MA...Antique tools, Art Pottery, Hong Kong cinema, what else is there?

Gary and others wrote...
>
>Ever look at an old untouched plane that was heavily
>treated with linseed oil? The ends are all gunked up from exudate and >the
>grain is almost nonexistent.

My only eggs-perience with linseed oil is with shovel handles.  In my
earlier life I was a contractor in SW Montana (My old partner has done work
on Harrison's ranch in Wyoming) An old timer told me to soak shovel handles
in Linseed.  SO fill a long PVC 2" pipe with boiled linseed and let the
shovel sit.  It works great for old dry handles but... it does leave a
sticky residue.  No big deal with a shovel.  Over time with dirt and what
not the handle is plenty clean and very strong.  I still do it with rakes,
shovels, sledgehammers what ever where the residue doesn't seem to matter.
Planes might scare me for what it's worth.

Charlie Nunemaker
Wilmette, IL
M-WTCA

Gary Roberts wrote:

> Randy Roeder... where are you??
>

I'm still around.

Gary and I had a royal battle over this when the list was still young.  As time
has passed, I've begun to come around to Gary's way of thinking (though not
entirely).

Currently, I don't use anything on most of my my wooden planes. If I absolutely
can't stand the color     of a plane, or want to touch up an area that has been
scratched and doesn't match the rest of the tool...
Well, then, I might put to or three drops of a dilute oil/mineral spirits mix
on a
cotton rag and very lightly go over the tool. Two or three drops of  such a mix
is
enough for an entire molding plane-- endgrain is approached with extreme cautio
n
because it goes dark right away.

I really enjoy the look of raw beech that has never been treated with anything

Well... actually I figured that Msr. Roeder was still there. But at last he
has been won over to THE WAY from the Dark Side (last ever Star Wars
reference from me). Hear ye one and all and stray not from THE WAY. Linseed
oil is the bane of all things good and wonderful in the world of wooden
planes. He who applies said OIL OF THE DIVIL will burn in the hell of
collectors...

At 9:27 AM -0500 6/19/99, Roeder/Kraft wrote:
>Gary Roberts wrote:
>
>> Randy Roeder... where are you??
>>
>
>I'm still around.
>
>Gary and I had a royal battle over this when the list was still young.  As
>time
>has passed, I've begun to come around to Gary's way of thinking (though not
>entirely).
>
>Currently, I don't use anything on most of my my wooden planes. If I
>absolutely
>can't stand the color     of a plane, or want to touch up an area that has
>been
>scratched and doesn't match the rest of the tool...
>Well, then, I might put to or three drops of a dilute oil/mineral spirits
>mix on a
>cotton rag and very lightly go over the tool. Two or three drops of  such
>a mix is
>enough for an entire molding plane-- endgrain is approached with extreme
>caution
>because it goes dark right away.
>
>I really enjoy the look of raw beech that has never been treated with
>anything --
>WOW!  Like a number of  others, I will consider paying a premium for a
>molder in
>nice shape that has the raw beech or birch look.  I haven't checked with the
>Church Fathers lately, but I believe that it was Augustine who stated that
>putting
>anything on a plane manufactured before 1820 was a serious matter of
>conscience
>which should be confessed immediately or eternal damnation in the lowest
>level of
>hell would be the inevitable result.
>
>Randy Roeder                         The repaint houses, not old tools guy
>
>
>
>
>>
>> The ages old linseed oil controversy continues! Just in case anyone forgets
>> my rantings... the only reason Linseed oil was used by the 'oldtimers' is
>> cause it was cheap and it was available. If they had had access to modern
>> finishing technology, they would have avoided it like the plague and gone
>> with either shellac or a true varnish. Linseed oil, as mentioned, is a
>> lousy vapor barrier, it stinks forever, it will bleed all over in warm
>> weather, it will stick the plane to surfaces when it bleeds and it will
>> take all those nice clear beech stocks and make them look like a Kmart
>> special. If you want the wood to swell to close up some splits, try a
>> diluted varnish (ie; wiping varnish) that will dry and form a suitable
>> skin. Or simply wipe or brush on some orange shellac...  my favorite finish
>> for wood planes. Ever look at an old untouched plane that was heavily
>> treated with linseed oil? The ends are all gunked up from exudate and the
>> grain is almost nonexistant.
>>
>> Nuff said. Randy... your turn.

Gary Roberts <groberts@s...>
8 Stormy Hill, Dedham, MA 02026
The Toolemera Press: Limited edition trade catalog reprints
Books and ephemera on early tools and trades. By email only...

Sir Randy wrote:
> I really enjoy the look of raw beech that has never been treated with
anything --
> WOW!  Like a number of  others, I will consider paying a premium for a
molder in
> nice shape that has the raw beech or birch look.

Which reminds me of a question I wanted to ask...

Recently I found some planes (which are now in someone
else's shop) which were in their original unfinished beech
condition.  BUT the numbnuts dealer I got them from had
marked prices on the toe (endgrain) with some sort of felt-tip
pen or "Sharpie".  Of course, the ink immediately went into
the unfinished endgrain, and I do not know if there is any
way to remove it.  Anybody have a suggestion for removing
these ink marks???

dave wolverton @ dave's home for wayward benches

Dave... Sharpies are used in conservation circles to replace black color on
metallic objects as a temporary fix. The ink is alcholol soluble, so if you
repeatedly soak the offending area with a dampened sponge or rag, you
should be able to draw out the ink. Maybe not every bit, but quite a lot of
it.
>
>Which reminds me of a question I wanted to ask...
>
>Recently I found some planes (which are now in someone
>else's shop) which were in their original unfinished beech
>condition.  BUT the numbnuts dealer I got them from had
>marked prices on the toe (endgrain) with some sort of felt-tip
>pen or "Sharpie".  Of course, the ink immediately went into
>the unfinished endgrain, and I do not know if there is any
>way to remove it.  Anybody have a suggestion for removing
>these ink marks???
>
>dave wolverton @ dave's home for wayward benches
>
>--

Gary Roberts <groberts@s...>
Dedham, MA...Antique tools, Art Pottery, Hong Kong cinema, what else is there?