Hello-
        Did a bit of "shopping" today.  One stop.
        Most of the stuff-the cast iron-was easy to identify, but I'm not sure
about one...  Here's what I got.  Two (flat) cabinet scrapers.  An unmarked
chamfer shave.  Stanley #271.  2 concave spikeshaves.  Stanley #90.
Stanley #130.  Stanley #112.  Big ole wood bodied jointer.
        'Bout that jointer-anyone have an idea what I have here?  Shows almost
no
signs of use, sole looks very nice.  Butt stamped "2 1/2", with no hammer
marks.  Terribly uncomfortable tote-too small for my hand, with a nasty
spur.  OAL about 22".
        Cap iron marked "SOLID STEEL WARRANTED in two lines, and MATHIESON & SO
NS
LB (not sure about that last character) in a half oval, the word "GLASGOW"
on the base of the stamp, with a crescent moon facing up with a five point
star in the center of the half oval.
        Nice forged blade, tapering in thickness from edge to end.  Edge has be
en
sharpened.  Blade is marked "ALEX. MATHIESON $ SON WARRANTED"in two lines
in a tombstone stamp, "CAST STEEL" at the base of the tombstone, and the
same crescent and star.
        Original wedge.
        On the body, just forward of the throat, is a decal.  Probably three
colors originally, I haven't cleaned it for fear of damaging it.  In an
oval it says "THE GUARANTEE OF QUALITY" with "MATHIESON" on a banner across
the oval.
        A couple spots of red paint near the back end.
        So, what have I got here?  Any real reason not to tune it up, change th
e
tote, and put it to use?  Its MUCH lighter than the old Bailey No. 8C I've
been using for years (don't let anyone kid you-those corrugations are to
_lighten_ the plane-run a No. 9 for a 12 hour day and you will be thinking
about ANYTHING to lighten the load).
Thanks for any info/advice,
Jim Colburn

Jim Colburn asked about:

> ... Big ole wood bodied jointer.
> 'Bout that jointer-anyone have an idea what I have here?
> Shows almost no signs of use, sole looks very nice.  Butt stamped
> "2 1/2", with no hammer marks.  Terribly uncomfortable tote-too
> small for my hand, with a nasty spur.  OAL about 22".
> Cap iron marked "SOLID STEEL WARRANTED in two lines, and
> MATHIESON & SONS LB (not sure about that last character) in a
> half oval, the word "GLASGOW" on the base of the stamp, with a
> crescent moon facing up with a five point star in the center of
> the half oval.

> Nice forged blade, tapering in thickness from edge to end.  Edge
> has been sharpened.  Blade is marked "ALEX. MATHIESON $ SON
> WARRANTED"in two lines in a tombstone stamp, "CAST STEEL" at the
> base of the tombstone, and the same crescent and star.
> Original wedge.
> On the body, just forward of the throat, is a decal.  Probably
> three colors originally, I haven't cleaned it for fear of damaging
> it.  In an oval it says "THE GUARANTEE OF QUALITY" with "MATHIESON"
> on a banner across the oval.

Alexander Mathieson began planemaking in Glasgow in 1822 (according
to Goodman), and carried on under that name until 1853. At that point
Alexander Mathieson & Son (Ltd.) was formed, and this firm continued  the
planemaking business in Glasgow from 1854 to 1966. Their (Ken
Roberts reprint) 1899 price list shows the 22" (trying plane)
available with 2 3/8" or 2 1/2" width irons. The 2 1/2 on the heel
of your plane would indicate the width of the iron.

The up-turned crescent moon with the star (the 1899 price list shows
an 8 point star) is their trade mark "For Best Quality."

While Mathieson is a common maker (though I don't see them much
around here), the presence of the decal may make your plane somewhat
unusual. Though possibly indicative of later manufacture, it might
render this plane somewhat collectible. Maybe one of our list
members from the other side of the pond could comment on this?

Regarding the tote. There was a style of closed tote designed
specifically for a three fingered grip - i.e., the forefinger does
not grip the tote, but, rather, points forward as is common when
gripping a saw. These are among my favorites. Have you tried it
this way?

Given the condition and possible collectible value of this plane,
I'd urge you to consider *not* replacing the tote - if it is
original and unaltered.

Don McConnell
Knox County, Ohio

Hello-
        I asked about a
>> ... Big ole wood bodied jointer.
And at 08:13 AM 6/15/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Alexander Mathieson began planemaking in Glasgow in 1822 <snip>
        Thank you very much for the information.

>Regarding the tote. There was a style of closed tote designed
>specifically for a three fingered grip - i.e., the forefinger does
>not grip the tote, but, rather, points forward as is common when
>gripping a saw. These are among my favorites. Have you tried it
>this way?
        Tried it, having made several planes using totes like that.
Unfortunately, my hand is too large!
>
>Given the condition and possible collectible value of this plane,
>I'd urge you to consider *not* replacing the tote - if it is
>original and unaltered.
        Well its dusty, but other than that its stock.
        Again, my thanks.
Jim Colburn

~  -----Original Message-----
~  From: owner-oldtools@l...
~  [mailto:owner-oldtools@l...]On Behalf Of Don
~  McConnell
~  Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 2:13 PM
~  To: oldtools@l...
~  Cc: jc60714@n...
~  Subject: Re: Plane question....
~
~  Regarding the tote. There was a style of closed tote designed
~  specifically for a three fingered grip - i.e., the forefinger does
~  not grip the tote, but, rather, points forward as is common when
~  gripping a saw.

I can see the point (pun recognised) of the accusatory forefinger when
using a saw, but is there any value in having the same grip on a
plane?

Just asking (again)!
Jeff

Jeff Gorman wrote:
> I can see the point (pun recognised) of the accusatory forefinger when
> using a saw, but is there any value in having the same grip on a
> plane?

I don't think it's the main reason, but as, for example Garrett Hack (I
believe) suggests, when using Bailey-like planes the push-hand
index-finger can be used to adjust the depth-control "on the fly".

But more practically, I think the issue is that for many people (myself
included) there is really only (comfortably) room on most planes for three
fingers in the tote. Given that, it's just much more comfortable and
natural --as well as probably safer-- to extend the index finger along the
side of the upper part of the iron than to place the pinky somewhere.

N

In a message dated 6/16/99 4:43:00 AM, nichael@s... writes:

<<
... I think the issue is that for many people (myself included) there is
really only (comfortably) room on most planes for three fingers in the tote.
Given that, it's just much more comfortable and natural --as well as probably
safer-- to extend the index finger along the side of the upper part of the
iron than to place the pinky somewhere.
>>

I've noticed that my "accusatory finger" perfectly fits the underside of the
frog of the Type 12 to Type 15 planes.

Perhaps there's a "Type 12 to Type 15" gene in the human genome. If so, then
I'm undoubtedly a carrier of that gene.

   At 07:50 AM 6/16/99 +0100, Jeff Gorman wrote:

     ~  [mailto:owner-oldtools@listserv.law.cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Don
     ~  McConnell
     ~
     ~
     ~  Regarding the tote. There was a style of closed tote designed
     ~   specifically  for  a three fingered grip - i.e., the forefinger
     does
     ~  not grip the tote, but, rather, points forward as is common when
     ~  gripping a saw.
     I  can  see the point (pun recognised) of the accusatory forefinger
     when
     using a saw, but is there any value in having the same grip on a
     plane?
     Just asking (again)!
     Jeff
     --

   I  find  that  the  extended  forefinger on the plane helps me keep my
   forearm  aligned  with  the  body of the plane.  With all four fingers
   wrapped  around  the  tote (when they fit), it feels like the plane is
   trying  to rotate in my hand.   That is the same reason the forefinger
   our of the saw handle "feels" better.
   +---------------------------------------------------------------------
   -+
   | Scott Stager                  Internet: ccstager@showme.missouri.edu
   |
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   listserv@listserv.law.cornell.edu Archive:
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   sparingly.

On Wed, 16 Jun 1999, Nichael Cramer wrote:

> Jeff Gorman wrote:
> > I can see the point (pun recognised) of the accusatory forefinger when
> > using a saw, but is there any value in having the same grip on a
> > plane?
> But more practically, I think the issue is that for many people (myself
> included) there is really only (comfortably) room on most planes for three
> fingers in the tote. Given that, it's just much more comfortable and
> natural --as well as probably safer-- to extend the index finger along the
> side of the upper part of the iron than to place the pinky somewhere.

        I *always* extend my forefinger when using a plane -- it feels
more precise and comfortable, and seems to angle my wrist better than the
alternative grip.  Doesn't everyone do this?

        -- Andrew Barss

Andrew Barss wrote:

>         I *always* extend my forefinger when using a plane -- it feels
> more precise and comfortable, and seems to angle my wrist better than the
> alternative grip.  Doesn't everyone do this?

If it's especially squirrelly grain, or if I'm not in the best mood, I
often find myself extending my middle finger, but I'm not sure if
this is a comfort issue of more or an editorial statement. I do know
that when took a few whacks at a nice piece of pine this past weekend,
with my son's type 19 #5 1/4 (smallish jack plane, Jeff), I had my
index finger in its normal position, laid-up against the side of the
frog, my corrosive sweat eating away the cast iron in no small
quantities.

So yeah, I extend my fingah. For the browser-enabled:
http://www.concentric.net/~Odeen/oldtools/pat_planing.jpg

What a pleasure to post something other than a shellac notice or
pathetic FS ad.

Paddy
http://www.concentric.net/~Odeen/oldtools/

At 2:46 PM -0700 6/16/99, Andrew Barss wrote:
>       I *always* extend my forefinger when using a plane -- .....
>Doesn't everyone do this?

        Well, 'at depends.  Up to #4-size, forefinger on side of frog, and
sometimes thumb on the other side when using #3 or #2 (yes, I use it).  #5
and up, everything's wrapped around the tote.  But then, my right
forefinger is one third shorter than most of your'n.
                Tom Holloway

--- Andrew Barss <barss@U...> wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Jun 1999, Nichael Cramer wrote:
>
> > Jeff Gorman wrote:
> > > I can see the point (pun recognised) of the
> accusatory forefinger when
> > > using a saw, but is there any value in having
> the same grip on a
> > > plane?
> > But more practically, I think the issue is that
> for many people (myself
> > included) there is really only (comfortably) room
> on most planes for three
> > fingers in the tote. Given that, it's just much
> more comfortable and
> > natural --as well as probably safer-- to extend
> the index finger along the
> > side of the upper part of the iron than to place
> the pinky somewhere.
>
>
>       I *always* extend my forefinger when using a plane
> -- it feels
> more precise and comfortable, and seems to angle my
> wrist better than the
> alternative grip.  Doesn't everyone do this?
>
>       -- Andrew Barss
>
>
> --Andrew:  I know I do.  I'll ask your question again:  "Doesn't
everyone do this?"   sincerely; GAM
> listserv@l...
> Archive:
> http://mailmunch.law.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/archives/OLDTOOLS
>
>

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Hello-
At 09:48 PM 6/16/99 -0700, you wrote:
>>      I *always* extend my forefinger when using a plane
>> -- it feels
>> more precise and comfortable, and seems to angle my
>> wrist better than the
>> alternative grip.  Doesn't everyone do this?
> --Andrew:  I know I do.  I'll ask your question again:  "Doesn't
>everyone do this?"   sincerely; GAM
        No.  On light cuts (smoothing, mostly), working right handed I do.  Hea
vy
stuff-jointing, etc-or working left-handed, I don't.  It just doesn't feel
natural I guess.
Jim Colburn

In the interest of 'edit severely' attributions snipped...

after discussion about digit alignment whilst planing....
Patrick Olguin wrote:

> So yeah, I extend my fingah. For the browser-enabled:
> http://www.concentric.net/~Odeen/oldtools/pat_planing.jpg
>
> What a pleasure to post something other than a shellac notice or
> pathetic FS ad.

and whilst I find myself sincerely echoing the comment about being able to post
something,
Paddy has revealed too much.

That picture, Paddy - fine grip, but entirely the wrong stance.  You need to be
stand
behind the plane, the right wrist straight, the forearm in the same plane (pun)
as the
timber.  This enable you to place your weight into the cut by leaning into it.
Then your left hand - close it around the knob, if you need guidance, then wrap

a single finger below the sole to caress the side of the wood as you shave it.

Of  course, for the very finest final cut you may want to place just the left
thumb
atop the very nose of the plane, aplying heavy down force while curling the
remaining
fingers under to set the camber of your blade on the high ground (yes, even my
smoother has a
tiny, tiny camber to it)

Richard

Who speaks solely (pun) in jest.
In Worcestershire.