Hello again, (wiser than I) Galoots:

So I recently pick up this Type 16, #3C at an antique
mall.  To call it a user might even be generous.
Someone decided that Stanley should have adorned the
rosewood tote and knob in a bright green enamel?!?
Being the beginner kinda bottom feeder that I am I
felt sorry for him (the plane, not the seller), forked
over the $18 I talked the gal down to (remember, I'm
new at this - that was the best I could do), and let
him follow me home.

Anyway, on to my question.  He's got the new style
lever cap with the kidney shaped hole.  On the
underside of the lever cap, down toward the front
edge is stamped, apparently by machine, in deep
characters (pardon the poor ascii art):

            |-(imagine a kidney shaped hole here)
     |     O    /|
     | ________/ |
     |  /        |
     | /   PAT.  |
     | NO.1918750 |
     +------------+

I see in Walter's book that this is the patent
number for the kidney shaped hole, but I haven't yet
found any reference to any patent numbers being
stamped on any parts.  Have I just not looked deep
enough yet or is this just another anomaly?

Dorian Reeder
Yukon, OK, USA

Inquiring sponges want to know...

In a message dated 6/9/99 4:12:47 PM, dorianr@s... writes:

<<
... On the underside of the lever cap, down toward the front edge is stamped,
apparently by machine ...
>>

It's cast into the lever cap.

<<
... imagine a kidney shaped hole here ...
>>

This patent number is stamped on all kidney-shaped lever caps for about the
first 17 years of such manufacture (after which the patent expired).

That would be 1934 to 1951 or so, which would include Type 16s, Type 17s, and
early Type 18s.

I have nearly every size of Stanley/Bailey with this lever cap (#3 through #8
only, no #1s or #2s).

I also have a late #20 which has such a lever cap. A magnificant tool.

The last bedrocks were made with this lever cap as well. How that affected
the Bedrock's frog (see below) is unknown, as I haven't seen any examples.

The Stanley/Bailey frog and lever cap screw were changed at the same time the
kidney-shaped lever cap was introduced.

The kidney-shaped lever cap really only works well with the new type lever
cap screw.

The new type lever cap screw will work with keyhole lever caps (and frogs) if
the screw is shortened by about 5/32" and the end is chamfered.

#8s (and #608s) work best with the new type lever cap screw (as-manufactured
if the tool is of 1934 or later manufacture, or modified if the tool is of
prior to 1934 manufacture).

Date:  (Date Unavailable)

Fellow Galoots:

Just got my copy of the 99 Donnely catalogue - I am learning so much it
makes my head spin.

A "what do I have" question -

My sister-in-law has as tool from her dad that I have always been puzzled
by.  It is a 3 foot stick that tapers from about an inch square at the
fat end to about 5/8" square at the other end.  One side is marked in
inches, the opposite side in centimeters.  The two remaining  sides have
odd tables on them with "gal", "qut", and dother headings, and numbers
that I have stared at but have not been able to find relationships among.

On page E1, number 9, Donnely has one.  This one is a tri-fold version
with a piece of ivory along one side.  He calls it a "wantage" rule.  My
dictionary says that wantage is a shortage, but does not throw any more
light on the subject. (no, mine has no ivory)

Anybody?

Ed Minch

>This patent number is stamped on all kidney-shaped lever caps for about the
>first 17 years of such manufacture (after which the patent expired).
>
>That would be 1934 to 1951 or so, which would include Type 16s, Type 17s,
and
>early Type 18s.

Would Peter or someone else care to explain what improvement the Kidney
shaped lever cap was supposed to give over the previous keyhole type caps? I
have both and have never noticed an advantage of one type over another - not
that I have given it a lot of thought.

Alan N. Graham

"Alan N. Graham" wrote:
>
> >This patent number is stamped on all kidney-shaped lever caps for about the
> >first 17 years of such manufacture (after which the patent expired).
> >
> >That would be 1934 to 1951 or so, which would include Type 16s, Type 17s,
> and
> >early Type 18s.
>
> Would Peter or someone else care to explain what improvement the Kidney
> shaped lever cap was supposed to give over the previous keyhole type caps? I
> have both and have never noticed an advantage of one type over another - not
> that I have given it a lot of thought.
>

Alan,

I think that you'll find that the biggest real world improvement that the Kidne
y
shaped hole provided was that it was patentable (patent #1918750.)  Ostensibly
it was to more securely anchor the cutter to the frog so Stanley could write ad
copy that went something like:

"...plus our new, patented, lever cap design does a better job of keeping the
adjustments that you've made ...."

in their battles with Millers Falls, Sargent and whoever else they hadn't
already bought out (Ohio Tools was already gone by this time.)

Then again maybe I'm just getting too cynical in this age of marketing BS.

-Ken

At 1:43 PM -0400 6/10/99, Alan N. Graham asked:
>what improvement the Kidney
>shaped lever cap was supposed to give over the previous keyhole type caps?

        S'posed to keep the lever cap from working up and away from the
intended location, AFAIK.  The real question is:  does it work?
                Tom Holloway

> I think that you'll find that the biggest real world improvement that the
Kidney  shaped hole provided was that it was patentable (patent #1918750.) it
was to more securely anchor the cutter to the frog so Stanley could write ad
copy that went something like:
> "...plus our new, patented, lever cap design does a better job of keeping the
 adjustments that you've made ...."
>
> Then again maybe I'm just getting too cynical in this age of marketing BS.
>
> -Ken

Sorry Ken, not cynical, just a marketing brain running normally...

In a message dated 6/10/99 11:27:28 AM, thh1@c... writes:

<<
S'posed to keep the lever cap from working up and away from the
intended location, AFAIK.  The real question is:  does it work?
>>

Bingo! The right answer.

And it does indeed work.

The "keyhole" lever caps will back out as you retract the iron.

The slight "detour" which the "kidney" lever cap presents to the lever cap
screw prevents this back-out, in my experience.

While I was formerly a devoted follower of Type 18/19 tools, I have since
"adopted" Type 13 through 15 tools as my favorite.

Do I miss the "advantage" offered by the "kidney" feature. No.

The higher overall quality of the early tools more than makes up for whatever
features the later tools possess.

Speaking of type 13s and type 18s...  I had a type 13 #4 and a type 18 #4C
on the bench today and noticed that the sides of the type 18 were much
thicker than the older type 13.  Despite the greater mass of the newer
plane, I much prefer the type 13.  It has taught me what a good smoother
can do.

Dick Durbin                     "Who is out there to provide us with a
Tallahassee, FL                 personal example of virtue and
www.tfn.net/~ddurbin            self-sacrifice for a higher good?"-Calvin

On Thu, 10 Jun 1999 PeterH5322@a... wrote:

>
> In a message dated 6/10/99 11:27:28 AM, thh1@c... writes:

> While I was formerly a devoted follower of Type 18/19 tools, I have since
> "adopted" Type 13 through 15 tools as my favorite.
>
> Do I miss the "advantage" offered by the "kidney" feature. No.
>
> The higher overall quality of the early tools more than makes up for whatever

> features the later tools possess.

>Would Peter or someone else care to explain what improvement the Kidney
>shaped lever cap was supposed to give over the previous keyhole type caps?
I
>have both and have never noticed an advantage of one type over another -
not
>that I have given it a lot of thought.

Yeah - as I understand it, it's supposed to keep the lever cap from sliding
up, thereby keeping the iron/breaker combination where you set it...

Um. Dunno if it really does it. My little #3C (Small, corrugated smoother,
Jeff) has the keyhole, and it seems to keep its setting...

- Bill Taggart

Peter wrote:

>
>The slight "detour" which the "kidney" lever cap presents to the lever cap
>screw prevents this back-out, in my experience.
>
>While I was formerly a devoted follower of Type 18/19 tools, I have since
>"adopted" Type 13 through 15 tools as my favorite.
>
>Do I miss the "advantage" offered by the "kidney" feature.

Well, shoot, I have an quick fix. I jest swap the lever caps around! It's
easy and fun! Plus I get to laugh myself silly thinking of the
consternation on the faces of whatever OldToolers get to clean all my
crap out of the basement after I have left this mortal coil. They'll have
hours of fun trying to sort it all out.

(Getting up to find another beer) Wait'll they see which planes I put the
Millers Falls lever caps on! Hee, hee.
****************************
Tom Price (TomPrice@a...)
Brakes For Rust
Just say I'm having more fun down there in the basement than I probably
should, etc.