On 2 Jan 99, at 17:06, Abe Mathews wrote:

> haven't run across before.  It was a Corsair #5.  It looked to be
> about the same size as a Stanley #5.  It was in good shape, no rust
> or pitting.  It also seemed to have been spared from the "coat
> of black rust-oleum" fate that most of the other tools in that space
> had.  The iron looked good, if really dull.  No chips out of the sole.

My father has a Corsair smoother.  He doesn't use it, and I don't
particularly want it.  It's still in the same box as when he bought
the thing at Big-5 sporting goods.  Price tag is still on the box.  I
also think the box has "Great Neck" printed on it.

> Is this a junk plane, or worth a little bit of money?  I was looking
> for a user bench plane to start with.  I know you all can't give me
> buy/don't buy advice without seeing it, but I'd appreciate any input
> on the usability of this tool.

If you can, pop the lever cap open and examine the frog.  On my dad'd
there's a grand total of 1 (one) screw securing the frog to the
blade.  The lateral adjuster was pretty cheesy too.  I tuned the
plane up a bit when I last out that way, and it seemed to do okay on
the edge of a piece of scrap pine.  I wouldn't want to give it
anything more stressful though.  I'd say if you need a good beater
plane and the price seems decent...

Happy Hunting!

==============================
John Solie - jsolie@i...
==============================

Dear Porch denziens-

I found a few planes at a local flea market today.  Most of them
were Stanley Handymans or Delaps (?).  I did find one that I
haven't run across before.  It was a Corsair #5.  It looked to be
about the same size as a Stanley #5.  It was in good shape, no rust
or pitting.  It also seemed to have been spared from the "coat
of black rust-oleum" fate that most of the other tools in that space
had.  The iron looked good, if really dull.  No chips out of the sole.

Is this a junk plane, or worth a little bit of money?  I was looking
for a user bench plane to start with.  I know you all can't give me
buy/don't buy advice without seeing it, but I'd appreciate any input
on the usability of this tool.

Thanks in advance-
Abe Mathews

Post-christmas drive by- Santa got me sliding down the slope for sure,
brining me some clamps, a Stanley 60 1/2 (flattened now), and enough
cash for a marking gage, a try square, a 1/2" blue-chip chisel, dead-
blow hammer, and a bit of wood (poplar, ash and jabota).  I've been
cutting 1/2"X 1 1/2" mortices in anything that will stand still long
enough to be clamped down for the past few days. :)

Yo, Abe

I haven't seen one for a while, but if I remember correctly, a Corsair plane
would make every bit as good a doorstop as a Stanley Handyman.

In case that's not very helpful, Abe, I think you need to educate yourself
about tools in general.  Maybe you need to find some craftsman locally,
somebody that makes or made a living using hand tools, and ask him to show you
some differences and why the differences are important.

Many people consider the golden age of hand woodworking tools to be the
hundred years prior to 1960.  By 1960, changes in building methods had
progressed far enough that the market for good hand tools was shrinking
drasticly.  As long as there were enough people using hand tools to make a
living, there was a market for them.  It was not simply a matter of their
being cheap foreign competition.  The reason the cheap foreign goods were able
to replace good tools was that there weren't enough people around that knew
investment in a good tool was much more economical in the long run.  People
bought tools that looked pretty much like they thought they ought to look
like, without being able to discriminate beyond that.

Powered tools are being used now by majority of people who make their living
with them.  That is where the market is, so that's where are the real
development is.  There have never been better portable power tools available.
Power tools are often used even where hand tools would be better, because of a
lack of knowledge and skill about the use of the hand tools.  A young worker
can be more productive faster in the building trades using power tools than in
learning the skills of hand tools--or else there isn't anyone else using them
to learn from.

Hand tools fall farther out of favor because so many of those manufactured and
purchased now aren't very good.  If you devote some time and energy to using
the tools and understanding them, you will probably end up with a good vintage
Stanley or other fine old tool, or with an expensive modern version thereof.
And the Corsairs and Handymans will be off in a box somewhere, or sold or
given to someone who still doesn't know ...

In my personal opinion, you need some other way to gain knowledge about tools
that asking the porch about particular tool models, even tho there may be many
willing to share their opinions.

Best of luck in '99, Abe

Roger Harrer
hoping my oversimplifications don't irritate folks too much

Roger wrote:

>In case that's not very helpful, Abe, I think you need to educate yourself
>about tools in general.  Maybe you need to find some craftsman locally,
>somebody that makes or made a living using hand tools, and ask him to show
>you
>some differences and why the differences are important.
(snip)
>In my personal opinion, you need some other way to gain knowledge about tools
>that asking the porch about particular tool models, even tho there may be
>many
>willing to share their opinions.

This would be a good thing to do if one could actually find someone local
who knows hand tools. Another Galoot or a visit to a regional MWTCA meet
(see the MWTCA web site or the Electronic Neanderthal site for events)
are also possibilities. Meanwhile the Porch exists as a place to get
answers to such questions. Meanwhile, there are those of us who are quite
happy to give advice. :-)

As John Solie also mentions in another reply, Corsairs were marketed by
Great Neck and were generally in the Stanley Handyman class of plane.
There are many other makes which would be better choices. Dunlaps were
also 'handyman' planes.

Planes to look out for are Sargents, Stanley Baileys, Millers Falls
planes with the jointed lever cap, and older Records. Mainly you want a
plane with a cast frog (not stamped sheet metal) and well machined
surfaces. Both the upper and bottom surfaces of the frog  as well as the
frog receiver on the bed of the plane should be machined. The frog should
be held on with two screws. The better planes had frog adjusting screws.
Patrick's Blood and Gore at

http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0.htm

is the best source for descriptions of the various types of Stanley
planes. Patrick's observations are oriented towards the user. Randy
Roeder's web site has good illustrations of Millers Falls planes at:

http://www.public.coe.edu/~rroeder/mf.htm

Once you get a couple of decent planes, take them apart, clean them and
fond.. er, whatever, you will be able to spot a quality plane across
several flea market tables. It's worth it to wait for a Stanley, Sargent,
M-F, etc. since they often won't cost much more than the also-rans.
****************************
Tom Price (TomPrice@a...)
Will Work For Tools
A Field Guide To Millers Falls Type 1 Planes is featured at The Galoot's
Progress:
http://members.aol.com/tomprice/galootp/galtprog.html

TomPrice@a... wrote:
>
> Roger wrote:
>
> >In case that's not very helpful, Abe, I think you need to educate yourself
> >about tools in general.  Maybe you need to find some craftsman locally,
> >somebody that makes or made a living using hand tools, and ask him to show
> >you
> >some differences and why the differences are important.
> (snip)
> >In my personal opinion, you need some other way to gain knowledge about tool
s
> >that asking the porch about particular tool models, even tho there may be
> >many
> >willing to share their opinions.
>
> This would be a good thing to do if one could actually find someone local
> who knows hand tools. Another Galoot or a visit to a regional MWTCA meet
> (see the MWTCA web site or the Electronic Neanderthal site for events)
> are also possibilities. Meanwhile the Porch exists as a place to get
> answers to such questions. Meanwhile, there are those of us who are quite
> happy to give advice. :-)
>
>

Thank Goodness!!  A kind voice of reason. For a moment there, I thought
roger rewrote the charter for the oldtools list. Seems to me the porch
is a great place to ask questions and learn about tools.

Hey, I was tempted by a Corsair once, It had a cool box with giraffes on
it. I guess they are the mascott for the great neck tool company.

John.

> John wrote
> Hey, I was tempted by a Corsair once, It had a cool box with giraffes  > on
it. I guess they are the mascott for the great neck tool company.
> John.
-
Gotta read the last sentence slowly or it goes right by !!!!!!!

I would use care in knocking any of our old products. If somebody
doesn't save at least one, a bit of history is gone forever.

I note we have some who like to knock Craftsman. They reveal their
inexperienced youth. In the early days if you lived on a farm in the
midwest you simply had no source of tools other than Sears or
Montgomery Wards and regardless of the quality you got them to work. -

Furthermore their pricing policy forced many manufactures into
producing quality at a affordable price.  Had they not done that
tools for the average person would still be unaffordable.

      Tom Thornton,
  Collector of old tools, specializing in hand cranked grindstones
  Cincinnati #3, F&AM, Morristown, New Jersey, USA