Greetings to all!!  Yes, I'm new to this list and yes I did do some
lurking before joining.  I come not from the age of Norm but from the
age of James (Krenov that is).  Started making most of my own tools
nearly 20 years ago.  I'm now at the point where my In-Laws wonder why I
even bother turning on the lights when working.

Several years ago I inherited a number of tools from two working
carpenters in the San Francisco area.  All tools are from the late
1800's & turn of the century.  Thanks to the work of many of you I have
been able to type & date most of them.  Cleaning and using them has been
a joy.  I am just now getting to making use of some of the smaller
items. At present I am trying to figure out exactly how the #95 butt
gauge was used.  Mine is a "Type 2" so it couldn't be used as a sm.
square.  If anyone can enlighten me, please do.

I'm also looking for type study information on the Stanley #46.  I've
got two, one of which I believe dates to 1880-1884.  It seems like all
the interest is in the #45 with little if any attention paid to the #46.

Thanks.
Bruce Thacker

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At 2/10/1998 02:49 PM, Brendler, Ralph wrote:
>Aaargh!  I just read this over, and realized that I had
>the direction of one point BACKWARDS on my diagram!

Whew!! Just in time. I just was just going for my file .....

Seriously, tho ... very nice lecture, Ralph. Appreciated by one who has
several of these puppies and never understood the subtle intricacies. I
assume this will be on the next exam?

Thanks,
David

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Bruce Thacker writes:

>At present I am trying to figure out exactly how the #95 butt
>gauge was used.  Mine is a "Type 2" so it couldn't be used as a sm.
>square.  If anyone can enlighten me, please do.

Ah, yes-- a marking gage question! My day is now 
complete... ;-)

I'm a big fan of the #95--  It's an incredibly handy tool
for hinge mortises, and it makes a swell marking gage as 
well.  Add to this the fact that they're dirt cheap, and
you've got a tool that should be in every galoot's set.

Setting it up is quite straightforward, but not intuitively
obvious.  Once you understand the basics, however, it's
clear.

Consider the following to be butt gages 101: ;-)

[quoting from my Gage Page]

  The butt gage is a specialization of the marking gage 
  which is designed for marking mortises for butt hinges. 
  This is a surprisingly complicated job with little room 
  for error-- if the hinges are not properly placed, the 
  door may not work properly (or at all).

  There are two common situations encountered in butt 
  mortising-- one in which the door is being fitted into a
  rabbeted jamb, and one in which the strike for the door is
  nailed on. In each situation, the marking job is slightly 
  different. 

  In the case of a rabbeted jamb, the most important thing 
  is to mark the hinges such that a small gap (usually 
  1/16") exists between the face of the door and the back 
  of the rabbet. If this gap is not present, the door will
  bind. Butt gages designed for this situation will mark a 
  specific distance from the corner of the rabbet, and a 
  corresponding distance (minus the desired gap) from the 
  face of the door.

[snip]

  In the case of a nailed-on strike, the job is much 
  simpler. Since the strike is added later, there is no 
  need to account for the gap between the strike and the 
  door. In this situation the hinge depth is marked 
  referencing the outside of the jamb and the corresponding 
  side of the door, so the door will be flush with the 
  jamb.

[end quoting]

The #95 is designed for the first scenario-- marking for
a rabbeted jamb.  The #95 has two arms: one with a single
point, and one with two points.  The single point arm is
used to mark hinge thickness (nothing fancy there).  It's
the two-point arm that does the interesting work.

If you look carefully at the two-point arm, you will notice 
that it has this general layout:

  /|___________________
  |___________________ |
                      \|

The important thing to notice is that one point is bevelled
on the inside and one on the outside.  Now if we look at 
the arm as used in the #95, we have:

 -A--
  __/|______________
 |                  |____
 |                  |___ |
 |                  |   |/
 |                  |-B-
 |__________________|

Since the arm is exactly the same length as the body of
the gage, you can see that the distance A is greater
than the distance B by the thickness of the scribe.
This is the clearance distance for the door.

To use the #95, you would mark distance A referencing the
side of the rabbet in the door jamb, distance B referencing 
the outside face of the door, and (as Jeff would say) "Bob's
your uncle!"

Hope this clarifies things.  I'd be happy to answer any 
further questions.  I'd also be willing to write up Butt
Gages 102 and maybe even Butt Gages 200 if there's any
interest.  I have to draw the line at Butt Gages 400
(setting up a #92 for mortising), though...  ;-)

ralph
============================================================
Ralph Brendler (ENB/FOYBIPO/OTLM)   Chicago, IL
Woodworker and Collector of Antique Marking Gages
http://www.mcs.net/~brendler/oldtools

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Aaargh!  I just read this over, and realized that I had
the direction of one point BACKWARDS on my diagram!

Here is the proper ASCII art (note that the point at
A has been turned to face the proper direction):

> -A--
>  ___|\______________
> |                   |____
> |                   |___ |
> |                   |   |/
> |                   |-B-
> |___________________|

My apologies for the confusion.

ralph
============================================================
Ralph Brendler (ENB/FOYBIPO/OTLM)   Chicago, IL
Woodworker and Collector of Antique Marking Gages
http://www.mcs.net/~brendler/oldtools

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Ralph wrote: 

<< Aaargh!  I just read this over, and realized that I had
 the direction of one point BACKWARDS on my diagram!
 
 Here is the proper ASCII art (note that the point at
 A has been turned to face the proper direction):
 
 > -A--
 >  ___|\______________
 > |                   |____
 > |                   |___ |
 > |                   |   |/
 > |                   |-B-
 > |___________________|
 
 My apologies for the confusion.
 
 ralph>>

Ralph!  I'm so relieved!  I thought this was a Rorschach test, and when I
tested myself on the first sketch, the analysis of my interpretation indicated
"multiple personality syndrome, some personalities are psychopathic, some
sociopathic, and even worse,  some worship Norm Abrams as Messiah." 

I retested myself on the revised sketch and I'm pleased to report, I am
"mildly neurotic, manic-depressive, obsessive-compulsive, anal retentive and
addicted to old hand tools."  I can live with that!  :-)

I second Dave Hunkins salute.  Thanks for the great seminar on the 95!

Don

 

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Ralph, here's a clip ascii from the past, when
we were chatting about rabbet v. marking gages.

Salaman describes a butt gauge will mark OUT from a stop, 
where as other gauges mark IN from an edge.  And a couple 
of illustrations incl.a #95.

Later he defines (and shows) a rabbet (or rebate) gauge 
as "A brass stock fitted at an angle to the end of a 
handle and carrying a _CUTTING_ spur and adjustable fence.  
Made _FOR_ rebating small straight or curved work,
e.g. picture frames and the like."



..regarding the Stanley butt gauge line up, #92, #93, and 
the similar #94, #95 & #95-1/2... they all really have "3" 
scribes, each with a distinct purpose according to the 
Stanley catalog info.
          a        d       Marking points....
       ___|_______||        a. rabbet inn from stop, on jamb
      |            |===|b   b. in from edge, on door
      |    #95     |        c. set to mark thickness of butt
c |===|            |
      |____________|

Clearly (a) and (b) are reside on the same rod & set together,
One marks the hinge width on the jamb, the other on the door.
Note that (d) appears on the #94 & #95s to also use the gauge 
as a square for the edge of the hinge layout.

etc.etc.etc.

Walter,
still thinks it's cool.

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