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257049 Gary Katsanis <gtgrouch@r...> 2015‑11‑27 Rifle Stock Project
Short Version: I have a good use for some walnut veneer given to me by 
Brent Kinsey, a Galoot both skilled and generous. (Others offered too, 
thank you!)

Long Version: I am interested in the history of military firearms.  (If 
you're not, skip down to 'My Project' below.) A fascinating period was 
the mid-1800s. Before about 1840, state of the art was almost 
universally the smooth-bore musket, usually a flintlock.  By 1870, 
flintlocks, along with the next generation percussion cap rifles, were a 
thing of the past, and the standard was the breech-loading cartridge 
rifle.  By 1890, breech-loading rifles had undergone several 
generations, with the standard becoming the bolt-action rifle. The 
classic example of this is the superb Mauser design, which was widely 
used through World War II and remains the most common bolt-action 
sporting rifle today, almost 140 years later. (Please note I'm a 
dabbler, not a true historian, and dates may be off a year or two.)

In addition to the change from muzzle-loading to breech-loading and the 
change from flint to percussion cap to cartridge, there was another 
sometimes overlooked change: the evolution to a rifle with a central 
steel receiver.  Before this point, the wooden stock had a structural 
role in holding and supporting the mechanism of the rifle.  After this 
point, the mechanism was enclosed in a metal receiver, and all other 
parts connected to it. For a good example of a metal receiver, look on 
the internet for 'Martini Henry Rifle' (about 1868) and note that the 
rifle has wood from the butt to a metal section in the middle - the 
receiver - and that the rest of the wood simply supports the barrel.

As the major world powers considered the change from muzzle-loading to 
breech-loading, they were faced with a major problem.  Breech loaders 
were clearly superior: rather than pouring loose powder and ramming a 
bullet into the muzzle, then handling a small, hard to hold metal 
primer, the soldier just had to load a single, easy to hold cartridge.  
Rate of fire went from 3 shots per minute by the best troops to 8-10 
shots per minute. However, most nations had tens or hundreds of 
thousands of outmoded muzzle loading arms (USA had over a million): a 
major national investment.  This lead to the conversion rifles, which 
were muzzle-loaders that was altered into a breech-loading 
configuration.  For example, Britain used the Snider Conversion of the 
1853 Pattern Enfield, Sweden used a rolling block conversion, and the 
USA used the Allin Conversion of their Springfield muzzle loaders.

My Project

Until recently, I had no rifles in my, er . . collection that were made 
before the development of the receiver.  That changed a few months ago 
when I bought a pile of muzzle loader parts. I rummaged through them and 
came to an exciting realization! I had *all* of the metal parts of a 
second Allin Conversion breech loading rifle! Unfortunately, I had none 
of the wood. In the past, my only project involving firearms had been a 
replacement stock for a shotgun, which was under 16" long.  Now, I was 
faced with something that was likely to be three times as long, and that 
had to be shaped as a structural part of the rifle.

A look at online information left me with the tidbit that a properly fit 
musket stock would be within 1/32" tolerance (under a millimeter). A 
quick glance into an example of the lock cavity of a borrowed exemplar 
stock convinced me that if I started this from scratch as my first 
project, it would probably be beyond me.  I've enclosed a picture of an 
example lock from an Enfield, to give an idea of the mechanism that fits 
the cavity.

  http://galootcentral.com/components/cpgalbums/userpics/10072/Allin_07.jpg
  http://galootcentral.com/components/cpgalbums/userpics/10072/Enfield_01.jpg

So I went looking for a replacement stock.  It turns out that the Allin 
is rare enough that replacements are not available. But there are 
replacements for the original muzzle loader. Armed (pun intended) with a 
replacement stock from Dunlap Woodworking, I eagerly started fitting 
parts. To begin with, absolutely nothing fit.  Dunlap made all the 
channels and cavities undersize to allow for proper fitting.  I was able 
to fit the lock in first, drilled the holes for the supporting bolts 
(called 'nails' in the original terminology) then fit the trigger and 
guard.

  http://galootcentral.com/components/cpgalbums/userpics/10072/Allin_04.jpg

After that, I started on the barrel.  The barrel must be properly 
supported by its abutments in the back near the tang, must relate 
properly to the lock and trigger, must be supported by the length of the 
stock, and line up properly with the forend cap.  To fit this, you use a 
layout paste: brush the paste on to the barrel, place it onto the stock, 
look for paste transfer to the wood, and remove the wood at that 
location.  Repeat, repeat, repeat ad nauseum. While people who do this 
frequently have a special barrel-fitting tool, I made do with a round 
rasp, chainsaw file, flat and half-round files, and finally a pair of 
tools I got from Tony Seo in the past: 1/4" socket chisel and gouge. 
Eventually, I graduated to using dental tools and sandpaper (forgive 
me!) . Recently, I got some small chisels from Mark Pfeifer, which would 
have been very useful, but by the time I got them, my project had passed 
the chisel stage.

After some hours of work over several weeks, I had actually made a fair 
amount of progress.  I finally got the barrel to fit in the channel, 
then started shaping the stock to fit the barrel bands.  This is when I 
found that I was in trouble.  I had shaved the side walls of the channel 
a little lower than desirable for the large band and the middle band. 
However, the major problem is that I didn't make the channel at the 
smallest band exactly colinear with the other two. I believe that when I 
checked the fit at the small band, I let the other end of the barrel 
raise up in the channel. I also removed a bit more wood than I should 
have. At the current stage (next to an example rifle with an early 
replacement stock), you can see the project on the right.

  http://galootcentral.com/components/cpgalbums/userpics/10072/Allin_01.jpg

When you look at the middle band, you can see I removed a bit too much 
wood. This is mostly cosmetic, since the barrel is bedded firmly in its 
channel and the band is snug.

http://galootcentral.com/components/cpgalbums/userpics/10072/Allin_03.jpg

And when you look at the smallest barrel band, You can see I removed too 
much wood at several places.  The worst is the wood removal between the 
barrel and the stock, visible at the bottom.  But I also took too much 
off around the band itself.

http://galootcentral.com/components/cpgalbums/userpics/10072/Allin_02.jpg

I could hide part of the gap when I put on the forend cap, but if the 
pressure of the barrel bands bends the barrel at all, the rifle will 
lose its accuracy.  I hope to get this rifle shooting within a two inch 
circle at 100 yards.  That might be ambitious, but if I am to have any 
chance at all, I need to have a careful fit throughout.

So, once again having learned that fixes are much easier when I haven't 
taken too much off, I will build up the low places with a layer of 
veneer, then shave it down to fit. It's been an interesting project.  
Next, I hope to do a flintlock from scratch using modern parts and some 
walnut I got from Bill Webber.

Live and learn, Gary Katsanis
Albion New York, USA
(hoping our USA Galoots all had a great Thanksgiving!)
257050 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2015‑11‑27 Re: Rifle Stock Project
Gary

I am not a shooter, but I have looked at this sort of weapon a thousand times -
even made a point to visit the arms collection at the Philly Art Museum and the
Met several times each - but I never made the distinction about the separate
receiver.  thanks for the explanation.  A question - wood is wood.  If the stock
is fit to 1/32”, what happens if the wood decides to move around a little?  And
how do you install those barrel bands?  Looks like they wouldn’t fit over the
larger section of stock to get to their recess

Ed Minch
257051 "Ray Sheley Jr." <rsheley@r...> 2015‑11‑27 Re: Rifle Stock Project
That looks like an interesting project Gary.
Keep us updated. 

-----Original Message----- 
From: Gary Katsanis 
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2015 12:40 AM 
To: oldtools 
Subject: [OldTools] Rifle Stock Project 

Short Version: I have a good use for some walnut veneer given to me by 
Brent Kinsey, a Galoot both skilled and generous. (Others offered too, 
thank you!)
257052 Michael Blair <branson2@s...> 2015‑11‑27 Re: Rifle Stock Project
>  but I never made the distinction about the separate receiver.  thanks 
> for the
> explanation.

I hadn't made that connection either. It's not quite a perfect 
connection since
any number of percussion arms have a separate receiver and two piece 
stocks.  Sharps
long arms are a prime example.  But point taken.  The earliest receivers 
required
a two piece stock.

> A question - wood is wood.  If the stock is fit to
> 1/32”, what happens if the wood decides to move around a little?

Essentially, you learn to live with it until other materials for stocks 
come around.
There's glass bedding but...

> And how do you install those barrel bands?  Looks like they wouldn’t 
> fit
> over the larger section of stock to get to their recess

The stock is stepped so that the largest section is at the rear, and all 
subsequent
bands involve subsequent steps.  The band slips down the stock to it's 
proper place
and is held in that place by a detent and is further tightened by a bolt 
that runs
through the bottom, squeezing the band together.

Mike soon to be in Woodland
257053 Brent Kinsey <brentpmed@c...> 2015‑11‑27 Re: Rifle Stock Project
Major snip: Gary is building a rifle converted from musket to breach loaded.

Gary, when they did the conversion, did they cut the breach of the original
barrel off? Was there originally a closed breach with a small hole for the flame
from fire pan or percussion cap to ignite the powder?  Just trying to get a
sense of how much work went into the original conversions.

Nice work with chisel, rasp and file so far. That is a lot of hand shaping!

Can't wait for the next installment.

Brent A Kinsey
Brentpmed@c...
257054 Gary Katsanis <gtgrouch@r...> 2015‑11‑27 Re: Rifle Stock Project
There originally was a small hole for ignition from the percussion cap.

The Allin Conversion took a closed breech and milled a flat three-inch 
section out of it.

They soldered and screwed a hinge reinforcement in the front, installed 
a breech block with a cam to hold it closed in the back and a firing pin 
that angled from the hammer to the center of the chamber, and they 
reamed out the barrel and installed a sleeve, reducing the caliber from 
.577 to .50 .  The chamber of a cartridge rifle is always larger than 
the barrel, and the sleeve was used to engineering this.

  http://galootcentral.com/components/cpgalbums/userpics/10072/Allin_06.jpg

Hope this helps!  Gary Katsanis
Albion New York, USA
257055 Gary Katsanis <gtgrouch@r...> 2015‑11‑27 Re: Rifle Stock Project - Barrel Bands and Moisture
Michael has the right of it with regard to the barrel bands. The detent 
is a metal spring, formed into a right angle, with a notch in the end.

  http://galootcentral.com/components/cpgalbums/userpics/10072/Allin_08.jpg

On my exemplar, the barrel bands have screws; some did, some didn't.  
Also, wood on the exemplar is worn to the right, showing all of the 
ramrod. Originally, the taper to a smaller size would have been much 
more gradual.

Accuracy always changed with moisture variations. Soldiers oiled the 
heck out of their stock to keep it stable.  Please note in my picture 
how my new stock looks like walnut, but the exemplar is almost black. It 
too is walnut.  This was very common, and is due to oiling.  In most 
modern rifles that have wood stocks and accuracy is a major concern, 
they alter the rifle so that the barrel is 'free floating.'  You can 
wrap a piece of paper around the barrel and it will slide almost all the 
way to the receiver: the barrel is close to the stock but not touching.  
This relegated the stock from structural support to a mere handhold.

Gary Katsanis
Albion New York, USA
257058 scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> 2015‑11‑28 Re: Rifle Stock Project - Barrel Bands and Moisture
I don't see any shame in a well executed shim.
    Having lived the life I have lived, I see the great shims as 
--most-- important little bits of matter.
   Down in the trenches, everything needs to be shimmed. Every big pump 
and every linear power transmission scheme really. Just about everything 
industrial mechanical actually.
     Shims freakin rock!!

   And pulling off the great shim?  The perfect stitch in time that 
saves the day?
   That's oldschool
      yours Scott


-- 
*******************************
    Scott Grandstaff
    Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
    scottg@s...
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html



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Recent Bios FAQ