Good morning

I've never done any serious drying of green wood before (and
this particular example may be slightly tricky), so I have a question.

In short:
What wood be a useful way to dry out a freshly cut sapling?

In more detail:

I have a handful of walking sticks that I've made from some nice
branches or saplings that I've collected over the years.  Typically
I just do any minimal trimming that might be required, sand them up,
do some minimal apply a finish, attach a wrist-strap and a tip and
I'm good to go.

I have several saplings here on my land and I've been thinking
that I'd like to find some nice ones of an appropriate size, cut them
down to length (while doing some much-needed thinning of my --tiny-- woodlot)
and go from there.

So, here are some of my questions:

-- If I were going to do this, what might be the best time of
year to cut the saplings?

-- Again, I'm just assuming I want to dryi them out first before
working on them (but I do, don't I)?

-- How long should they be allowed to dry before I started the
final work?

-- How should they be "stacked" while drying?  Just lean them
against the wall?  Let them dangle from the ceiling?  Or...?

-- I assume I'd want to remove the bark immediately (correct)?

-- Just to mention, there's a lot of maple hereabout, so I assume
most of these would be maple.  But other than that I can't tack
down the species.  Assuming I stick to hardwoods, are there
any I should try to avoid?

-- Once I cut the fresh, green wood down to length, should
I do anything like paint the ends while they dry?

-- Anything else I've not thought of?

Thanks,
Nichael

On Jul 6, 2015, at 10:45 AM, Nichael Cramer  wrote:

> Good morning
> 
> I've never done any serious drying of green wood before (and
> this particular example may be slightly tricky), so I have a question.
> 
> In short:
> What wood be a useful way to dry out a freshly cut sapling?

I would cut them over long and work them down to a rough diameter. Smaller will
dry better, but I want enough length to cut off end splits. I would also paint
them to try to control the end splits. I have successfully done it this way for
all the Maple walking sticks I have made -- all one of them.

Bill

William Ghio wrote:
>Nichael Cramer  wrote:
> > What wood be a useful way to dry out a freshly cut sapling?
>I would cut them over long and work them down to a rough diameter. 
>Smaller will dry better, but I want enough length to cut off end 
>splits. I would also paint them to try to control the end splits. I 
>have successfully done it this way for all the Maple walking sticks 
>I have made -- all one of them.

Thanks Bill.

However, I should be clear:  I'm not planning to do any turning.

That is, I might knock off any unfortunate branches, etc;
but I'm planning that these will be mostly "rustic" sticks.
The diameter of the stick will be determined by how far
"up" the sapling I cut.

(Thanks for the reminder to leave them overlong to deal with unwanted 
end-splits.)

N

Re drying wood
 I'm no expert, but I will share my experiences...I would cut in the early
winter, when the sap has stopped running- less moisture to dry out.
Last winter, I just used some stale dated wood glue to coat the ends and
that worked pretty well on the honey locust I dried, but I have read that
any latex paint will also work.  I also rived the wood before stacking for
drying, cutting out the pith (center) which always cracks otherwise.  I
also dried a nice walnut log over 4 years, again coating the ends, cutting
out the center, stickering it in my garage for one year, then in my dry
basement for 3 more years (12/4 boards).  I had minimal checking over the
last few inches.
Claudio

Nichael Cramer wrote:

"What wood be a useful way to dry out a freshly cut sapling?"

I've never made many sticks at a time, and fewer still with natural shafts, but
I've made a few in most decades since the sixties. My favorites right now with
natural have shafts sent to me by Scott Grandstaff after I injured my knee, so I
don't know that much about cutting and seasoning them. I do have some
suggestions, though.
Making country sticks is a big hobby in England, and there are a number of books
about it. I have two separate ones co-written by Andrew Jones and Clive George,
and one by Leo Gowan. These are an excellent resource, though rather heavy on
information on fancy-carved handles.

Gowan says that the country wisdom is that the best time to cut a stick is when
you see it, before someone else gets it. That aside, both say the winter when
the sap is down is best. I'd say cut lots of potential stick blanks, figure that
if you are lucky one in ten might turn into a good stick. The books talk about
seasoning them in bundles. Select from your blanks, don't get too attached to a
particular stick that catches your fancy when living.

If you are planning to work the wood down, don't use a sapling; use straight-
grained knot-free wood from a plank or log.  If you start from a sapling, figure
on keeping the natural surface as much as possible. Leave the bark on when you
dry it: it adds character, and if it isn't attractive you can remove it later,
and Gowan says that leaving it on helps to prevent splits. Cut your blanks a
foot or so too long at each end if you can, largely to give yourseld choice in
which part of the blank to use. You'll be better able to decide just which run
of the stick to use in the quiet contemplation of your shop than among the
distractions of the field. Some saplings are said to have large root balls that
make good handles, so digging that up may be an option. Also consider taking
thin branch wood with a chunk of the thicker branch it comes from, for different
styles of handle. Sealing the ends certainly won't do any harm, especially if
you are trying to use a small branch with part of the big branch attached. Don't
worry if the stick is gently curved, even on a relatively short radius, it is
amazing how much it can be straightened out once yo start working on it. On the
other hand, sudden kinks, sharp bends, or doglegs are likely to prove
intractable, though they might prove attractive if you want to get **really**
rustic. When you trim off side twigs for seasoning leave a half inch or so in
place, so that cracks that start in the twigs are less likely to run down into
the shaft.

The books suggest that the usual inch per year of thickness is the right minimum
drying time for sticks. Summer-cut wood somewhat longer; and I assume standing
dead shafts will be ready sooner, maybe even right away. In practice, if you get
into stick making you are likely to have most blanks around for a lot more than
a year before you get around to them. Dry in an open shed or barn, not indoors.
Jones and George says "Stickmakers are divided as to whether bundles should be
laid on the ground or stacked vertically; best of all, I believe, is to suspend
the bundles from the roof beams. This lets the air get to them, avoids any risk
of the sticks bending and prevents any ground damp from affecting them."

Dry weight is a pretty good pointer to wood strength. If you are in doubt about
a dry blank put your weight on it; what do you have to lose?  If it bends too
much or breaks, it wasn't suitable for a stick anyway.
If there is one difference between my for-style stickmaking when I was young and
my more recent stickmaking, aided by books, it is that I now know how to
straighten shafts (nothing arcane, just heat and moisture and allowing to cool
in straight restraint) and I'm aware of just how much straightening can be done.
It really increases the number of acceptable blanks available.
Tom ConroyBerkeley

Thanks to Tom Conroy for writing out most of it.
    nice

  Yeah the answer is wholesale. Its been that way for thousands of years.
Cut a lot of sticks.  Don't put your hopes in one stick. One stick alone 
almost never dries well.   50 sticks? Well misery loves company.
  Wood in a stack or a pile can control humidity changes/shocks much 
better. It kind of does it automatically. Its why people always stacked 
wood.

   I keep an old steel can filled with scrap wax. When I cut a bunch of 
sticks I put the can on a campstove outside and melt the wax. Dip the 
new cut stick ends for a few seconds each.
   Take them to the woodshed (or wherever its covered and out of the 
weather but not really indoors dry) and stack them or stand them in the 
corner either one.
     Make it easy to add new ones to the back or bottom or left to right.
  You want them to slowly work their way to the front.  Like canned 
goods on the shelf.
   If you do some every year, you always have some dry ones when you 
need a stick.

     I like to get several different species because you need different 
properties or looks in sticks. Pack a saw. I usually just keep one in my 
truck. Bowsaw or pruning saw, whatever.
    Time of year would be good to control. But getting sticks when and 
where you can is more important. Best time to get sticks is when they 
are available.

  Some of them are just hard to dry well. Just the way it is.
  But get lots and you'll get some winners anyway.
  Get lots of kinds. Remember just because its "supposed" to be this or 
that kind of wood?  Wood does not always follow -book- hardness or 
toughness.
   It has designs of its own.  I have seen douglas fir that you could 
not break a
1/2" stick over your knee.

   So........
    One time I sent Jim Thompson dogwood. He was short on chisel handle 
wood.
  It had been drying for years and was some of my most primo stash. He 
got it and says,
   "yeah, what is this stuff? Not particularly impressive looking, I 
just don't know."
    .............................. three days later .....................
    "Holy Crap what is this stuff? I never turned anything so creamy 
beautiful perfect in my whole life. I could eat this stuff from a 
waffled cone!@ whoa "
           heeheheheh

      yours Scott





-- 
*******************************
    Scott Grandstaff
    Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
    scottg@s...
    http://www.snowcrest.n
et/kitty/sgrandstaff/
    http://www.snowcr
est.net/kitty/hpages/index.html

>     I like to get several different species because you need different
> properties or looks in sticks. Pack a saw. I usually just keep one in my
> truck. Bowsaw or pruning saw, whatever.
>

Likewise.  Well, my trunk ("boot", Jeff).  Also some pruning shears
(secateurs, Jeff) for the smaller branches.


--Travis (Brisbane, AU -- originally from Seattle, but now I speak 'Strine)

When I was living in Michigan some locals cut cedar poles for fencing.  That was
all done in the winter on ice and frozen ground so they wouldn't lose their
equipment in the swamp.

Phil

Sent from my HTC

----- Reply message -----
From: "Michael Blair" 
To: 
Subject: [OldTools] Wood drying question
Date: Tue, Jul 7, 2015 5:29 PM

Shades of John Goff's Mill!  Wait 'til there's ice and snow on the
ground so you can skid them out!

Mike in Sacto

Re WHY COAT ENDS WHEN DRYING LUMBER?

I'm no expert but the reason is pretty simple- you are trying to slow down
the differential drying of the outer wood from the inner.  Strain that
develops quickly results in the lumber cracking to relieve it.
  Slowing down the process allows the strains to work down slowly as the
drying evens out so that the layers hold together.   Most of the faults
occur around the very center of the tree (ie the pith) which is dryer.
Most of the strain is located around there.  That's why you try to cut that
part out of your lumber before drying it fully.  The wettest wood is
adjacent to the bark.  Most of the shrinkage occurs tangential to the
growth rings, then radially from the center with the outer 》》inner for both
kinds (which is why you see cupping of boards that are flatsawn).  There is
almost no change in length. Think of tree as a large bundle of straws, with
the outer ring of straws being larger than the inner rings, because the
outer ones contain more water.  They will eventually become almost the same
size as the moisture is released.
Sometimes there will be hidden faults (shakes) that you may not easily see
in the dry wood- often these are due to heavy winds while the tree is still
up (aka wind shakes), but more commonly it's from not taking the tree down
properly. These typically occur along the length of the growth rings.
Claudio in Waterloo

Claudio,

While it is true that there is more radial than tangential shrinkage, 
the solution to that is to
split the wood.

YMMV, Gary Katsanis
Albion NY, USA

On 09-Jul-15 10:29 AM, Claudio DeLorenzi wrote:
> Re WHY COAT ENDS WHEN DRYING LUMBER?
>
> I'm no expert but the reason is pretty simple- you are trying to slow down
> the differential drying of the outer wood from the inner.
--snip, snip--

Nichael

Think of a piece of red oak about an inch square and a foot long.  Put the lower
end in a glass of water and blow into the upper end and your air bubbles come
out the bottom.  Note they don’t come out the sides.  There are natural pathways
along the grain for the wood to dry through, but the danger is that the wood
closest to the cut will dry so rapidly that it shrinks before the rest and
checks.  So covering the ends (I use canning wax melted with a bernz-0-matic)
forces the wood to dry more through the sides and less through the ends and
therefore more evenly.

With guitar wood, the object is to get the green log split into 1/8th's or
1/16th’s immediately, let it sit for a couple of weeks, then split out (or saw
with the established grain) into usable thicknesses - 3/16” or so.  At this
thickness with stickering, a fan does most of the drying work in less than a
week, then they are ready to build within a couple of months.  This works for
drying because there is soooo much surface area relative to the thin edges that
the wood is drying like mad.  A guitar hanging on the wall can acclimate to a
change in relative humidity in hours (and there is a finish on just one side,
contrary to many established rules)

Check this out - the last picture was added yesterday.  This is one of the few
guys that still cuts Red Spruce for guitar tops, and the one in the last photo
is an $800 top.  24” long X .2” thick X 8” wide = one fourth of a board foot of
highly process wood.  Enjoy:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ruby1638/19366650659/in/album-72157653339
759523/">https://www.flickr.com/photos/ruby1638/19366650659/in/album-72157653339
759523/


Ed Minch




On Jul 9, 2015, at 9:28 AM, Nichael Cramer  wrote:

> 2] At the risk of making it even clearer how little I know about this process:
> 
> What is the purpose of sealing the ends when drying the wood (e.g. with paint,
> or as was suggested earlier with out-of-date wood glue)
> 
> To my non-knowledgeable mind, it would seem this would slow down (or inhibit)
> the drying.  And, so, defeat the purpose.
> 
> What am I missing here?
> 
> Thanks as always,
> Nichael