OldTools Archive

Recent Bios FAQ

254691 Joe Jerkins <jerkinsj@s...> 2015‑05‑14 Wood advice/pointer
Dear galoots,
My 16 year old son asked me to build him a desk.  Woo hoo.  An excuse for some
shop time.  We've settled on the design, but I'm having a tough time finding a
suitable piece of wood.  Your recommendations of places to contact would be most
appreciated.
I need a curly maple natural edge slab about 8 feet long.  One side of the desk
will be the slab cut and joined with a miter joint.  The other end will be two
black anodized square (aluminum ?) tube legs. He wants the wood black, but still
showing the grain (I plan to use black aniline dye).
So, recommendations on sources of maple slabs.  Also, any suggestions for final
finish (oil and varnish, oil and shellac, no oil?...) and source of tube legs
would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance!  He does want me to finish the project while he's still in
high school.
Kind regards from chilly (and hopefully rainy soon) San Francisco,Joe
Example of style here https://www.urbanhardwoods.com/furniture_listing?
id=2072&product=Maple_Table&location=Santa_Monica">https://www.urbanhardwoods.co
m/furniture_listing?id=2072&product=Maple_Table&location=Santa_Monica
254692 scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> 2015‑05‑14 Re: Wood advice/pointer
Joe
While it is sometimes possible to access wood that you picked out in 
your mind, in advance, its always 1000 times easier to go with what you 
can actually get in a reasonable time frame.
   You are about 2000 miles from the nearest big slab of curly hard 
maple you know. Cherry, birch or hickory ditto.

Soft western big leaf maple you can probably get reasonable, but its 
barely hard enough for the purpose. People mostly slice that into veneer 
for guitar tops.
  There are endless walnut orchards with slab possibilities all around you.
Sometimes they call it claro walnut looking to dress up the name a bit.  
Other fruit and nut trees too.
   You are not eternally far removed from large myrtle slabs. The 
oldtimers here call it pepperwood and sometimes bay laurel in other places.
   No shortage of redwood burls on this side of the continent either.

    If it was me, I'd just drive across the bay to White Bros and see 
what is available right now.
  http://www.whitebrothersmill.com/">http://www.whitebrothersmill.com/

    Your house and life in general can probably use some of their other 
fine products too. ;-)
  I am desperately jealous you can just cruise over and look, you know.
White bros has been in business since 1872.
        yours Scott


-- 
*******************************
    Scott Grandstaff
    Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
    scottg@s...
    http://www.snowcrest.n
et/kitty/sgrandstaff/
    http://www.snowcr
est.net/kitty/hpages/index.html



-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.5863 / Virus Database: 4342/9776 - Release Date: 05/14/15
254695 John Leyden <leydenjl@g...> 2015‑05‑14 Re: Wood advice/pointer
Hey Joe,

Living as I do in a big city such as your own, albeit on the opposite side of
the continent, it is all but certain that you have at least one lumber yard not
too far away that will supply flitch sawn planks from basically anywhere on
earth. You have to look in the burbs though, outside of center city, for a place
that does not spend its money on advertising. Go cruising and when you hit pay
dirt, return with a credit card, a truck and a helper.

We build slab top desks here on the East Coast all the time. Beware, you want
well dried wood. (It oughta be obvious, but just saying.) If you are going to
plane it by hand then you had better expect a helluva workout. Yea verily will
you will plane and scrub!

The undercarriage frame (if any) and legs are most cheaply made from square or
tubular mild steel a la Big Box store. If you make a frame, which will help a
lot to keep a less than ideal top flat, then weld it. If you’re just looking for
legs, then black iron pipe and flanges are had the most cheaply. Some of that
material is made in Canada, some of it halfway around the globe. I have been
known to highlight the “Made in Canada” on the angle iron that I come across,
and in one case painted the raised lettering a contrasting color for a young
lady who let on in conversation that she was born in Toronto and just happened
to be working in NYC. She was thrilled!

Depending on the weight of the slab you could get by with aluminum fence poles
for legs. However, they won’t stand sideways stress on the table too well. If
you really want aluminum then look up “speed rail.” It’s expensive but worth
every penny in terms of solidity and ease of assembly/disassembly. It is a huge
asset to the film/theater industry.

As for the black coloration, dye works. But in honor of the late Mr. Thompson
and others who have gone before him you might consider ebonization. (Heck, if
you’re gonna do a family project you might as well pull out all the stops,
right?) I recall Jim having written that his experience with steel wool
dissolved in white vinegar, as a stain for wood of most types, produced a hue
that was a bit bluish for his eye. I never doubted him on that and went looking
for a curative for it, and came upon something called “quebracho,” which is a
bark powder/extract that is mostly used for tanning hides. When used in
conjunction with steel wool and vinegar, the result is as black as coal. It
needs a topcoat of course, but the nice thing is that the grain of woods such as
white ash show right through. If that’s the look and feel you’re after you might
want to do a little research.

Regards from the East Cost,

JL
254696 Kirk Eppler <eppler.kirk@g...> 2015‑05‑14 Re: Wood advice/pointer
On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 10:12 AM, Joe Jerkins 
wrote:

>
> So, recommendations on sources of maple slabs.  Also, any suggestions for
> final finish (oil and varnish, oil and shellac, no oil?...) and source of
> tube legs would be appreciated.
>

Here are a few sources of slabs, some even local.  Not sure many are maple
though.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/maa?query=slab+-granite+-quartz+-mar
ble+-counter">http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/maa?query=slab+-granite+-quartz
+-marble+-counter


http://greenwasterecycleyard.com/">http://greenwasterecycleyard.com/
(Rumor is a BAG is the contact)

Not sure White Bros is still selling slabs Scott, last time I was in there
it was all milled stock.


-- 
Kirk Eppler in HMB, but who is just across campus from Joe right now
254697 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2015‑05‑14 Re: Wood advice/pointer
According to my personal files, Quebracho is aka Red Lignum Vitae, Break 
Axe and also ( surprise!) ironwood, and comes from Argentina. It's 
apparently an irritant. I believe it acts as a mordant.

A 2009 Popular Woodworking article by Brian Boggs described his 
experience using it in combination with an iron/vinegar stain. It 
definitely sounds like it's worth a try.  I have a pdf of the article if 
someone wants it.

Don Schwartz



On 2015-05-14 3:14 PM, John Leyden wrote:
> As for the black coloration, dye works. But in honor of the late Mr. Thompson
and others who have gone before him you might consider ebonization. (Heck, if
you’re gonna do a family project you might as well pull out all the stops,
right?) I recall Jim having written that his experience with steel wool
dissolved in white vinegar, as a stain for wood of most types, produced a hue
that was a bit bluish for his eye. I never doubted him on that and went looking
for a curative for it, and came upon something called “quebracho,” which is a
bark powder/extract that is mostly used for tanning hides. When used in
conjunction with steel wool and vinegar, the result is as black as coal. It
needs a topcoat of course, but the nice thing is that the grain of woods such as
white ash show right through. If that’s the look and feel you’re after you might
want to do a little research.
254699 Joe Jerkins <jerkinsj@s...> 2015‑05‑15 Re: Wood advice/pointer
Thanks Scott.  Good advice.  I will check them out.  Their website only mentions
moldings so I'll send them an email.  .
We'll also check out the walnut and myrtle.  If it has figure, will take aniline
dye well and is hard enough for a working surface, it should work. My experience
with redwood burls is they are beautiful but too soft.
Kind regards,joe
 

     From: scott grandstaff 
 To: porch  
 Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 11:00 AM
 Subject: Re: [OldTools] Wood advice/pointer
   


Joe
While it is sometimes possible to access wood that you picked out in 
your mind, in advance, its always 1000 times easier to go with what you 
can actually get in a reasonable time frame.
  You are about 2000 miles from the nearest big slab of curly hard 
maple you know. Cherry, birch or hickory ditto.

Soft western big leaf maple you can probably get reasonable, but its 
barely hard enough for the purpose. People mostly slice that into veneer 
for guitar tops.
  There are endless walnut orchards with slab possibilities all around you.
Sometimes they call it claro walnut looking to dress up the name a bit.  
Other fruit and nut trees too.
  You are not eternally far removed from large myrtle slabs. The 
oldtimers here call it pepperwood and sometimes bay laurel in other places.
  No shortage of redwood burls on this side of the continent either.

    If it was me, I'd just drive across the bay to White Bros and see 
what is available right now.
  http://www.whitebrothersmill.com/">http://www.whitebrothersmill.com/

    Your house and life in general can probably use some of their other 
fine products too. ;-)
  I am desperately jealous you can just cruise over and look, you know.
White bros has been in business since 1872.
        yours Scott


-- 
*******************************
    Scott Grandstaff
    Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
    scottg@s...
    http://www.snowcrest.n
et/kitty/sgrandstaff/
    http://www.snowcr
est.net/kitty/hpages/index.html



-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.5863 / Virus Database: 4342/9776 - Release Date: 05/14/15
254700 Joe Jerkins <jerkinsj@s...> 2015‑05‑15 Re: Wood advice/pointer
Hi John,
Thank you and the other galoots that replied (on and off list) with advice and
suggestions.  I think designing is one of my favorite parts of a project.  So
many possibilities.  Perhaps this is why so many projects stall part way in?
I've had such good luck with aniline dye that I hesitate to try steel wool.  I
tried it once on oak and it turned out ok, but not as good as the dye.  That
said, the seed has been planted and the idea of adding Quebracho could make it
of more interest to my son.  He's a budding chemist and wants to be a chemical
engineer, so this just might be a hook to get him more actively involved.
Based on some good points from others, I'm now back to considering more local
woods (Myrtle, walnut, etc.)  Looks like it'll just require a trip or two to
lumber yards/saw mills.  I know there's an old mill up near Santa Rosa (~  1
hour north) so this may be a good excuse (pretense - Jeff) to visit.
Thanks for the ideas on metal legs.  I hadn't thought of rails and they could be
mounted with out having to first weld on end plates.
You guys are awesome!Joe  
      From: John Leyden 
 To: oldtools@s... 
 Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 2:14 PM
 Subject: Re: [OldTools] Wood advice/pointer
   
Hey Joe,

Living as I do in a big city such as your own, albeit on the opposite side of
the continent, it is all but certain that you have at least one lumber yard not
too far away that will supply flitch sawn planks from basically anywhere on
earth. You have to look in the burbs though, outside of center city, for a place
that does not spend its money on advertising. Go cruising and when you hit pay
dirt, return with a credit card, a truck and a helper.

We build slab top desks here on the East Coast all the time. Beware, you want
well dried wood. (It oughta be obvious, but just saying.) If you are going to
plane it by hand then you had better expect a helluva workout. Yea verily will
you will plane and scrub!

The undercarriage frame (if any) and legs are most cheaply made from square or
tubular mild steel a la Big Box store. If you make a frame, which will help a
lot to keep a less than ideal top flat, then weld it. If you’re just looking for
legs, then black iron pipe and flanges are had the most cheaply. Some of that
material is made in Canada, some of it halfway around the globe. I have been
known to highlight the “Made in Canada” on the angle iron that I come across,
and in one case painted the raised lettering a contrasting color for a young
lady who let on in conversation that she was born in Toronto and just happened
to be working in NYC. She was thrilled!

Depending on the weight of the slab you could get by with aluminum fence poles
for legs. However, they won’t stand sideways stress on the table too well. If
you really want aluminum then look up “speed rail.” It’s expensive but worth
every penny in terms of solidity and ease of assembly/disassembly. It is a huge
asset to the film/theater industry.

As for the black coloration, dye works. But in honor of the late Mr. Thompson
and others who have gone before him you might consider ebonization. (Heck, if
you’re gonna do a family project you might as well pull out all the stops,
right?) I recall Jim having written that his experience with steel wool
dissolved in white vinegar, as a stain for wood of most types, produced a hue
that was a bit bluish for his eye. I never doubted him on that and went looking
for a curative for it, and came upon something called “quebracho,” which is a
bark powder/extract that is mostly used for tanning hides. When used in
conjunction with steel wool and vinegar, the result is as black as coal. It
needs a topcoat of course, but the nice thing is that the grain of woods such as
white ash show right through. If that’s the look and feel you’re after you might
want to do a little research.

Regards from the East Cost,

JL
254702 "Ray Sheley Jr." <rsheley@r...> 2015‑05‑15 Re: Wood advice/pointer
A 2009 Popular Woodworking article by Brian Boggs described his experience 
using it in combination with an iron/vinegar stain. It
definitely sounds like it's worth a try.  I have a pdf of the article if 
someone wants it.

Don Schwartz


I for one would appreciate the .pdf.
Thanks in advance.
254703 scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> 2015‑05‑15 Re: Wood advice/pointer
guys..........
  its tannic acid
tannic acid plus iron oxide
        makes ink.

    some woods, like certain oaks and others,
  have plenty of natural tannins.
  so you just make a rust soup (iron reduced into vinegar etc)
  and use that, and get plenty of color.

   Other woods you have to add your own tannic acid brew to the wood
   ( dissolved in water)

     bathed in one brew after the other,
   I don't think it matters which you use first.

   The thing that does matter is gloves and other precautions.
   You are basically making at least mostly permanent ink and it stains 
whatever it touches.
   You included.
        yours Scott

-- 
*******************************
    Scott Grandstaff
    Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
    scottg@s...
    http://www.snowcrest.n
et/kitty/sgrandstaff/
    http://www.snowcr
est.net/kitty/hpages/index.html



-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.5941 / Virus Database: 4342/9778 - Release Date: 05/14/15
255306 Joe Jerkins <jerkinsj@s...> 2015‑07‑02 Re: Wood advice/pointer
Dear Galoots,
Thanks for all the advice.  I did choose to go with something local and made an
enjoyable day trip out of it.  After trading emails with Nathan Anderson
(Anderson's Alternatives) in Mendocino, CA, I made the drive up there yesterday
to pick out a slab.  SWMBO tagged along for the ride (lots of beautiful BIG
trees in that part of CA).  While the weather inland was an oven-like 101
degrees, Mendocino was a refreshing 64.  Nathan had a bunch of slabs pulled for
me (Pecan, Claro Walnut, OG Doug Fir and BL Maple).  I ended up getting a Claro
slab.  It had a bit of a cup to it so he flattened it in his 72" wide belt
s@n...@r for a very reasonable price.  Given the slab is 10' by 2' and almost
1/2" had to be removed on the high spots, this was money well spent.
With slab hanging out the back of the station wagon, the trip home was
uneventful.  Every place I stopped (gas station, Ace Hardware - for a red flag),
I had at least one person come up and ask about the wood.  Everyone likes good
wood.
Anyway, pictures of the wood freshly off-loaded from the car below.galootcentral.com/component/option,com_copperminevis/Itemid,2/place,displayim
age/album,lastup/cat,0/pos,0/or">http://galootcentral.com/component/option,com_c
opperminevis/Itemid,2/place,displayimage/album,lastup/cat,0/pos,0/or http://tinyurl.com/kowj26f">http://tinyurl.com/kowj26f
http://galootcentral.com/component/option,com_copperminevis/Itemid,2/pl
ace,displayimage/album,208/pos,1/or">http://galootcentral.com/component/option,c
om_copperminevis/Itemid,2/place,displayimage/album,208/pos,1/or http://tinyurl.com/pykgo29">http://tinyurl.com/pykgo29
Next step is to remove the sap wood as it has some signs of bugs yet keep the
natural edge.  Time to search the internets....  Although hints from the
galooteratti would be most welcome.
Joe Jerkins - Enjoying another day off in foggy San Francisco



My 16 year old son asked me to build him a desk.  Woo hoo.  An excuse for some
shop time.  We've settled on the design, but I'm having a tough time finding a
suitable piece of wood.  Your recommendations of places to contact would be most
appreciated.
Example of style here https://www.urbanhardwoods.com/furniture_listing?
id=2072&product=Maple_Table&location=Santa_Monica">https://www.urbanhardwoods.co
m/furniture_listing?id=2072&product=Maple_Table&location=Santa_Monica
255307 Joseph Parker <joeparker@s...> 2015‑07‑02 Re: Wood advice/pointer
To remove the sap wood, I would just take a draw knife/chisel and split it
off.  For the desk, in keeping with your live edge slab theme, check out
West Coast Woods (part of Jackel in Watsonville):

http://www.westcoastwoods.com
/slabs.html

You might find a suitable plank of elm or black acacia.

Joe P. - tempted by the 8/4 sapele Jackel has on sale

On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 1:04 PM, Joe Jerkins  wrote:

> Dear Galoots,
>
> Thanks for all the advice.  I did choose to go with something local and
> made an enjoyable day trip out of it.  After trading emails with Nathan
> Anderson (Anderson's Alternatives) in Mendocino, CA, I made the drive up
> there yesterday to pick out a slab.  SWMBO tagged along for the ride (lots
> of beautiful BIG trees in that part of CA).  While the weather inland was
> an oven-like 101 degrees, Mendocino was a refreshing 64.  Nathan had a
> bunch of slabs pulled for me (Pecan, Claro Walnut, OG Doug Fir and BL
> Maple).  I ended up getting a Claro slab.  It had a bit of a cup to it so
> he flattened it in his 72" wide belt s@n...@r for a very reasonable price.
> Given the slab is 10' by 2' and almost 1/2" had to be removed on the high
> spots, this was money well spent.
>
> With slab hanging out the back of the station wagon, the trip home was
> uneventful.  Every place I stopped (gas station, Ace Hardware - for a red
> flag), I had at least one person come up and ask about the wood.  Everyone
> likes good wood.
>
> Anyway, pictures of the wood freshly off-loaded from the car below.
>
> http://galootcentral.com/component/option,com_copperminevis/Itemid,2/
place,displayimage/album,lastup/cat,0/pos,0/">http://galootcentral.com/component
/option,com_copperminevis/Itemid,2/place,displayimage/album,lastup/cat,0/pos,0/<
/a>
> or http://tinyurl.com/kowj26f
>
>
> http://galootcentral.com/component/option,com_copperminevis/Itemid,2/
place,displayimage/album,208/pos,1/">http://galootcentral.com/component/option,c
om_copperminevis/Itemid,2/place,displayimage/album,208/pos,1/
> or http://tinyurl.com/pykgo29
>
> Next step is to remove the sap wood as it has some signs of bugs yet keep
> the natural edge.  Time to search the internets....  Although hints from
> the galooteratti would be most welcome.
>
> Joe Jerkins - Enjoying another day off in foggy San Francisco
>
>
> 
>
>
> My 16 year old son asked me to build him a desk.  Woo hoo.  An excuse for
> some shop time.  We've settled on the design, but I'm having a tough time
> finding a suitable piece of wood.  Your recommendations of places to
> contact would be most appreciated.
>
> Example of style here
> https://www.urbanhardwoods.com/furniture_listing?id=2072&product=Mapl
e_Table&location=Santa_Monica">https://www.urbanhardwoods.com/furniture_listing?
id=2072&product=Maple_Table&location=Santa_Monica
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ba-galoots mailing list
> Ba-galoots@l...
> https://lists.sonic.net/mailman/listinfo/ba-
galoots">https://lists.sonic.net/mailman/listinfo/ba-galoots
>
>
255319 Claudio DeLorenzi <claudio@d...> 2015‑07‑03 Re: Wood advice/pointer
>
>
> " Everyone likes good wood."
Haha, the older I get, the more I realize the truth of this statement.
Claudio in Waterloo pondering double entendres


-- 
Sent from Gmail Mobile
255321 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2015‑07‑03 Re: Wood advice/pointer
Blues guitar player Roy Bookbinder said that Reverend Gary Davis, better better
blues guitar player, was master of the single entendre.

Ed Minch


On Jul 3, 2015, at 5:42 AM, Claudio DeLorenzi  wrote:
>> 
>> " Everyone likes good wood."
> Haha, the older I get, the more I realize the truth of this statement.
> Claudio in Waterloo pondering double entendres
>
255334 Joe Jerkins <jerkinsj@s...> 2015‑07‑06 Re: Wood advice/pointer
Latest update:  First real shop time in a loooong time and boy was it nice.
Radio playing, doors open for extra light and a nice cross breeze. Time flew. I
spent almost 4 hours with a sharp drawknife (P S and W 8") and spoke shave
(Stanley #67)  July 3 removing the bark and buggy parts.  I think I got it all
cleaned up and no remaining bugs.  I'll let it acclimate for a bit and keep my
eye on it.
Pictures:http://galootcentral.com/components/cpgalbums/userpics/10276/I
MG_5034.JPGor">ictures:http://galootcentral.com/components/cpgalbums/userpics/10
276/IMG_5034.JPGor http://tinyurl.com/ogrtewj">http://tinyurl.com/ogrtewj
and http://galootcentral.com/components/cpgalbums/userpics/10276/IMG_50
33.JPGor">http://galootcentral.com/components/cpgalbums/userpics/10276/IMG_5033.
JPGor http://tinyurl.com/q88n96h
Cheers all,Joe

       From: Joe Jerkins 
 To: Joe Jerkins ; Bags Galoots List ; OldTools
List 
Cc: JB Alegiani ; Paul Brown  
 Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2015 1:04 PM
 Subject: Re: Wood advice/pointer
   
Dear Galoots,
Thanks for all the advice.  I did choose to go with something local and made an
enjoyable day trip out of it.  After trading emails with Nathan Anderson
(Anderson's Alternatives) in Mendocino, CA, I made the drive up there yesterday
to pick out a slab.  SWMBO tagged along for the ride (lots of beautiful BIG
trees in that part of CA).  While the weather inland was an oven-like 101
degrees, Mendocino was a refreshing 64.  Nathan had a bunch of slabs pulled for
me (Pecan, Claro Walnut, OG Doug Fir and BL Maple).  I ended up getting a Claro
slab.  It had a bit of a cup to it so he flattened it in his 72" wide belt
s@n...@r for a very reasonable price.  Given the slab is 10' by 2' and almost
1/2" had to be removed on the high spots, this was money well spent.
With slab hanging out the back of the station wagon, the trip home was
uneventful.  Every place I stopped (gas station, Ace Hardware - for a red flag),
I had at least one person come up and ask about the wood.  Everyone likes good
wood.
Anyway, pictures of the wood freshly off-loaded from the car below.galootcentral.com/component/option,com_copperminevis/Itemid,2/place,displayim
age/album,lastup/cat,0/pos,0/or">http://galootcentral.com/component/option,com_c
opperminevis/Itemid,2/place,displayimage/album,lastup/cat,0/pos,0/or http://tinyurl.com/kowj26f">http://tinyurl.com/kowj26f
http://galootcentral.com/component/option,com_copperminevis/Itemid,2/pl
ace,displayimage/album,208/pos,1/or">http://galootcentral.com/component/option,c
om_copperminevis/Itemid,2/place,displayimage/album,208/pos,1/or http://tinyurl.com/pykgo29">http://tinyurl.com/pykgo29
Next step is to remove the sap wood as it has some signs of bugs yet keep the
natural edge.  Time to search the internets....  Although hints from the
galooteratti would be most welcome.
Joe Jerkins - Enjoying another day off in foggy San Francisco



My 16 year old son asked me to build him a desk.  Woo hoo.  An excuse for some
shop time.  We've settled on the design, but I'm having a tough time finding a
suitable piece of wood.  Your recommendations of places to contact would be most
appreciated.
Example of style here https://www.urbanhardwoods.com/furniture_listing?
id=2072&product=Maple_Table&location=Santa_Monica">https://www.urbanhardwoods.co
m/furniture_listing?id=2072&product=Maple_Table&location=Santa_Monica

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