OldTools Archive

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254344 Joe West <joewest64@h...> 2015‑04‑17 Field Knife Sharpener
GGs
I bought a knife sharpener.

http://www.worksharptools.com/guided-field-
sharpener-221.html">http://www.worksharptools.com/guided-field-
sharpener-221.html

It works well.  But, I can't get my knifes sharp enough to shave hair off my
arm.  I wonder if there is something wrong with my technique.  How do others
sharpen their knives?

Joe West
Sent from my iPod
254345 "John M Johnston (jmjhnstn)" <jmjhnstn@m...> 2015‑04‑17 Re: Field Knife Sharpener
My son the chef uses a 1000 grit Norton stone (same as we would use for a plane
blade), no jig or guide. He touches it up with a steel as needed. That's the way
he was taught at the New England Culinary Institute.

Works for me as well. 

YMMV,
J~

John M. Johnston
“P.S. If you do not receive this, of course it must have been miscarried;
therefore I beg you to write and let me know.” - Sir Boyle Roche, M.P.

On Apr 17, 2015, at 8:23 AM, "Joe West"  wrote:

> How do others sharpen their knives?
>
254348 Tim <tpendleton@g...> 2015‑04‑17 Re: Field Knife Sharpener
I keep a broken off chunk of  of a 50 cent flea market sharpening stone
(probably 27cents worth) in my backpack for field use.  I'm conserving arm
hair at present so the shaving test has not been conducted. The next time I
see a woodchuck in the wild (Natalie's little buddy, Jeff)  I will attempt
to shave the rascal.

For shop use, I have an assortment of coarse to very fine oil stones. Most
of the stones were 'experienced' when acquired. No shave test again, but
there are plenty of squirrels in the yard...

The Git and I are building a new birdhouse, to replace one that the
squirrels trashed, so some pine shaving is on the agenda today.

Tim

Spring has finally arrived in northern NJ!
On Apr 17, 2015 9:26 AM, "Joe West"  wrote:

> GGs
> I bought a knife sharpener.
>
> http://www.worksharptools.com/guided-field-
sharpener-221.html">http://www.worksharptools.com/guided-field-
sharpener-221.html
>
> It works well.  But, I can't get my knifes sharp enough to shave hair off
> my arm.  I wonder if there is something wrong with my technique.  How do
> others sharpen their knives?
>
> Joe West
> Sent from my iPod
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
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tools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
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>
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254352 Michael Blair <branson2@s...> 2015‑04‑17 Re: Field Knife Sharpener
Most dull knives can be made sharp in under 30 seconds with a
saw file.  If you want them shaving sharp, hone them after the
saw file work.  The critical thing is to maintain the angle,
whatever system you use.

Mike in Sacto
254361 galoot@l... 2015‑04‑17 Re: Field Knife Sharpener
Quoting Joe West :

Joe said:

> GGs
> I bought a knife sharpener.
>
> http://www.worksharptools.com/guided-field-
sharpener-221.html">http://www.worksharptools.com/guided-field-
sharpener-221.html
>
> It works well.  But, I can't get my knifes sharp enough to shave
hair
> off my arm.  I wonder if there is something wrong with my
technique. 
> How do others sharpen their knives?

In the kitchen I use a 2-sided synthetic stone from the hardware store 
a number of years ago.  I suspect oil was intended but I usually use a 
bit of dish soap with a bit of water.  It is possible to go nuts with 
scary sharp and fine sandpaper, but in the kitchen I see it as more 
like turning tools; get them sharp enough quickly and keep on chopping. 
  The test is not forearm hair (I have wimpy delicate hair that ducks 
instead of cutting) but what it feels like going through the meat or 
the carrot.  When you have cut either with a sharp knife you will know 
when it's sharp again.

Esther
(you are using good carbon steel blades?  Don't waste you time with the 
shiny non-rusting "never needs sharpening" stuff...)
254363 Ed Minch <ruby@m...> 2015‑04‑17 Re: Field Knife Sharpener
Good advice Esther.

I use a fairly smooth steel to reshape my kitchen knife blades without
abrasives.  Once in a while i run them through a “V” shaped set of coarse rods,
then a “V” shaped set of smooth ceramic rods put a fresh grind on it.  For shop
knives, my scary sharp sandpaper-on-glass helps - I run through the grits up to
about 600 unless I am doing something that needs 2000 emory paper.

Ed Minch




On Apr 17, 2015, at 5:42 PM, galoot@l... wrote:

> In the kitchen I use a 2-sided synthetic stone from the hardware store a
number of years ago.  I suspect oil was intended but I usually use a bit of dish
soap with a bit of water.  It is possible to go nuts with scary sharp and fine
sandpaper, but in the kitchen I see it as more like turning tools; get them
sharp enough quickly and keep on chopping.  The test is not forearm hair (I have
wimpy delicate hair that ducks instead of cutting) but what it feels like going
through the meat or the carrot.  When you have cut either with a sharp knife you
will know when it's sharp again.
> 
> Esther
> (you are using good carbon steel blades?  Don't waste you time with the shiny
non-rusting "never needs sharpening" stuff...)
254364 "Peter Evans" <peterrevans@o...> 2015‑04‑17 Re: Field Knife Sharpener
Me too. I use a 1000 grit King, works well. My touching up on a ceramic
"steel" is less successful, probably because my wife never puts a knife to
the steel (as well as my poor technique). But off the stone - great.


Cheers
Peter

Peter Evans
Sydney, Australia

-----Original Message-----
From: OldTools [mailto:oldtools-
bounces@s...] On Behalf Of John M
Johnston (jmjhnstn)
Sent: Friday, 17 April 2015 11:58 PM
To: Joe West
Cc: oldtools@s...
Subject: Re: [OldTools] Field Knife Sharpener

My son the chef uses a 1000 grit Norton stone (same as we would use for a
plane blade), no jig or guide. He touches it up with a steel as needed.
That's the way he was taught at the New England Culinary Institute. 

Works for me as well.
254365 Darrell & Kathy <larchmont@s...> 2015‑04‑18 Re: Field Knife Sharpener
On 17/04/2015 9:22 AM, Joe West wrote:
>
 > I bought a knife sharpener.
 >
 > It works well.  But, I can't get my knifes sharp enough to shave hair
 > off my arm.  I wonder if there is something wrong with my technique.
 > How do others sharpen their knives?
 >

Hi Joe,

Well, it depends on the knife.

Kitchen knives get sharpened using a small stone I keep in the
itchen drawer.  About half our kitchen knives are stainless, the
others are ugly, old, stained carbon steel.  Gotta love those old
ones, easy to get them wicked sharp.

Pocket knives get a similar treatment, but usually down in the shop
and on finer stones, so they get a bit sharper.

The carving knives (Frost and Opinel mostly) get serious treatment.
These are for carving spoons and other greenwood working.
Diamond plate to shape the edge if necessary, depends on what
level of abuse the knives have been through.  If the Scout Troop
has been doing a carving gig then yeah, the knives usually need
more than a touch-up.  Then the small cream coloured hard
arkansas oil-stone, followed by a strop.  Those knives you can
shave with.

Then it's the exotic stuff like the hook knives for hollowing
spoons and shrink pots.  They see the small ceramic hone
and then get polished on the strop.  I want these as sharp
as I can possibly get them.

One important thing about a knife is to *shape* the edge before
honing it.  I'll even drawfile a blade to get it to the shape I like
before going to the stones.  New knives often have a really poor
shape to them,  The Opinel and Frost knives are an exception.
They show up with a decent shape.  Most of the knives the
Scouts show up with just have what appears to be a 60 degree
angle for the edge, with a teeny little bevel.  Look at a new
one some time.  Awful stuff.  Bring me my file!

-- 
Darrell LaRue
Oakville ON
Wood Hoarder, Blade Sharpener, and Occasional Tool User
254366 Bill Ghio <bghio@m...> 2015‑04‑18 Re: Field Knife Sharpener
Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 17, 2015, at 6:23 PM, Peter Evans  wrote:
> 
> Me too. I use a 1000 grit King, works well. My touching up on a ceramic
> "steel" is less successful, probably because my wife never puts a knife to
> the steel (as well as my poor technique). But off the stone - great.

My kitchen knives get treated to a ceramic "steel" on a regular basis.  The
carbon knives usually only see it if the smooth steel can't rescue the edge. The
stainless knives, my wife's, periodically need to visit the diamond steel for a
little shaping before the ceramic. Even my shop knives come upstairs for the
same treatment.  I find the steels very effective, but then I have been using
them for about 20 years and have certainly improved over the years. I also have
the lanky deluxe (http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Deluxe-Lansky-
Sharpening-System-P102.aspx">http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Deluxe-Lansky-
Sharpening-System-P102.aspx) system ($10 at an anteek maul) that I have used
a few times and it works very well.

Bill
254419 Bruce Zenge <brucensherry@g...> 2015‑04‑19 Re: Field Knife Sharpener
OK, Here's where I have to 'fess up and admit to power use.  I have a
water-wash glass grinder that is near as old as I am, that puts the
edge on without damage from heat.  Then the final edge is applied
through judicious use of the ceramic sticks.  I know this isn't the
traditional way of sharpening using the fine carborundum, then the
soft Arkansas, then the hard Arkansas and finally the hard black stone
I used to use, but when you sharpen for all the ladies in the family,
time is more precious than tradition.  And the edges stay good for a
surprising amount of time, even when abused by cutting on glass.  Hey,
I made major progress years ago when MLW stopped putting them in the
dishwasher.  I was pleased to get that concession.

YMMV
Bruce Z.
Des Moines, IA
254430 Bruce Zenge <brucensherry@g...> 2015‑04‑20 Re: Field Knife Sharpener
Yeah, that's the biggest thing that can cause damage.  My other
concern is the damage that occurs to wood handles in the dishwasher.
Probably not a big worry for some folks, but there is a huge
difference between the appearance of a knife that has been hand washed
and one run through the dishwasher many times.

I have rarely paid more than a little for the older knives, but I do
try to keep them working well and looking good.  Fortunately, MLW buys
into my peculiarities.

Bruce Z.
Des Moines, IA

On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 8:20 AM, Gye Greene  wrote:
> Bruce,
>
>
> Sorry -- what's wrong with putting them in the dishwasher?  Is it because
> the cutting edges bang together?
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> --Travis (Brisbane, AU)
>
254433 Gye Greene <gyegreene@g...> 2015‑04‑20 Re: Field Knife Sharpener
Hm.  Maybe I should store our paring knives blade-up, in a jar of BLO...
:)


--Travis

On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 11:27 AM, Bruce Zenge 
wrote:

> Yeah, that's the biggest thing that can cause damage.  My other
> concern is the damage that occurs to wood handles in the dishwasher.
> Probably not a big worry for some folks, but there is a huge
> difference between the appearance of a knife that has been hand washed
> and one run through the dishwasher many times.
>
> I have rarely paid more than a little for the older knives, but I do
> try to keep them working well and looking good.  Fortunately, MLW buys
> into my peculiarities.
>
> Bruce Z.
> Des Moines, IA
>
> On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 8:20 AM, Gye Greene  wrote:
> > Bruce,
> >
> >
> > Sorry -- what's wrong with putting them in the dishwasher?  Is it because
> > the cutting edges bang together?
> >
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> >
> > --Travis (Brisbane, AU)
> >
>
254438 Jeff Oberg <jaoberg@g...> 2015‑04‑20 Re: Field Knife Sharpener
As a semi reformed professional, I have serious views on kitchen knife
sharpening. I had every cook in every kitchen I ever worked in pick up one of my
knives without asking and say, "Hey, is this thing..." At which point they would
start bleeding because just running the pad of their thumb across the blade was
often enough to break the skin. I'm a little (freakishly) obsessed with
sharpness. It was inevitable that I get into hand tools.

So here are my two cents on kitchen knife sharpening. If you are going to use a
jig realize that every kitchen knife with the exception of a Sheep's Foot paring
knife has a curved blade. I have yet to find a jig that does even an adequate
job on curved edges.

It's also important to remember that the total included angle from the factory
is usually between 40 and 60 degrees on western knives. Traditional Japanese
knives are often single bevel and as little as 15 degrees for sushi knives.

That said I tend to closer to 30 degrees total included angle to strike a
balance between durability and fine work. My Wüsthof Chef's knife is 40ish total
included angle. My MAC Slicer is closer to 20 degrees.

The actual angle is less important than consistency. As you free hand sharpen a
kitchen knife you will slowly change the bevel from the factory edge to the
angle your hands naturally follow. I usually work a new (to me) knife on a
course stone until I raise a burr the full length of the edge on one side, then
do the same on the other. I lose a few thousandths of an inch of blade this way.
Now the knife is sharpened to the angle I naturally use. Because it is used to
my hands now it will be more consistent. I can shave my face with my Chef's
knife (Rockwell 56-58, high carbon stainless) if I have no other options, and
remember it's total included angle is around 40 degrees. The real test of
sharpness is a ripe tomato. If you can slice a ripe tomato with a knife without
deforming it, your knife is sharp.

For touch ups I use an F. Dick Monocrystaline Diamond Hone/Steel. It is similar
to a very fine diamond stone in that it removes and polishes out imperfections
and corrects the bevel. I use it every single time I pick up a knife. Another
reason to freehand, so your angles are similar.

If I were to use a traditional steel I would use something that looked like a
burnisher for a card scraper. The point of a steel in that case is to straighten
and smooth the edge as it gets folded over through use. A smooth steel is better
at that than the ridged steels that are sold so often.


Jeff

> On Apr 17, 2015, at 9:22 AM, Joe West  wrote:
> 
> GGs
> I bought a knife sharpener.
> 
> http://www.worksharptools.com/guided-field-
sharpener-221.html">http://www.worksharptools.com/guided-field-
sharpener-221.html
> 
> It works well.  But, I can't get my knifes sharp enough to shave hair off my
arm.  I wonder if there is something wrong with my technique.  How do others
sharpen their knives?
> 
> Joe West
> Sent from my iPod
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
> 
> To change your subscription options:
> http://old
tools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
> 
> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archi
ve/faq.html
> 
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/ot/">http://swingleydev.com/ot/
> 
> OldTools@s...
> http://old
tools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
254439 paul womack <pwomack@p...> 2015‑04‑20 Re: Field Knife Sharpener
Jeff Oberg wrote:

> As you free hand sharpen a kitchen knife you will slowly change
> the bevel from the factory edge to the angle
> your hands naturally follow.

"The Angle"?! Singular?!

My hands can (and do) work at all manner of angles, sometimes during a single
sharpening stroke.

They're versatile :-)

  BugBear
254448 Steve Reynolds <s.e.reynolds@v...> 2015‑04‑21 Re: Field Knife Sharpener
On 04/17/15, Esther wrote:

[snip]

In the kitchen I use a 2-sided synthetic stone from the hardware store 
a number of years ago. I suspect oil was intended but I usually use a 
bit of dish soap with a bit of water.

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