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253228 Christopher Swingley <cswingle@s...> 2015‑01‑28 Lifting heavy things
GGs,

Scott's mention of jacks and cranes and blocking earlier today
reminded me of one of last summer's projects.  It involves old tools
and wood, but not of a sort we traditionally discuss in this forum.

My house is built on telephone poles driven into the ground about ten
feet from Goldstream Creek, which is a meandering creek just north and
west of Fairbanks.  Normally, the water is between eight and twelve
feet below the banks, and it's about 40 feet from one bank to the
other.  We have a nice bridge across it, made from a pair of spruce
logs laid across the Creek, with 2x6 planks nailed between the log
supports.

In June it rained.  A lot.  Since most of the ground around here is
permanently frozen year round, it doesn't take much to saturate the
active layer at the surface with water.  July started off with a
couple more inches of rain, and the Creek went over it's banks.  About
two feet over:

http://youtu.be/PCjNAKWWBT4

Taking our bridge with it:

http://youtu.be/_-kH3M7d0PY

After the water came back down, the bridge was grounded around a
couple bends, conveniently behind our back cabin.  Here it is after I
removed more than half of the planking:

http://media.swingleydev.com/img/photolog/2014/07/disassembling_old_bri
dge_2014-07.jpg">http://media.swingleydev.com/img/photolog/2014/07/disassembling
_old_bridge_2014-07.jpg

The guy that came out to help us lift up our log cabin to prevent
future flooding damage mentioned that I should just lift the logs back
up where they were, put new planks on it, and I'd have my bridge back.
I've moved some heavy things (every push a Harley a mile down I-5
after running out of gas?), but nothing quite as heavy as a pair of 50
foot spruce logs, and certainly not in a situation like the banks of a
creek.

But it turned out not to be all that difficult.  I built an A-frame
from a pair of 8 foot 4x4 posts and a carriage bolt, got a pair of
rope winches and a strong pulley.  With the A-frame extended out over
the bank and the rope from one winch tied to the end of the log, run
through the pulley at the top of the A-frame, then through the winch
anchored to a tree, and the rope from the other winch tied to the top
of the A-frame to control it's angle over the Creek, I was able to
winch the end of the log up to the level of the bank, then up an onto
the bank.

The trick is to keep the A-frame at an angle over the Creek, *and* the
rope tied to the log out even farther, such that the "log -- A-frame
-- anchor tree" angle was always greater than 90 degrees.  If it's
greater than 90 degrees, tightening the winch raises the end of the
log, and pulls down on the A-frame.  When the angle gets closer to 90,
tightening the winch causes both the end of the log and the top of the
A-frame to rise, and eventually the A-frame comes flying back at the
winch, dropping the log back where it came from.  It took me a few
tries before I figured out the physics of how this works...

Here's a shot of the first lift:

http://media.swingleydev.com/img/photolog/2014/08/end_of_the_log_raised
_to_the_bank_2014-08.jpg">http://media.swingleydev.com/img/photolog/2014/08/end_
of_the_log_raised_to_the_bank_2014-08.jpg

and the second:

http://media.swingleydev.com/img/photolog/2014/08/south_side_end_raisin
g_2014-08.jpg">http://media.swingleydev.com/img/photolog/2014/08/south_side_end_
raising_2014-08.jpg

and the last lift from below (in a canoe):

http://media.swingleydev.com/img/photolog/2014/08/almost_there_2014-08.
jpg">http://media.swingleydev.com/img/photolog/2014/08/almost_there_2014-08.jpg<
/a>

After a couple weekends of work, and nailing down a bunch of rough cut
2x6 planks, the bridge was completely restored in it's new location:

http://media.swingleydev.com/img/photolog/2014/08/decking_is_almost_com
plete_2014-08.jpg">http://media.swingleydev.com/img/photolog/2014/08/decking_is_
almost_complete_2014-08.jpg

Every time I go back there, I'm amazed that I was able to do all that,
by myself, with nothing but a couple winches, a pulley, some ropes and
a simple A-frame.  Physics is pretty cool.

One advantage of using a rope winch is that it has a built-in safety:
if you're putting more weight on the winch than it's designed for, the
rope just slips.  With a come-a-long, reaching the limits is liable to
suddenly break something, which is a lot more dangerous.

One aside: the guy that came to help us raise our back cabin used a
pair of "railroad jacks", one on each end of the bottom logs of the
cabin.  If you ever see a pair of these gadgets at an auction or a
yard sale or something, they're amazing.  Here's what one looks like,
lifting the corner of our cabin:

http://media.swingleydev.com/img/photolog/2014/08/raising_the_back_cabi
n_2014-08.jpg">http://media.swingleydev.com/img/photolog/2014/08/raising_the_bac
k_cabin_2014-08.jpg

Cheers,

Chris
-- 
Christopher Swingley
Fairbanks, Alaska
http://swingleydev.com/
cswingle@s...
253233 Jim Cook <jim-cook@c...> 2015‑01‑28 Re: Lifting heavy things
That’s really pretty cool Chris.  Speaking only for myself as a single data
point from a suburban area in the contiguous states, I’m really impressed by
what you folks in Alaska are able to do, by simply doing it.  It’s a little
intimidating, but a lot inspirational.

Thanks!

Jim


On Jan 27, 2015, at 10:47 PM, Christopher Swingley  wrote:

GGs,


253234 JAMES THOMPSON <oldmillrat@m...> 2015‑01‑28 Re: Lifting heavy things
On Jan 27, 2015, at 9:44 PM, Jim Cook  wrote:

> That’s really pretty cool Chris.  Speaking only for myself as a single data
point from a suburban area in the contiguous states, I’m really impressed by
what you folks in Alaska are able to do, by simply doing it.  It’s a little
intimidating, but a lot inspirational.

Yeah… I spent some years as a rigging instructor for the Boilermaker’s Union,
and I will have to say that I am impressed with this little feat. I seriously
doubt that I would ever have thought of that exact method, but after looking at
it, it is ingenious. I thought I had seen it all, but now I know I haven’t.

Way to go, Chris! You done GOOD!!!
253235 paul womack <pwomack@p...> 2015‑01‑28 Re: Lifting heavy things
Christopher Swingley wrote:

>
> Every time I go back there, I'm amazed that I was able to do all that,
> by myself, with nothing but a couple winches, a pulley, some ropes and
> a simple A-frame.  Physics is pretty cool.

There was an excellent program on UK TV concerning
the erection (not casting) of Abraham Darby's Iron Bridge.

Short version - A frames and rope.

Long version:

http://www.hdowns.co.uk/ironbr
idge4.htm

(hell, it was back in 2001)

  BugBear
253237 "SHINE, STEVE" <ss9729@a...> 2015‑01‑28 Re: Lifting heavy things
[Chris saves his bridge with some serious inventiveness.]

Well done, Chris!
So, honestly, how many times did you fall in?  :-)
Steve, pondering work in Howell, NJ
253238 Ed Minch <ruby@m...> 2015‑01‑28 Re: Lifting heavy things
7, 2015, at 10:47 PM, Christopher Swingley  wrote:

> 
> Scott's mention of jacks and cranes and blocking earlier today
> reminded me of one of last summer's projects.  It involves old tools
> and wood, but not of a sort we traditionally discuss in this forum.


Chris

Well done - and how common is a 50 foot straight log in your area?  They are
pieces of wood that not only will warm you twice, but now have the potential to
warm you a few more ties before it is all over.

I showed this set of pictures about 2 years ago, but here it is again:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ruby1638/14097256262/in/set-7215764408779
4668/">https://www.flickr.com/photos/ruby1638/14097256262/in/set-721576440877946
68/

My brother lives on the Esopus Creek about 200 yards from the Hudson River below
Albany.  The house is about as close to the creek as Chris’ is, and was built in
the 30’s.  In 1955 there was an epic flood where the house had a couple of
inches of water in it, so it was raised 2 cinder blocks higher, 16”.

In 2011 there was a lot - a lot - of rain in the area.  In fact if you watch
some of CHris’ videos, at the end some videos of that flood come up - Irene by
name.  The creek came up and put 2” of water in the house, so he and his wife
had to move out and fix things up.  He devised a method where he cut the
interior drywall at about 30” off the floor, cut out the wall insulation, and
installed a chair rail and a baseboards with grooves at the back and a removable
piece as a wainscotting.  He changed some wiring to be flood proof, re-
insulated, and finished things off and moved back in.  Since Irene was the 100
year flood he figured he was OK for a while.

Sandy hit the area a year later.  The water rose 13 feet in New York City and
actually filled a couple of tunnels under the East River - yow.  His house is 80
miles up the river and they got 7 feet of that 13.  The water was 22” up the
walls of his freshly re-freshed house.  During Irene, the water came from
upstream, but in Sandy it came from downstream.  Sandy was something like 34”
higher than the epic 1955 flood!!

Again he moved out and in the spring raised the house.  He has a good friend who
is in the Timber Framer’s Guild and he works mostly on mill restoration, but I
also watched him replace one rotted member of a truss in a big old stone barn
without taking the truss apart.  I also had a fun day numbering and
disassembling a 1740 Dutch barn with him and his crew.

He came with his 15 screw jacks and a truck load of timbers, and 4 of us spent
the day lifting the house 28”.  It was - lift and inch on this row of 5, lift an
inch on that row of 5 and back and forth under the house all day.  All the time
wrestling big timbers to set the house on.  Pretty interesting day.

Our sailboat was a few miles away out of the water for the season on the
Roundout Creek in Kingston and the water came up high enough that smaller boats
were floating out into the road, but we need 6 feet of water to float so we were
OK.  I included some pictures showing how easy it is to handle 12 tons with the
right equipment.  They have these machines that can handle a couple of hundred
tons.

OT content - check those screw jacks.

Ed Minch
253239 "james duprie" <j.duprie@c...> 2015‑01‑28 Re: Lifting heavy things
In the a couple of years, I am going to have to figure out how to move a
1500 pound machine into a closed truck. There are no anchor points in the
truck that can take the load, and it will be going up a ramp in order to get
into the truck.

Right now my concept is rollers (how I moved the machine last time - 2"
thick dowels I turned out of firewood), some sort of choc/wedge anti
back-roll, and a long lever bar. Walk it up the ramp in little steps using
the lever bar between the ramp and the bottom of the skid - lift, chock,
reset bar, continue.

I've lifted large boulders uphill in a similar fashion, but they don't tend
to roll back down the ramp....

-JD

-----Original Message-----
From: OldTools [mailto:oldtools-
bounces@s...] On Behalf Of paul
womack
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2015 4:13 AM
To: Christopher Swingley; OldTools List
Subject: Re: [OldTools] Lifting heavy things

Christopher Swingley wrote:

>
> Every time I go back there, I'm amazed that I was able to do all that, 
> by myself, with nothing but a couple winches, a pulley, some ropes and 
> a simple A-frame.  Physics is pretty cool.

There was an excellent program on UK TV concerning the erection (not
casting) of Abraham Darby's Iron Bridge.

Short version - A frames and rope.

Long version:

http://www.hdowns.co.uk/ironbr
idge4.htm

(hell, it was back in 2001)

  BugBear
253243 Dragon List <dragon01list@g...> 2015‑01‑28 Re: Lifting heavy things
james, the movers here at the uni use 3/8" steel rod for their rollers.
they moved a 2-ton safe (on flat ground, fortunately) on those.

bill
felton, ca

On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 5:23 AM, james duprie  wrote:

> In the a couple of years, I am going to have to figure out how to move a
> 1500 pound machine into a closed truck. There are no anchor points in the
> truck that can take the load, and it will be going up a ramp in order to
> get
> into the truck.
>
> Right now my concept is rollers (how I moved the machine last time - 2"
> thick dowels I turned out of firewood), some sort of choc/wedge anti
> back-roll, and a long lever bar. Walk it up the ramp in little steps using
> the lever bar between the ramp and the bottom of the skid - lift, chock,
> reset bar, continue.
>
> I've lifted large boulders uphill in a similar fashion, but they don't tend
> to roll back down the ramp....
>
> -JD
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OldTools [mailto:oldtools-
bounces@s...] On Behalf Of paul
> womack
> Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2015 4:13 AM
> To: Christopher Swingley; OldTools List
> Subject: Re: [OldTools] Lifting heavy things
>
> Christopher Swingley wrote:
>
> >
> > Every time I go back there, I'm amazed that I was able to do all that,
> > by myself, with nothing but a couple winches, a pulley, some ropes and
> > a simple A-frame.  Physics is pretty cool.
>
> There was an excellent program on UK TV concerning the erection (not
> casting) of Abraham Darby's Iron Bridge.
>
> Short version - A frames and rope.
>
> Long version:
>
> http://www.hdowns.co.uk/iron
bridge4.htm
>
> (hell, it was back in 2001)
>
>   BugBear
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> http://old
tools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archi
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>
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/">http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>
> OldTools@s...
> http://old
tools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> http://old
tools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archi
ve/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/">http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>
> OldTools@s...
> http://old
tools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
253244 Christopher Swingley <cswingle@s...> 2015‑01‑28 Re: Lifting heavy things
On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 8:22 AM, Dragon List  wrote:
> james, the movers here at the uni use 3/8" steel rod for their rollers.
> they moved a 2-ton safe (on flat ground, fortunately) on those.

Black pipe is a good, cheap source for rollers that will be used on
flat surfaces.  And, you can buy some Pony clamps along with the pipe
and you'll have something useful for the shop.

Cheers,

Chris
-- 
Christopher Swingley
Fairbanks, Alaska
http://swingleydev.com/
cswingle@s...
253246 RH Hutchins <rhhutchins@h...> 2015‑01‑28 Re: Lifting heavy things
On 1/28/2015 11:33 AM, Christopher Swingley wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 8:22 AM, Dragon List  wrote:
>> james, the movers here at the uni use 3/8" steel rod for their rollers.
>> they moved a 2-ton safe (on flat ground, fortunately) on those.
> Black pipe is a good, cheap source for rollers that will be used on
> flat surfaces.  And, you can buy some Pony clamps along with the pipe
> and you'll have something useful for the shop.
Both good suggestions.  In fact, I've done exactly as Chris suggests in 
the past.

Chris, did you take any shots of the winch you used in lifting the logs 
that support your bridge?


--
253247 JAMES THOMPSON <oldmillrat@m...> 2015‑01‑28 Re: Lifting heavy things
Consider the use of a snatch block. It enables you to pull in one direction
while the load moves in another direction. More than one snatch block can be
used to accomplish strange moves. And you can compound your pull too.

On Jan 28, 2015, at 9:22 AM, Dragon List  wrote:

> james, the movers here at the uni use 3/8" steel rod for their rollers.
> they moved a 2-ton safe (on flat ground, fortunately) on those.
> 
> bill
> felton, ca
> 
> On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 5:23 AM, james duprie  wrote:
> 
>> In the a couple of years, I am going to have to figure out how to move a
>> 1500 pound machine into a closed truck. There are no anchor points in the
>> truck that can take the load, and it will be going up a ramp in order to
>> get
>> into the truck.
>> 
>> Right now my concept is rollers (how I moved the machine last time - 2"
>> thick dowels I turned out of firewood), some sort of choc/wedge anti
>> back-roll, and a long lever bar. Walk it up the ramp in little steps using
>> the lever bar between the ramp and the bottom of the skid - lift, chock,
>> reset bar, continue.
>> 
>> I've lifted large boulders uphill in a similar fashion, but they don't tend
>> to roll back down the ramp....
>> 
>> -JD
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: OldTools [mailto:oldtools-
bounces@s...] On Behalf Of paul
>> womack
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2015 4:13 AM
>> To: Christopher Swingley; OldTools List
>> Subject: Re: [OldTools] Lifting heavy things
>> 
>> Christopher Swingley wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> Every time I go back there, I'm amazed that I was able to do all that,
>>> by myself, with nothing but a couple winches, a pulley, some ropes and
>>> a simple A-frame.  Physics is pretty cool.
>> 
>> There was an excellent program on UK TV concerning the erection (not
>> casting) of Abraham Darby's Iron Bridge.
>> 
>> Short version - A frames and rope.
>> 
>> Long version:
>> 
>> http://www.hdowns.co.uk/iro
nbridge4.htm
>> 
>> (hell, it was back in 2001)
>> 
>>  BugBear
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
>> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
>> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
>> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>> 
>> To change your subscription options:
>> http://ol
dtools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>> 
>> To read the FAQ:
>> http://swingleydev.com/arch
ive/faq.html
>> 
>> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/">http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>> 
>> OldTools@s...
>> http://ol
dtools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
>> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
>> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
>> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>> 
>> To change your subscription options:
>> http://ol
dtools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>> 
>> To read the FAQ:
>> http://swingleydev.com/arch
ive/faq.html
>> 
>> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/">http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>> 
>> OldTools@s...
>> http://ol
dtools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
> 
> To change your subscription options:
> http://old
tools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
> 
> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archi
ve/faq.html
> 
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/">http://swingleydev.com/archive/
> 
> OldTools@s...
> http://old
tools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
253250 Christopher Swingley <cswingle@s...> 2015‑01‑28 Re: Lifting heavy things
Bob,

On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 8:47 AM, RH Hutchins  wrote:
> Chris, did you take any shots of the winch you used in lifting the logs that
> support your bridge?

No, but I think this is the one:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00099FFO
I

They make one with 100 feet of rope, but I couldn't get that locally,
so I bought this model, and bought a bunch of rope, rope hooks, and
those thingies you use to tie rope to itself.  The rope I bought
worked well, but it did wear quite a bit during the process.

Cheers,

Chris
-- 
Christopher Swingley
Fairbanks, Alaska
http://swingleydev.com/
cswingle@s...
253306 C and MA Newbold <cgnewbold@c...> 2015‑01‑30 Re: Lifting heavy things
On 1/28/2015 8:23 AM, james duprie wrote:
> In the a couple of years, I am going to have to figure out how to move a
> 1500 pound machine into a closed truck. There are no anchor points in the
> truck that can take the load, and it will be going up a ramp in order to get
> into the truck.
>
Short answer:  block it up and winch the truck under the machine.

Details:  In a previous life, my father and I used to move 27-40 ft 
boats on cradles by using jacks, wooden rollers and a come along or a 
power winch.  The 27ft boat was on a wooden cradle on grass alongside 
our garage.  We had to load it onto a trailer and haul it 75 miles to 
launch it.   That was our first big boat move.  We wound up moving 
several different boats up 40 ft long at the DIY boat yard where we 
stored the boat for the winter.

We jacked and blocked the cradle up until it was higher than the trailer 
bed and backed the trailer under the front of the cradle. Then we hooked 
a come-a-long between the trailer and the far end of the cradle and 
tightened the cable.  We put rollers/pipes on the trailer bed and 
lowered the front of the cradle onto the rollers. We then released the 
dump truck parking brake and took it out of gear (engine off).  Then we 
slowly winched the trailer under the cradle.  The truck followed the 
trailer.  We added more rollers as more cradle was above the trailer 
bed.  Once the cradle weight was fully on the trailer, we rolled it to 
the proper load position and blocked and secured it with chain binders 
so it would not roll.

You could do a similar move if you can secure your come-a-long to the 
rear of the truck and run the cable to the back of your machine.  You 
may have to rig something to keep the machine from tipping off the 
blocks if the truck is very heavy.  You'll also need enough overhead 
clearance to lift the machine and you may have to build a 
cradle/platform to support the machine.

I think lifting straight up is easier and safer than trying to push/pry 
the machine up a ramp.

Charlie
253312 "james duprie" <j.duprie@c...> 2015‑01‑30 Re: Lifting heavy things
That would work on an open bed truck, but not a box truck - the walls get in
the way :)...
-j

-----Original Message-----
From: OldTools [mailto:oldtools-
bounces@s...] On Behalf Of C and
MA Newbold
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2015 9:35 PM
To: oldtools@s...
Subject: Re: [OldTools] Lifting heavy things


On 1/28/2015 8:23 AM, james duprie wrote:
> In the a couple of years, I am going to have to figure out how to move 
> a
> 1500 pound machine into a closed truck. There are no anchor points in 
> the truck that can take the load, and it will be going up a ramp in 
> order to get into the truck.
>
Short answer:  block it up and winch the truck under the machine.

Details:  In a previous life, my father and I used to move 27-40 ft boats on
cradles by using jacks, wooden rollers and a come along or a power winch.
The 27ft boat was on a wooden cradle on grass alongside our garage.  We had
to load it onto a trailer and haul it 75 miles to 
launch it.   That was our first big boat move.  We wound up moving 
several different boats up 40 ft long at the DIY boat yard where we stored
the boat for the winter.

We jacked and blocked the cradle up until it was higher than the trailer bed
and backed the trailer under the front of the cradle. Then we hooked a
come-a-long between the trailer and the far end of the cradle and tightened
the cable.  We put rollers/pipes on the trailer bed and lowered the front of
the cradle onto the rollers. We then released the dump truck parking brake
and took it out of gear (engine off).  Then we slowly winched the trailer
under the cradle.  The truck followed the trailer.  We added more rollers as
more cradle was above the trailer bed.  Once the cradle weight was fully on
the trailer, we rolled it to the proper load position and blocked and
secured it with chain binders so it would not roll.

You could do a similar move if you can secure your come-a-long to the rear
of the truck and run the cable to the back of your machine.  You may have to
rig something to keep the machine from tipping off the blocks if the truck
is very heavy.  You'll also need enough overhead clearance to lift the
machine and you may have to build a cradle/platform to support the machine.

I think lifting straight up is easier and safer than trying to push/pry the
machine up a ramp.

Charlie
253315 C and MA Newbold <cgnewbold@c...> 2015‑01‑30 Re: Lifting heavy things
Have you considered using an open top utility trailer?

I also think you could do it in a box truck as the only inside access 
needed would be to position rollers.  You could do that before the 
machine enters the box and adjust them by pushing/pulling with poles to 
put them into place if the machine is too big to walk around.

Charlie

On 1/30/2015 8:05 AM, james duprie wrote:
> That would work on an open bed truck, but not a box truck - the walls get in
> the way :)...
> -j
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OldTools [mailto:oldtools-
bounces@s...] On Behalf Of C and
> MA Newbold
> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2015 9:35 PM
> To: oldtools@s...
> Subject: Re: [OldTools] Lifting heavy things
>
>
> On 1/28/2015 8:23 AM, james duprie wrote:
>> In the a couple of years, I am going to have to figure out how to move
>> a
>> 1500 pound machine into a closed truck. There are no anchor points in
>> the truck that can take the load, and it will be going up a ramp in
>> order to get into the truck.
>>
> Short answer:  block it up and winch the truck under the machine.
>
> Details:  In a previous life, my father and I used to move 27-40 ft boats on
> cradles by using jacks, wooden rollers and a come along or a power winch.
> The 27ft boat was on a wooden cradle on grass alongside our garage.  We had
> to load it onto a trailer and haul it 75 miles to
> launch it.   That was our first big boat move.  We wound up moving
> several different boats up 40 ft long at the DIY boat yard where we stored
> the boat for the winter.
>
> We jacked and blocked the cradle up until it was higher than the trailer bed
> and backed the trailer under the front of the cradle. Then we hooked a
> come-a-long between the trailer and the far end of the cradle and tightened
> the cable.  We put rollers/pipes on the trailer bed and lowered the front of
> the cradle onto the rollers. We then released the dump truck parking brake
> and took it out of gear (engine off).  Then we slowly winched the trailer
> under the cradle.  The truck followed the trailer.  We added more rollers as
> more cradle was above the trailer bed.  Once the cradle weight was fully on
> the trailer, we rolled it to the proper load position and blocked and
> secured it with chain binders so it would not roll.
>
> You could do a similar move if you can secure your come-a-long to the rear
> of the truck and run the cable to the back of your machine.  You may have to
> rig something to keep the machine from tipping off the blocks if the truck
> is very heavy.  You'll also need enough overhead clearance to lift the
> machine and you may have to build a cradle/platform to support the machine.
>
> I think lifting straight up is easier and safer than trying to push/pry the
> machine up a ramp.
>
> Charlie
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253320 "james duprie" <j.duprie@c...> 2015‑01‑30 Re: Lifting heavy things
Open trailer isn't an option (not do I already have the trailer, but it is
going from NH to Tx, and I don't want to expose it to road grit, weather,
and other unpleasant things...

It still seems like lifting it and sliding it directly onto the bed would be
more effort and risk. Given that it is already on a pallet I WILL have to
lift it a few inches to get the rollers under it (lift one end, put a roller
under each skid rail, use the lever to slide it along until the rollers have
moved about 1/4 - 1/3 of the way towards the middle, add rollers under the
elevated end, walk a bit further until it tilts onto the new set of rollers
(6 under it now - 2 under each skid rail), then roll along adding rollers in
front as they fall out the back.

Lifting the extra distance to get to the truck bed involved a lot of adding
blocks, tilting, adding more blocks etc until it is the right height, then
sliding it into the truck (probably need rollers to move it forward to the
nose anyway). In order to keep it stable, I'd need a lot of good sized
blocking (or custom made supports), and still end up having to roll it to
the truck (about 80 feet). It just seems like the whole thing will be easier
of its done with rollers all the way...
(the object is about 65" wide by 50" long by about 48" tall)

Of course, I guess I could just rent a power pallet jack, but that wouldn't
be any fun....

-J


-----Original Message-----
From: C and MA Newbold [mailto:cgnewbold@c...]">mailto:cgnewbold@c...]
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2015 9:06 AM
To: james duprie; oldtools@s...
Subject: Re: [OldTools] Lifting heavy things

Have you considered using an open top utility trailer?

I also think you could do it in a box truck as the only inside access needed
would be to position rollers.  You could do that before the machine enters
the box and adjust them by pushing/pulling with poles to put them into place
if the machine is too big to walk around.
253322 C and MA Newbold <cgnewbold@c...> 2015‑01‑30 Re: Lifting heavy things
I'd agree with moving it in a covered box.

When we moved boats, we had access to multiple hydraulic jacks and 
blocks, so lifting was simple.  We used 6" diameter 10 ft long wooden 
rollers and a 6 cyl power winch, a couple deadmen, a snatch block, and 
an antique truck to push the boats.  The parts that caused us concern 
were going up a 6" incline to get the boats from the storage area onto 
the railroad car to launch the boat, and using the rollers to turn the 
rigs 90 degrees.  I'd have issues with trying to pry a 1500 pound 
machine up a ramp and I'd have to be sure the ramp could take the load.

Your experience and resources are obviously different, so you'll have to 
find a system that you find comfortable.

Have fun and be safe,
Charlie


On 1/30/2015 12:29 PM, james duprie wrote:
> Open trailer isn't an option (not do I already have the trailer, but it is
> going from NH to Tx, and I don't want to expose it to road grit, weather,
> and other unpleasant things...
>
> It still seems like lifting it and sliding it directly onto the bed would be
> more effort and risk. Given that it is already on a pallet I WILL have to
> lift it a few inches to get the rollers under it (lift one end, put a roller
> under each skid rail, use the lever to slide it along until the rollers have
> moved about 1/4 - 1/3 of the way towards the middle, add rollers under the
> elevated end, walk a bit further until it tilts onto the new set of rollers
> (6 under it now - 2 under each skid rail), then roll along adding rollers in
> front as they fall out the back.
>
> Lifting the extra distance to get to the truck bed involved a lot of adding
> blocks, tilting, adding more blocks etc until it is the right height, then
> sliding it into the truck (probably need rollers to move it forward to the
> nose anyway). In order to keep it stable, I'd need a lot of good sized
> blocking (or custom made supports), and still end up having to roll it to
> the truck (about 80 feet). It just seems like the whole thing will be easier
> of its done with rollers all the way...
> (the object is about 65" wide by 50" long by about 48" tall)
>
> Of course, I guess I could just rent a power pallet jack, but that wouldn't
> be any fun....
>
> -J
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: C and MA Newbold [mailto:cgnewbold@c...]">mailto:cgnewbold@c...]
> Sent: Friday, January 30, 2015 9:06 AM
> To: james duprie; oldtools@s...
> Subject: Re: [OldTools] Lifting heavy things
>
> Have you considered using an open top utility trailer?
>
> I also think you could do it in a box truck as the only inside access needed
> would be to position rollers.  You could do that before the machine enters
> the box and adjust them by pushing/pulling with poles to put them into place
> if the machine is too big to walk around.
>
>

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