OldTools Archive
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253228 | Christopher Swingley <cswingle@s...> | 2015‑01‑28 | Lifting heavy things |
GGs, Scott's mention of jacks and cranes and blocking earlier today reminded me of one of last summer's projects. It involves old tools and wood, but not of a sort we traditionally discuss in this forum. My house is built on telephone poles driven into the ground about ten feet from Goldstream Creek, which is a meandering creek just north and west of Fairbanks. Normally, the water is between eight and twelve feet below the banks, and it's about 40 feet from one bank to the other. We have a nice bridge across it, made from a pair of spruce logs laid across the Creek, with 2x6 planks nailed between the log supports. In June it rained. A lot. Since most of the ground around here is permanently frozen year round, it doesn't take much to saturate the active layer at the surface with water. July started off with a couple more inches of rain, and the Creek went over it's banks. About two feet over: http://youtu.be/PCjNAKWWBT4 Taking our bridge with it: http://youtu.be/_-kH3M7d0PY After the water came back down, the bridge was grounded around a couple bends, conveniently behind our back cabin. Here it is after I removed more than half of the planking: http://media.swingleydev.com/img/photolog/2014/07/disassembling_old_bri dge_2014-07.jpg">http://media.swingleydev.com/img/photolog/2014/07/disassembling _old_bridge_2014-07.jpg The guy that came out to help us lift up our log cabin to prevent future flooding damage mentioned that I should just lift the logs back up where they were, put new planks on it, and I'd have my bridge back. I've moved some heavy things (every push a Harley a mile down I-5 after running out of gas?), but nothing quite as heavy as a pair of 50 foot spruce logs, and certainly not in a situation like the banks of a creek. But it turned out not to be all that difficult. I built an A-frame from a pair of 8 foot 4x4 posts and a carriage bolt, got a pair of rope winches and a strong pulley. With the A-frame extended out over the bank and the rope from one winch tied to the end of the log, run through the pulley at the top of the A-frame, then through the winch anchored to a tree, and the rope from the other winch tied to the top of the A-frame to control it's angle over the Creek, I was able to winch the end of the log up to the level of the bank, then up an onto the bank. The trick is to keep the A-frame at an angle over the Creek, *and* the rope tied to the log out even farther, such that the "log -- A-frame -- anchor tree" angle was always greater than 90 degrees. If it's greater than 90 degrees, tightening the winch raises the end of the log, and pulls down on the A-frame. When the angle gets closer to 90, tightening the winch causes both the end of the log and the top of the A-frame to rise, and eventually the A-frame comes flying back at the winch, dropping the log back where it came from. It took me a few tries before I figured out the physics of how this works... Here's a shot of the first lift: http://media.swingleydev.com/img/photolog/2014/08/end_of_the_log_raised _to_the_bank_2014-08.jpg">http://media.swingleydev.com/img/photolog/2014/08/end_ of_the_log_raised_to_the_bank_2014-08.jpg and the second: http://media.swingleydev.com/img/photolog/2014/08/south_side_end_raisin g_2014-08.jpg">http://media.swingleydev.com/img/photolog/2014/08/south_side_end_ raising_2014-08.jpg and the last lift from below (in a canoe): http://media.swingleydev.com/img/photolog/2014/08/almost_there_2014-08. jpg">http://media.swingleydev.com/img/photolog/2014/08/almost_there_2014-08.jpg< /a> After a couple weekends of work, and nailing down a bunch of rough cut 2x6 planks, the bridge was completely restored in it's new location: http://media.swingleydev.com/img/photolog/2014/08/decking_is_almost_com plete_2014-08.jpg">http://media.swingleydev.com/img/photolog/2014/08/decking_is_ almost_complete_2014-08.jpg Every time I go back there, I'm amazed that I was able to do all that, by myself, with nothing but a couple winches, a pulley, some ropes and a simple A-frame. Physics is pretty cool. One advantage of using a rope winch is that it has a built-in safety: if you're putting more weight on the winch than it's designed for, the rope just slips. With a come-a-long, reaching the limits is liable to suddenly break something, which is a lot more dangerous. One aside: the guy that came to help us raise our back cabin used a pair of "railroad jacks", one on each end of the bottom logs of the cabin. If you ever see a pair of these gadgets at an auction or a yard sale or something, they're amazing. Here's what one looks like, lifting the corner of our cabin: http://media.swingleydev.com/img/photolog/2014/08/raising_the_back_cabi n_2014-08.jpg">http://media.swingleydev.com/img/photolog/2014/08/raising_the_bac k_cabin_2014-08.jpg Cheers, Chris -- Christopher Swingley Fairbanks, Alaska http://swingleydev.com/ cswingle@s... |
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253233 | Jim Cook <jim-cook@c...> | 2015‑01‑28 | Re: Lifting heavy things |
That’s really pretty cool Chris. Speaking only for myself as a single data point from a suburban area in the contiguous states, I’m really impressed by what you folks in Alaska are able to do, by simply doing it. It’s a little intimidating, but a lot inspirational. Thanks! Jim On Jan 27, 2015, at 10:47 PM, Christopher Swingley |
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253234 | JAMES THOMPSON <oldmillrat@m...> | 2015‑01‑28 | Re: Lifting heavy things |
On Jan 27, 2015, at 9:44 PM, Jim Cook |
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253235 | paul womack <pwomack@p...> | 2015‑01‑28 | Re: Lifting heavy things |
Christopher Swingley wrote: > > Every time I go back there, I'm amazed that I was able to do all that, > by myself, with nothing but a couple winches, a pulley, some ropes and > a simple A-frame. Physics is pretty cool. There was an excellent program on UK TV concerning the erection (not casting) of Abraham Darby's Iron Bridge. Short version - A frames and rope. Long version: http://www.hdowns.co.uk/ironbr idge4.htm (hell, it was back in 2001) BugBear |
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253237 | "SHINE, STEVE" <ss9729@a...> | 2015‑01‑28 | Re: Lifting heavy things |
[Chris saves his bridge with some serious inventiveness.] Well done, Chris! So, honestly, how many times did you fall in? :-) Steve, pondering work in Howell, NJ |
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253238 | Ed Minch <ruby@m...> | 2015‑01‑28 | Re: Lifting heavy things |
7, 2015, at 10:47 PM, Christopher Swingley |
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253239 | "james duprie" <j.duprie@c...> | 2015‑01‑28 | Re: Lifting heavy things |
In the a couple of years, I am going to have to figure out how to move a 1500 pound machine into a closed truck. There are no anchor points in the truck that can take the load, and it will be going up a ramp in order to get into the truck. Right now my concept is rollers (how I moved the machine last time - 2" thick dowels I turned out of firewood), some sort of choc/wedge anti back-roll, and a long lever bar. Walk it up the ramp in little steps using the lever bar between the ramp and the bottom of the skid - lift, chock, reset bar, continue. I've lifted large boulders uphill in a similar fashion, but they don't tend to roll back down the ramp.... -JD -----Original Message----- From: OldTools [mailto:oldtools- bounces@s...] On Behalf Of paul womack Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2015 4:13 AM To: Christopher Swingley; OldTools List Subject: Re: [OldTools] Lifting heavy things Christopher Swingley wrote: > > Every time I go back there, I'm amazed that I was able to do all that, > by myself, with nothing but a couple winches, a pulley, some ropes and > a simple A-frame. Physics is pretty cool. There was an excellent program on UK TV concerning the erection (not casting) of Abraham Darby's Iron Bridge. Short version - A frames and rope. Long version: http://www.hdowns.co.uk/ironbr idge4.htm (hell, it was back in 2001) BugBear |
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253243 | Dragon List <dragon01list@g...> | 2015‑01‑28 | Re: Lifting heavy things |
james, the movers here at the uni use 3/8" steel rod for their rollers. they moved a 2-ton safe (on flat ground, fortunately) on those. bill felton, ca On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 5:23 AM, james duprie |
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253244 | Christopher Swingley <cswingle@s...> | 2015‑01‑28 | Re: Lifting heavy things |
On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 8:22 AM, Dragon List |
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253246 | RH Hutchins <rhhutchins@h...> | 2015‑01‑28 | Re: Lifting heavy things |
On 1/28/2015 11:33 AM, Christopher Swingley wrote: > On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 8:22 AM, Dragon List |
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253247 | JAMES THOMPSON <oldmillrat@m...> | 2015‑01‑28 | Re: Lifting heavy things |
Consider the use of a snatch block. It enables you to pull in one direction while the load moves in another direction. More than one snatch block can be used to accomplish strange moves. And you can compound your pull too. On Jan 28, 2015, at 9:22 AM, Dragon List |
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253250 | Christopher Swingley <cswingle@s...> | 2015‑01‑28 | Re: Lifting heavy things |
Bob, On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 8:47 AM, RH Hutchins |
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253306 | C and MA Newbold <cgnewbold@c...> | 2015‑01‑30 | Re: Lifting heavy things |
On 1/28/2015 8:23 AM, james duprie wrote: > In the a couple of years, I am going to have to figure out how to move a > 1500 pound machine into a closed truck. There are no anchor points in the > truck that can take the load, and it will be going up a ramp in order to get > into the truck. > Short answer: block it up and winch the truck under the machine. Details: In a previous life, my father and I used to move 27-40 ft boats on cradles by using jacks, wooden rollers and a come along or a power winch. The 27ft boat was on a wooden cradle on grass alongside our garage. We had to load it onto a trailer and haul it 75 miles to launch it. That was our first big boat move. We wound up moving several different boats up 40 ft long at the DIY boat yard where we stored the boat for the winter. We jacked and blocked the cradle up until it was higher than the trailer bed and backed the trailer under the front of the cradle. Then we hooked a come-a-long between the trailer and the far end of the cradle and tightened the cable. We put rollers/pipes on the trailer bed and lowered the front of the cradle onto the rollers. We then released the dump truck parking brake and took it out of gear (engine off). Then we slowly winched the trailer under the cradle. The truck followed the trailer. We added more rollers as more cradle was above the trailer bed. Once the cradle weight was fully on the trailer, we rolled it to the proper load position and blocked and secured it with chain binders so it would not roll. You could do a similar move if you can secure your come-a-long to the rear of the truck and run the cable to the back of your machine. You may have to rig something to keep the machine from tipping off the blocks if the truck is very heavy. You'll also need enough overhead clearance to lift the machine and you may have to build a cradle/platform to support the machine. I think lifting straight up is easier and safer than trying to push/pry the machine up a ramp. Charlie |
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253312 | "james duprie" <j.duprie@c...> | 2015‑01‑30 | Re: Lifting heavy things |
That would work on an open bed truck, but not a box truck - the walls get in the way :)... -j -----Original Message----- From: OldTools [mailto:oldtools- bounces@s...] On Behalf Of C and MA Newbold Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2015 9:35 PM To: oldtools@s... Subject: Re: [OldTools] Lifting heavy things On 1/28/2015 8:23 AM, james duprie wrote: > In the a couple of years, I am going to have to figure out how to move > a > 1500 pound machine into a closed truck. There are no anchor points in > the truck that can take the load, and it will be going up a ramp in > order to get into the truck. > Short answer: block it up and winch the truck under the machine. Details: In a previous life, my father and I used to move 27-40 ft boats on cradles by using jacks, wooden rollers and a come along or a power winch. The 27ft boat was on a wooden cradle on grass alongside our garage. We had to load it onto a trailer and haul it 75 miles to launch it. That was our first big boat move. We wound up moving several different boats up 40 ft long at the DIY boat yard where we stored the boat for the winter. We jacked and blocked the cradle up until it was higher than the trailer bed and backed the trailer under the front of the cradle. Then we hooked a come-a-long between the trailer and the far end of the cradle and tightened the cable. We put rollers/pipes on the trailer bed and lowered the front of the cradle onto the rollers. We then released the dump truck parking brake and took it out of gear (engine off). Then we slowly winched the trailer under the cradle. The truck followed the trailer. We added more rollers as more cradle was above the trailer bed. Once the cradle weight was fully on the trailer, we rolled it to the proper load position and blocked and secured it with chain binders so it would not roll. You could do a similar move if you can secure your come-a-long to the rear of the truck and run the cable to the back of your machine. You may have to rig something to keep the machine from tipping off the blocks if the truck is very heavy. You'll also need enough overhead clearance to lift the machine and you may have to build a cradle/platform to support the machine. I think lifting straight up is easier and safer than trying to push/pry the machine up a ramp. Charlie |
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253315 | C and MA Newbold <cgnewbold@c...> | 2015‑01‑30 | Re: Lifting heavy things |
Have you considered using an open top utility trailer? I also think you could do it in a box truck as the only inside access needed would be to position rollers. You could do that before the machine enters the box and adjust them by pushing/pulling with poles to put them into place if the machine is too big to walk around. Charlie On 1/30/2015 8:05 AM, james duprie wrote: > That would work on an open bed truck, but not a box truck - the walls get in > the way :)... > -j > > -----Original Message----- > From: OldTools [mailto:oldtools- bounces@s...] On Behalf Of C and > MA Newbold > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2015 9:35 PM > To: oldtools@s... > Subject: Re: [OldTools] Lifting heavy things > > > On 1/28/2015 8:23 AM, james duprie wrote: >> In the a couple of years, I am going to have to figure out how to move >> a >> 1500 pound machine into a closed truck. There are no anchor points in >> the truck that can take the load, and it will be going up a ramp in >> order to get into the truck. >> > Short answer: block it up and winch the truck under the machine. > > Details: In a previous life, my father and I used to move 27-40 ft boats on > cradles by using jacks, wooden rollers and a come along or a power winch. > The 27ft boat was on a wooden cradle on grass alongside our garage. We had > to load it onto a trailer and haul it 75 miles to > launch it. That was our first big boat move. We wound up moving > several different boats up 40 ft long at the DIY boat yard where we stored > the boat for the winter. > > We jacked and blocked the cradle up until it was higher than the trailer bed > and backed the trailer under the front of the cradle. Then we hooked a > come-a-long between the trailer and the far end of the cradle and tightened > the cable. We put rollers/pipes on the trailer bed and lowered the front of > the cradle onto the rollers. We then released the dump truck parking brake > and took it out of gear (engine off). Then we slowly winched the trailer > under the cradle. The truck followed the trailer. We added more rollers as > more cradle was above the trailer bed. Once the cradle weight was fully on > the trailer, we rolled it to the proper load position and blocked and > secured it with chain binders so it would not roll. > > You could do a similar move if you can secure your come-a-long to the rear > of the truck and run the cable to the back of your machine. You may have to > rig something to keep the machine from tipping off the blocks if the truck > is very heavy. You'll also need enough overhead clearance to lift the > machine and you may have to build a cradle/platform to support the machine. > > I think lifting straight up is easier and safer than trying to push/pry the > machine up a ramp. > > Charlie > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To change your subscription options: > http://old tools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > To read the FAQ: > http://swingleydev.com/archi ve/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/ot/">http://swingleydev.com/ot/ > > OldTools@s... > http://old tools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > |
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253320 | "james duprie" <j.duprie@c...> | 2015‑01‑30 | Re: Lifting heavy things |
Open trailer isn't an option (not do I already have the trailer, but it is going from NH to Tx, and I don't want to expose it to road grit, weather, and other unpleasant things... It still seems like lifting it and sliding it directly onto the bed would be more effort and risk. Given that it is already on a pallet I WILL have to lift it a few inches to get the rollers under it (lift one end, put a roller under each skid rail, use the lever to slide it along until the rollers have moved about 1/4 - 1/3 of the way towards the middle, add rollers under the elevated end, walk a bit further until it tilts onto the new set of rollers (6 under it now - 2 under each skid rail), then roll along adding rollers in front as they fall out the back. Lifting the extra distance to get to the truck bed involved a lot of adding blocks, tilting, adding more blocks etc until it is the right height, then sliding it into the truck (probably need rollers to move it forward to the nose anyway). In order to keep it stable, I'd need a lot of good sized blocking (or custom made supports), and still end up having to roll it to the truck (about 80 feet). It just seems like the whole thing will be easier of its done with rollers all the way... (the object is about 65" wide by 50" long by about 48" tall) Of course, I guess I could just rent a power pallet jack, but that wouldn't be any fun.... -J -----Original Message----- From: C and MA Newbold [mailto:cgnewbold@c...]">mailto:cgnewbold@c...] Sent: Friday, January 30, 2015 9:06 AM To: james duprie; oldtools@s... Subject: Re: [OldTools] Lifting heavy things Have you considered using an open top utility trailer? I also think you could do it in a box truck as the only inside access needed would be to position rollers. You could do that before the machine enters the box and adjust them by pushing/pulling with poles to put them into place if the machine is too big to walk around. |
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253322 | C and MA Newbold <cgnewbold@c...> | 2015‑01‑30 | Re: Lifting heavy things |
I'd agree with moving it in a covered box. When we moved boats, we had access to multiple hydraulic jacks and blocks, so lifting was simple. We used 6" diameter 10 ft long wooden rollers and a 6 cyl power winch, a couple deadmen, a snatch block, and an antique truck to push the boats. The parts that caused us concern were going up a 6" incline to get the boats from the storage area onto the railroad car to launch the boat, and using the rollers to turn the rigs 90 degrees. I'd have issues with trying to pry a 1500 pound machine up a ramp and I'd have to be sure the ramp could take the load. Your experience and resources are obviously different, so you'll have to find a system that you find comfortable. Have fun and be safe, Charlie On 1/30/2015 12:29 PM, james duprie wrote: > Open trailer isn't an option (not do I already have the trailer, but it is > going from NH to Tx, and I don't want to expose it to road grit, weather, > and other unpleasant things... > > It still seems like lifting it and sliding it directly onto the bed would be > more effort and risk. Given that it is already on a pallet I WILL have to > lift it a few inches to get the rollers under it (lift one end, put a roller > under each skid rail, use the lever to slide it along until the rollers have > moved about 1/4 - 1/3 of the way towards the middle, add rollers under the > elevated end, walk a bit further until it tilts onto the new set of rollers > (6 under it now - 2 under each skid rail), then roll along adding rollers in > front as they fall out the back. > > Lifting the extra distance to get to the truck bed involved a lot of adding > blocks, tilting, adding more blocks etc until it is the right height, then > sliding it into the truck (probably need rollers to move it forward to the > nose anyway). In order to keep it stable, I'd need a lot of good sized > blocking (or custom made supports), and still end up having to roll it to > the truck (about 80 feet). It just seems like the whole thing will be easier > of its done with rollers all the way... > (the object is about 65" wide by 50" long by about 48" tall) > > Of course, I guess I could just rent a power pallet jack, but that wouldn't > be any fun.... > > -J > > > -----Original Message----- > From: C and MA Newbold [mailto:cgnewbold@c...]">mailto:cgnewbold@c...] > Sent: Friday, January 30, 2015 9:06 AM > To: james duprie; oldtools@s... > Subject: Re: [OldTools] Lifting heavy things > > Have you considered using an open top utility trailer? > > I also think you could do it in a box truck as the only inside access needed > would be to position rollers. You could do that before the machine enters > the box and adjust them by pushing/pulling with poles to put them into place > if the machine is too big to walk around. > > |
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