OldTools Archive

Recent Bios FAQ

251437 JAMES THOMPSON <oldmillrat@m...> 2014‑10‑28 Tool finds
When I sent the pictures this morning I meant to ask what anyone knew about yjhe
#4 size smoother. It is marked No. 4, and made in USA, but no maker's mark. The
cap iron has 4 square indentations which are painted red. Who made that? I
managed to clean up some of the tools yesterday. The plumb bobs had turned
black, but are now bright.

In another picture there is a mess of long auger bits measuring 18" in lemngth.
The strange part, to me at least, is that all of them are either 11 or 13. There
must be a reason why we find so many of these, and so few of other sizes. There
was also one 3/4" auger bit which is a full 24" long. I don't see many of those.

There were 3 different sizes of adjustable wrenches, all good american brands.
There were two brass plumb bobs, one 12 ounces, the other 24 ounces. Both are
excellent, and the smaller one is marked K&E. The larger is unmarked, but is
obviously an excellent tool. There is a pile of blades for different planes, one
a heavy laminated blade. There is a 130A, there are 3 nice block planes, there
is a Starrett marking gauge, and a Starrett 12" cast iron level, which is VERY
nice. AND there are 2 bronze shaves, one of which appears to be for planing the
sides of sliding dovetails, and the other bronze shave appears to want to slide
in a groove with a flat bottom. Then there is the orange painted vise grip. I
have no clue why it is orange. Oh, and the long auger bits came in a PLUMB tool
box which will clean up to be useable. Not a bad haul for
FREE!!!------------------------------------------------------------------------
251438 Dragon List <dragon01list@g...> 2014‑10‑28 Re: Tool finds
isn't that the stanley "4-square" line?  their "student" line, from the
middle of the last century, iirc.

best,
bill
felton, ca

On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 4:04 PM, JAMES THOMPSON  wrote:

> When I sent the pictures this morning I meant to ask what anyone knew
> about yjhe #4 size smoother. It is marked No. 4, and made in USA, but no
> maker's mark. The cap iron has 4 square indentations which are painted red.
> Who made that? I managed to clean up some of the tools yesterday. The plumb
> bobs had turned black, but are now bright.
>
> In another picture there is a mess of long auger bits measuring 18" in
> lemngth. The strange part, to me at least, is that all of them are either
> 11 or 13. There must be a reason why we find so many of these, and so few
> of other sizes. There was also one 3/4" auger bit which is a full 24" long.
> I don't see many of those.
>
> There were 3 different sizes of adjustable wrenches, all good american
> brands. There were two brass plumb bobs, one 12 ounces, the other 24
> ounces. Both are excellent, and the smaller one is marked K&E. The larger
> is unmarked, but is obviously an excellent tool. There is a pile of blades
> for different planes, one a heavy laminated blade. There is a 130A, there
> are 3 nice block planes, there is a Starrett marking gauge, and a Starrett
> 12" cast iron level, which is VERY nice. AND there are 2 bronze shaves, one
> of which appears to be for planing the sides of sliding dovetails, and the
> other bronze shave appears to want to slide in a groove with a flat bottom.
> Then there is the orange painted vise grip. I have no clue why it is
> orange. Oh, and the long auger bits came in a PLUMB tool box which will
> clean up to be useable. Not a bad haul for
>
FREE!!!------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> http://rucku
s.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archi
ve/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/">http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>
> OldTools@r...
> http://rucku
s.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
251440 David Nighswander <wishingstarfarm663@m...> 2014‑10‑28 Re: Tool finds
Snip
From: James Thompson
In another picture there is a mess of long auger bits measuring 18" in lemngth.
The strange part, to me at least, is that all of them are either 11 or 13. There
must be a reason why we find so many of these, and so few of other sizes. There
was also one 3/4" auger bit which is a full 24" long. I don't see many of those.
Unsnip

Dad was an Electrical Contractor. Dad always had a lot of 5/8 spade bits. We
used that size because it was small enough to bore through native oak beams with
a 3/8 drill and would pass two pieces of #12 romex.
When I emptied his shop I found four or five 1 1/4” spade bits in various states
of decay. He had been making bird houses but that seems a little big for
entrance holes.
I had already cleaned him out of auger bits. When he found spade bits made from
good steel he stopped using augers.
251441 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2014‑10‑28 Re: Tool finds
On 10/28/2014 5:04 PM, JAMES THOMPSON wrote:
> When I sent the pictures this morning I meant to ask what anyone knew about
yjhe #4 size smoother. It is marked No. 4, and made in USA, but no maker's mark.
The cap iron has 4 square indentations which are painted red. Who made that? I
managed to clean up some of the tools yesterday. The plumb bobs had turned
black, but are now bright.
>
> In another picture there is a mess of long auger bits measuring 18" in
lemngth. The strange part, to me at least, is that all of them are either 11 or
13. There must be a reason why we find so many of these, and so few of other
sizes. There was also one 3/4" auger bit which is a full 24" long. I don't see
many of those.
I believe Foursquare was Stanley's early "homeowner tools" line. Can't 
recall where I read that first but here's one source... Scroll down to 
Rick Whitehead's reply.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?109663-Having-trouble-
dating-stanley-plane">http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?109663-Having-
trouble-dating-stanley-plane

As for the bits, I have no idea why... But it will give you something to 
contemplate next time you're sitting in the dentist's waiting room....

Don
251442 Ed Minch <ruby@m...> 2014‑10‑29 Re: Tool finds
Jim

As has been said, yours is a Stanley “four square” smooth plane.  They made a
whole homeowner line from 1923 - 1930, everything from planes, to crowbars, to
file handles, to hatchets, to wooden folding rules. These appear to be the same
tools as their regular line with no scrimping on the quality of the steel or
castings, but the planes had a cheaper lever cap and some had “hardwood” handles
instead of rosewood.  Some of those early ones are worth some denari.

Later in the 50’s they re-introduced the line along with their Victor and
Defiance lines.  These were quite a bit cheaper and this appears to be what you
have.  I don’t know the value of these.

Here are 2 items from the 20’s:

https://www.flickr
.com/photos/ruby1638/15468143699/


Ed Minch




On Oct 28, 2014, at 7:04 PM, JAMES THOMPSON  wrote:

> The cap iron has 4 square indentations which are painted red. Who made that?
251443 John Ruth <johnrruth@h...> 2014‑10‑29 RE: Tool finds
Jim,
 
The long 11 and 13 bits are used to bore for 3/4 and 7/8 "drifts" in a shipyard.
They are the metallic equivalent of wooden treenails (pronounced "trunnels")
 
Drifts are metal rods used to edge-join major timbers of a wooden ship, such as
when a keel must be built up of many smaller timbers.  A pilot hole is bored and
then the steel drift is sledgehammered in. The drift can be either bronze (old
ships), wrought iron, or steel.
 
I'd be willing to bet that Ed Minch knows all about this.
 
When you see a decaying wooden shipwreck either underwater or on land, the
drifts are often sticking up like spikes, a danger to the unwary.
 
John Ruth 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
251444 Bill Ghio <bghio@m...> 2014‑10‑29 Re: Tool finds
Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 28, 2014, at 9:08 PM, John Ruth  wrote:
> 
> Jim,
> 
> The long 11 and 13 bits are used to bore for 3/4 and 7/8 "drifts" in a
shipyard. They are the metallic equivalent of wooden treenails (pronounced
"trunnels")
> 
> Drifts are metal rods used to edge-join major timbers of a wooden ship, such
as when a keel must be built up of many smaller timbers.  A pilot hole is bored
and then the steel drift is sledgehammered in. The drift can be either bronze
(old ships), wrought iron, or steel.

And drilling straight when you can't drill in from both sides is a lesson in
"slow & careful".

Bill, who did this once piecing together a
rudder.------------------------------------------------------------------------
251445 scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> 2014‑10‑29 Re: Tool finds
That's a pretty rockin' Plomb 1/2" socket toolbox.
  Unless its in worse shape where I can't see it.

  If you look close I believe you will see it says Plomb and not Plumb.
  I believe this is a post lawsuit box.

      Wherein Mr Plumb of Los Angeles, was enjoined from using his own 
name on his tools,
  by a certain Mr Plumb of legendary back east ax fame, for several 
generations already.

   Everything was hunky dory until Mr Plumb of Los Angeles started 
offering axes and hammers, in addition to his fine line of ratchets and 
sockets.  Mr Plumb of famous ax antiquity didn't care for that.
   Mr Plumb of Los Angeles had no chance in court.

  Thereby creating the Plomb brand.
   And later the Proto brand.
       yours Scott

-- 
*******************************
    Scott Grandstaff
    Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
    scottg@s...
    http://www.snowcrest.n
et/kitty/sgrandstaff/
    http://www.snowcr
est.net/kitty/hpages/index.html



-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.5315 / Virus Database: 4189/8472 - Release Date: 10/28/14
251447 John Ruth <johnrruth@h...> 2014‑10‑29 RE: Tool finds
GG's
 
I've been re-thinking what I wrote about these long #11 and #13 auger bits
possibly being used in a shipyard.  I have a large collection of long auger bits
whose provenance is unquestionably from the tools of a early 20th century
shipwright.  Almost all of these are "blind-footed" helical augers.  They have
no pilot screw. They have only one cutting edge.  Another significant difference
is that Jim's long bits are Irwin pattern, quite a contrast to the plain helix
of the shipyard bits in my collection. I'm not so sure that I'd want a pilot
screw on a really deep drilling effort.  It might tend to make the hole go
astray. On a different note, I want to second Scott's comment on the
gloatability of the embossed Plomb socket wrench box.  De-rusting and repainting
that box would be quite an effort, but it would look so cool in a fresh coat of
olive paint.  John Ruth

------------------------------------------------------------------------
251448 Ed Minch <ruby@m...> 2014‑10‑29 Re: Tool finds
John

I just saw your first post and I agree.  For deep holes that have to end up
where you want them, you need a “barefoot” auger.  You would start the holes
with a traditional auger with a lead screw to get the hole started where you
want it, then when you are in a few inches, switch to the barefoot auger, then
it will follow the original hole.  The longest I have done is 14” and it came
out within about 1/8”, but a friend of mine did this:

He had to drill 4 anchor hawse holes - angled holes that the anchor line passes
through on its way from near the waterline at the bow to up on deck.  This was 2
each on the 2 identical ships Irving Johnson and Exy Johnson

http://www.lamitopsail.o
rg/mylink.php?id=5760

Here are the two boats (identical except for the blue/red trim) and you can see
the anchor hawse holes:

https://www.fli
ckr.com/photos/ronkacmarcik/6579532805/

These holes were almost 4 feet long through solid wood.  My friend rigged up a
jig that drilled a 3/4” hole down from the deck as a pilot and these were all
within 3/8” of where they were supposed to be (so he claimed).  He then used a
larger bit with a pilot rod that fit the 3/4” hole to make it bigger, then did
that again and after 4 drillings he had a 6” hole - 4 holes!

And when I was on the Johnson search I found this picture of my friend Jim
Knowles who is a carver who has done much of the carving on recent American
ships and even one from Poland:

http://jamesaknowles.net
/JohnsonCarvings.html

He is working on a project on the Kalmar Nyckel right now and I am one of his
assistants.  Look at his page on “sculpture” - he really has the 18th-19th
century feel about his work.  I sat with him in a bar one night and he was going
to carve the face of the captain.  He had a lump of clay about the size of a
baseball.  He held a fine conversation while he poked and twisted the lump, and
in about 15 minutes he had the captain!  On his site you can see a good shot of
the Johnson hawse holes.  I so appreciate what he does.

Ed Minch




On Oct 29, 2014, at 2:40 PM, John Ruth  wrote:

> GG's
>  
> I've been re-thinking what I wrote about these long #11 and #13 auger bits
possibly being used in a shipyard.
>  
> I have a large collection of long auger bits whose provenance is
unquestionably from the tools of a early 20th century shipwright.  Almost all of
these are "blind-footed" helical augers.  They have no pilot screw. They have
only one cutting edge.
>  
> Another significant difference is that Jim's long bits are Irwin pattern,
quite a contrast to the plain helix of the shipyard bits in my collection.
>  
> I'm not so sure that I'd want a pilot screw on a really deep drilling effort.
It might tend to make the hole go astray.
>  
> On a different note, I want to second Scott's comment on the gloatability of
the embossed Plomb socket wrench box.  De-rusting and repainting that box would
be quite an effort, but it would look so cool in a fresh coat of olive paint.
>  
> John Ruth
251450 JAMES THOMPSON <oldmillrat@m...> 2014‑10‑29 Re: Tool finds
Great minds think alike. That was the first thing I thought of when I got the
box.

> On Oct 29, 2014, at 11:40 AM, John Ruth  wrote:
> 
> GG's
>  
> I've been re-thinking what I wrote about these long #11 and #13 auger bits
possibly being used in a shipyard.
>  
> I have a large collection of long auger bits whose provenance is
unquestionably from the tools of a early 20th century shipwright.  Almost all of
these are "blind-footed" helical augers.  They have no pilot screw. They have
only one cutting edge.
>  
> Another significant difference is that Jim's long bits are Irwin pattern,
quite a contrast to the plain helix of the shipyard bits in my collection.
>  
> I'm not so sure that I'd want a pilot screw on a really deep drilling effort.
It might tend to make the hole go astray.
>  
> On a different note, I want to second Scott's comment on the gloatability of
the embossed Plomb socket wrench box.  De-rusting and repainting that box would
be quite an effort, but it would look so cool in a fresh coat of olive paint.
>  
> John Ruth
251531 Kirk Eppler <eppler.kirk@g...> 2014‑11‑02 Re: Hays Improved Practical Mechanics Rule
On Sunday, November 2, 2014, Bill Webber  wrote:

>
> http://billwebber.g
alootcentral.com/side%203.JPG
> http://billwebber.g
alootcentral.com/side%203.JPG
>
> At first glance I thought the scale on the inside (Side 3 and 4 above) was
> a metric scale, but obviously it is not.  This inside scale is linear and
> contains 112 divisions in 35 1/2 inches.


 112/35.5 = 3.14.....


Thus I suspect something for deciphering circumference based on diameter.

Kirk in HMB, CA, who really should be doing yard work, or garage cleanup,
or something more productive than attempting a nap


-- 
Sent from my iPad, apologies for the Auto Correct errors.
Kirk
251538 Bill Webber <ol2lrus@v...> 2014‑11‑03 Re: Hays Improved Practical Mechanics Rule
Many thanks, Bill, that is certainly a part of the answer. Sector rule 
it is!

Bill W.
Nottingham, PA

On 11/2/2014 11:16 AM, William Ghio wrote:
> On Nov 2, 2014, at 11:03 AM, Bill Webber  wrote:
>
>> Gentle Galoots and Rule Users,
>>
>> I have a very nice new-to-me rule that has scales I don't recognize and no
manufacturers name.  Any information would be greatly appreciated.  It is a
nicely made four fold rule, 36-inches overall.   These pics show the four faces:
>>
>> http://billwebber.
galootcentral.com/side%201.JPG
>> http://billwebber.
galootcentral.com/side%202.JPG
>> http://billwebber.
galootcentral.com/side%203.JPG
>> http://billwebber.
galootcentral.com/side%203.JPG
>>
>> At first glance I thought the scale on the inside (Side 3 and 4 above) was a
metric scale, but obviously it is not.  This inside scale is linear and contains
112 divisions in 35 1/2 inches.
>> The rule is marked "Hays Improved Practical Mechanics Rule'. Other linear
scales show on side 1, but printed at an angle.  Side 2 has architects scales
for 1/4 and 1/2.
>>
>> Additional details here;
>> http://billwebbe
r.galootcentral.com/detail%201.JPG
>> http://billwebbe
r.galootcentral.com/detail%202.JPG
>> http://billwebbe
r.galootcentral.com/detail%203.JPG
>> http://billwebbe
r.galootcentral.com/detail%204.JPG
>> http://billwebbe
r.galootcentral.com/detail%205.JPG
>>
>> Could this be a logo of some sort?
>> http://billwebber.galo
otcentral.com/logo.JPG
>>
>> If I can't get information on how to use it, I'll probably have to give it
away.  If I leave it laying around shop someone might pick it up and ask me how
to use it...
> Could it be a form of sector rule?
>
> See htt
p://web.mat.bham.ac.uk/C.J.Sangwin/Sliderules/sector.html
>
> Bill
>
>
>
251539 Bill Webber <ol2lrus@v...> 2014‑11‑03 Re: Hays Improved Practical Mechanics Rule
Geez, who thinks like that!  Wow, many thanks...

Bill W.
Nottingham, PA

On 11/2/2014 12:38 PM, Kirk Eppler wrote:
>
> On Sunday, November 2, 2014, Bill Webber  <mailto:ol2lrus@v...>> wrote:
>
>
>     http://billwebb
er.galootcentral.com/side%203.JPG
>     http://billwebb
er.galootcentral.com/side%203.JPG
>
>     At first glance I thought the scale on the inside (Side 3 and 4
>     above) was a metric scale, but obviously it is not.  This inside
>     scale is linear and contains 112 divisions in 35 1/2 inches.
>
>
> 112/35.5 = 3.14.....
>
>
> Thus I suspect something for deciphering circumference based on diameter.
>
> Kirk in HMB, CA, who really should be doing yard work, or garage 
> cleanup, or something more productive than attempting a nap
>
>
> -- 
> Sent from my iPad, apologies for the Auto Correct errors.
> Kirk
252259 Gary Roberts <toolemera@m...> 2014‑12‑13 Re: Hays Improved Practical Mechanics Rule
That’s what’s great about Oldtools. There is usually someone who can decipher
whatever it is that needs deciphering.

Gary
...............................
Gary Roberts
http://toolemera.com
http://toolemerabooks.com

"I'ld rather read a good book, than write a poor one." Christopher Morley




> On Nov 2, 2014, at 8:29 PM, Bill Webber  wrote:
> 
> Geez, who thinks like that!  Wow, many thanks...
> 
> Bill W.
> Nottingham, PA
> 
> On 11/2/2014 12:38 PM, Kirk Eppler wrote:
>> 
>> On Sunday, November 2, 2014, Bill Webber mailto:ol2lrus@v...">mailto:ol2lrus@v...>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>    http://billwebb
er.galootcentral.com/side%203.JPG
>>    http://billwebb
er.galootcentral.com/side%203.JPG
>> 
>>    At first glance I thought the scale on the inside (Side 3 and 4
>>    above) was a metric scale, but obviously it is not.  This inside
>>    scale is linear and contains 112 divisions in 35 1/2 inches.
>> 
>> 
>> 112/35.5 = 3.14.....
>> 
>> 
>> Thus I suspect something for deciphering circumference based on diameter.
>> 
>> Kirk in HMB, CA, who really should be doing yard work, or garage cleanup, or
something more productive than attempting a nap
252262 Michael Blair <branson2@s...> 2014‑12‑13 Re: Hays Improved Practical Mechanics Rule
> 112/35.5 = 3.14.....
> Thus I suspect something for deciphering circumference based on 
> diameter.

I picked up what I thought was a typical blacksmith's 2 foot folding 
rule
a few years ago but on closer examination it had a line of measurements 
for
calculating circles, pretty much what you describe (couldn't open the 
photo).
It turned out to be a tinsmith's rule.  Perhaps your rule is for 
tinsmithing.

Mike in Sacto

Recent Bios FAQ