OldTools Archive

Recent Bios FAQ

251255 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2014‑10‑20 Re: triangular scraper burnisher was Help identify this tool
On 10/19/2014 9:56 AM, James Thompson wrote:
> ... I still do not see how a burnisher needs to have a sharp edge. I think we
all have at least one burnisher, and i have serious doubts that any of them are
sharp.  But I am open to persuasion.
>
> Anybody using a sharp edged burnisher? My finest one has fine edges, but those
edges are smooth, not sharp. I don't see how a sharp edge could remain sharp
when used to burnish steel. Seems to me that the sharp edge would roll over, or
break.


Here is a link to Diefenbacher Tools' site. They offer three types of 
burnishers for scrapers - round, oval and (yes) triangular - and give 
some insight into their use.

http://www.diefenbacher.com/accessor.htm#Scraper%20with%20prepared%20ed
ges">http://www.diefenbacher.com/accessor.htm#Scraper%20with%20prepared%20edges<
/a>

You read it there first.


I did manage to find the 3-corner blank file I picked up from LV - 2 of 
them, actually. They were shaped and roughly belt-sanded lengthwise to 
sharp-ish corners, but are not usable as either a scraper or burnisher 
as is, so I'm unable to report on testing as burnisher just yet. Made by 
Blu-Dan of Austria, a maker primarily of files and rasps it seems.  
Here's a link to their site:

http://www.blu-
dan.com/abertura.html

Blu Dan is a name I haven't noticed before this. Does anyone have 
experience with the quality of their products?

Don
251258 paul womack <pwomack@p...> 2014‑10‑20 Re: triangular scraper burnisher was Help identify this tool
Don Schwartz wrote:
>
> On 10/19/2014 9:56 AM, James Thompson wrote:
>> ... I still do not see how a burnisher needs to have a sharp edge. I think we
all have at least one burnisher, and i have serious doubts that any of them are
sharp.  But I am open to persuasion.
>>
>> Anybody using a sharp edged burnisher? My finest one has fine edges, but
those edges are smooth, not sharp. I don't see how a sharp edge could remain
sharp when used to burnish steel. Seems to me that the sharp edge would roll
over, or break.
>
>
> Here is a link to Diefenbacher Tools' site. They offer three types of
burnishers for scrapers - round, oval and (yes) triangular - and give some
insight into their use.
>
> http://www.diefenbacher.com/accessor.htm#Scraper%20with%20prepared%20
edges">http://www.diefenbacher.com/accessor.htm#Scraper%20with%20prepared%20edge
s

Given that the most typical error in scraper prep is excess pressure when
turning
the burr, using a larger burnisher area will automatically decrease the
pressure.

  BugBear
251262 paul womack <pwomack@p...> 2014‑10‑20 Re: triangular scraper burnisher was Help identify this tool
James Thompson wrote:
> I may be the only person on the planet who doesn't understand this. I put a
lot of effort into sharpening my scrapers, and I use my scrapers a lot. I have
always been impressed when I see someone pulling up lovely curls. I have never
been able to do that, no matter how much effort I put into edge preparation. I
get powder, not curls, well maybe a little curl. I have never been able to use
my scrapers in the almost-straight-up position. I have to lean my scrapers
forward 15 or 20 degrees. The results from this seem satisfactory. It has not
mattered how little or how much pressure I put on my burnisher, or what angle I
use. I suppose there is an optimum pressure, and angle, but I haven't found it.
I have a chunk of 1 1/2" thick steel with a square side that I use to hold the
burnisher square to the scarysharp paper while sharpening. The problem has to be
with burnishing.
>
> I have made burnishers in diameters from 1/8" to 1/2", and I have an oval
burnisher I got from Lee Valley. I have never tried a flat burnisher. I'll try
that soon.
>
> But this Hirsch tool does not have a shiny flat surface that I think is
required for a burnisher. I have been working on polishing the flats, but the
original grind was pretty coarse, and it is quite a chore removing all the
scratches. That said, polishing the flats leaves very sharp edges, which do not
seem to part of the equation for a scraper burnisher. Obviously when I use the
tool as a burnisher the edges will degrade, but I don't see them as useful
anyway. They might even dig in.
>
> So, Galoots.... How do I get the scraper nirvana I see everybody else getting?
I must not be holding my mouth right.

http://swingleydev.com/archive/get.php?message_id=153998&submit_thread=
1">http://swingleydev.com/archive/get.php?message_id=153998&submit_thread=1

  BugBear
251686 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2014‑11‑16 Re: triangular scraper burnisher was Help identify this tool
On 10/20/2014 7:51 AM, paul womack wrote:
> James Thompson wrote:
>> I may be the only person on the planet who doesn't understand this. I 
>> put a lot of effort into sharpening my scrapers, and I use my 
>> scrapers a lot. I have always been impressed when I see someone 
>> pulling up lovely curls. I have never been able to do that, no matter 
>> how much effort I put into edge preparation. I get powder, not curls, 
>> well maybe a little curl. I have never been able to use my scrapers 
>> in the almost-straight-up position. I have to lean my scrapers 
>> forward 15 or 20 degrees. The results from this seem satisfactory. It 
>> has not mattered how little or how much pressure I put on my 
>> burnisher, or what angle I use. I suppose there is an optimum 
>> pressure, and angle, but I haven't found it. I have a chunk of 1 1/2" 
>> thick steel with a square side that I use to hold the burnisher 
>> square to the scarysharp paper while sharpening. The problem has to 
>> be with burnishing.
>>
>> I have made burnishers in diameters from 1/8" to 1/2", and I have an 
>> oval burnisher I got from Lee Valley. I have never tried a flat 
>> burnisher. I'll try that soon.
>>
>> But this Hirsch tool does not have a shiny flat surface that I think 
>> is required for a burnisher. I have been working on polishing the 
>> flats, but the original grind was pretty coarse, and it is quite a 
>> chore removing all the scratches. That said, polishing the flats 
>> leaves very sharp edges, which do not seem to part of the equation 
>> for a scraper burnisher. Obviously when I use the tool as a burnisher 
>> the edges will degrade, but I don't see them as useful anyway. They 
>> might even dig in.
>>
>> So, Galoots.... How do I get the scraper nirvana I see everybody else 
>> getting? I must not be holding my mouth right.
>
> http://swingleydev.com/archive/get.php?message_id=153998&submit_threa
d=1">http://swingleydev.com/archive/get.php?message_id=153998&submit_thread=1
>
>  BugBear
>
I should apologize for coming back to this long after everyone else lost 
interest. But I was still interested - and busy...

So I cleaned up 2 adjacent sides of one of my triangular 'file blanks' 
using coarse Alox paper on glass to remove the factory grind marks and a 
diamond stone 325x. Then I put randomly small bevels on the edge where 
they met using the 1200X side - just enough to eliminate what was left 
of reflective surface on the edge. I used one the flats to remove what 
remained of the old hooks on a Sandvik card scraper, lifting the 
burnisher slightly to avoid having the leading edge contacting the 
scraper ( ie dragging the trailing microbevelled corner). Did that on 
both sides and then the scraper edge itself. Finished off by slightly 
raising the handle of the burnisher while I dragged it along each edge 
to form new hooks Done very lightly, almost no downward pressure 
applied.  Tested the new edges on a cheese board I'm restoring with 
Watco. Again, very lightly, no significant downward pressure on the 
scraper. It took dried nibs of finish off the surface, leaving a light 
dusting of finish on the scraper. There is little or no evidence of 
scraping on the cheeseboard, and I am ready to apply more coats. For my 
money, this is easier and better than sanding between coats. The scraper 
has a better edge than I'm able to produce with a rounded or oval 
burnisher for this application - ie cleaning up a finish.. So my final 
word on this topic is, Yes, a sharp-edged triangular tool can burnish a 
hook on a card scraper. I can't say if it would produce large hooks to 
take heavy cuts, but it sure works for the small hoooks needed to take 
fine cuts. Try it!

Don
251689 Bill Ghio <bghio@m...> 2014‑11‑16 Re: triangular scraper burnisher was Help identify this tool
I struggled for years to get a scraper to cut. It was hit and miss and I could
never figure out what I was doing wrong. Then I discovered the method shown in
this video and have been getting great edges ever since. The key is very light
pressure with the burnisher and not too much hook.

http://www.finewoodworking.com/tool-guide/video/how-to-sharpen-a-card-
scraper.aspx">http://www.finewoodworking.com/tool-guide/video/how-to-sharpen-a
-card-scraper.aspx

Bill

Sent from my iPad

> On Nov 15, 2014, at 7:26 PM, Don Schwartz  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 10/20/2014 7:51 AM, paul womack wrote:
>> James Thompson wrote:
>>> I may be the only person on the planet who doesn't understand this. I put a
lot of effort into sharpening my scrapers, and I use my scrapers a lot. I have
always been impressed when I see someone pulling up lovely curls. I have never
been able to do that, no matter how much effort I put into edge preparation. I
get powder, not curls, well maybe a little curl. I have never been able to use
my scrapers in the almost-straight-up position. I have to lean my scrapers
forward 15 or 20 degrees. The results from this seem satisfactory. It has not
mattered how little or how much pressure I put on my burnisher, or what angle I
use. I suppose there is an optimum pressure, and angle, but I haven't found it.
I have a chunk of 1 1/2" thick steel with a square side that I use to hold the
burnisher square to the scarysharp paper while sharpening. The problem has to be
with burnishing.
>>> 
>>> I have made burnishers in diameters from 1/8" to 1/2", and I have an oval
burnisher I got from Lee Valley. I have never tried a flat burnisher. I'll try
that soon.
>>> 
>>> But this Hirsch tool does not have a shiny flat surface that I think is
required for a burnisher. I have been working on polishing the flats, but the
original grind was pretty coarse, and it is quite a chore removing all the
scratches. That said, polishing the flats leaves very sharp edges, which do not
seem to part of the equation for a scraper burnisher. Obviously when I use the
tool as a burnisher the edges will degrade, but I don't see them as useful
anyway. They might even dig in.
>>> 
>>> So, Galoots.... How do I get the scraper nirvana I see everybody else
getting? I must not be holding my mouth right.
>> 
>> http://swingleydev.com/archive/get.php?message_id=153998&submit_thre
ad=1">http://swingleydev.com/archive/get.php?message_id=153998&submit_thread=1
>> 
>> BugBear
> I should apologize for coming back to this long after everyone else lost
interest. But I was still interested - and busy...
> 
> So I cleaned up 2 adjacent sides of one of my triangular 'file blanks' using
coarse Alox paper on glass to remove the factory grind marks and a diamond stone
325x. Then I put randomly small bevels on the edge where they met using the
1200X side - just enough to eliminate what was left of reflective surface on the
edge. I used one the flats to remove what remained of the old hooks on a Sandvik
card scraper, lifting the burnisher slightly to avoid having the leading edge
contacting the scraper ( ie dragging the trailing microbevelled corner). Did
that on both sides and then the scraper edge itself. Finished off by slightly
raising the handle of the burnisher while I dragged it along each edge to form
new hooks Done very lightly, almost no downward pressure applied.  Tested the
new edges on a cheese board I'm restoring with Watco. Again, very lightly, no
significant downward pressure on the scraper. It took dried nibs of finish off
the surface, leaving a light dusting of finish on the scraper. There is little
or no evidence of scraping on the cheeseboard, and I am ready to apply more
coats. For my money, this is easier and better than sanding between coats. The
scraper has a better edge than I'm able to produce with a rounded or oval
burnisher for this application - ie cleaning up a finish.. So my final word on
this topic is, Yes, a sharp-edged triangular tool can burnish a hook on a card
scraper. I can't say if it would produce large hooks to take heavy cuts, but it
sure works for the small hoooks needed to take fine cuts. Try it!
>

Recent Bios FAQ