GGs,


Was glancing through the book **A Woodworker's Guide to Joints**
(1998), by Jim Kingshott.  On p. 45, regarding handscrew-style clamps
(i.e. with actual wooden threads), he states "The wooden threads on
hand screws are dressed with powdered graphite.  A soft 2B pencil
rubbed over the threads will deposit sufficient graphite to lubricate
them."

But then he warns, "Under no circumstances put linseed or any other
oil on the wooden threads."

Why not?  (He doesn't explain.)  Why is it OK to lubricate with
graphite, but not oil?  It is because crud (sawdust) will stick to
them?  If so:  I oil the metal screws on my vices -- and they seem to
work fine...


Any Porch wisdom would be appreciated.  Thx!


--Travis

Travis,

Not exactly porch wisdom...

But in the world of wooden clock movements people like to slather the 
movements with linseed oil to "feed" and reinforce the teeth on the 
wheels. It doesn't. Instead it oxidizes, discoloring the wood and forms 
a sticky surface finish which is perfect for catching dust.  While the 
use of the word oil in the name might make one think it could be a 
lubricant, this is is not the case. I suspect this is why Kingshott 
makes this comment.

All, said I wouldn't use graphite powder either. When folks are finished 
soaking their clock movements in linseed oil they typically coat every 
working surface with heaps of graphite powder in lieu of proper repairs. 
It makes an awful mess and is miserable to clean off. If you coat your 
clamp threads with graphite likely you will end up with the stuff all 
over your project, hands, and clothes.

If your threads are well formed I suspect lubrication is unnecessary but 
in a pinch I would probably use some paste wax.

Troy


On 10/19/2014 9:41 AM, Gye Greene wrote:
> GGs,
>
>
> Was glancing through the book **A Woodworker's Guide to Joints**
> (1998), by Jim Kingshott.  On p. 45, regarding handscrew-style clamps
> (i.e. with actual wooden threads), he states "The wooden threads on
> hand screws are dressed with powdered graphite.  A soft 2B pencil
> rubbed over the threads will deposit sufficient graphite to lubricate
> them."
>
> But then he warns, "Under no circumstances put linseed or any other
> oil on the wooden threads."
>
> Why not?  (He doesn't explain.)  Why is it OK to lubricate with
> graphite, but not oil?  It is because crud (sawdust) will stick to
> them?  If so:  I oil the metal screws on my vices -- and they seem to
> work fine...
>
>
> Any Porch wisdom would be appreciated.  Thx!
>
>
> --Travis
>

Troy,


Good info; thanks!

For handscrews (and wooden vices), what would you think about a
non-drying oil such as mineral oil?  (The author says "...or any other
type of oil."  Seems like a non-drying oil would be OK.  Unless the
concern is that it would soften the wood(??).


--Travis


> But in the world of wooden clock movements people like to slather the
> movements with linseed oil to "feed" and reinforce the teeth on the wheels.
> It doesn't. Instead it oxidizes, discoloring the wood and forms a sticky
> surface finish which is perfect for catching dust.  While the use of the
> word oil in the name might make one think it could be a lubricant, this is
> is not the case. I suspect this is why Kingshott makes this comment.

((Snipped))

> If your threads are well formed I suspect lubrication is unnecessary but in
> a pinch I would probably use some paste wax.
>
> Troy

>> But then he warns, "Under no circumstances put linseed or any other
>> oil on the wooden threads."

Why not try paraffin or bees' wax? Probably less likely to pick up dirt and
dust, and it works well enough on the bottoms of wooden planes to reduce
friction...

Greg

2014-10-19 8:28 GMT-06:00 Gye Greene :

> Troy,
>
>
> Good info; thanks!
>
> For handscrews (and wooden vices), what would you think about a
> non-drying oil such as mineral oil?  (The author says "...or any other
> type of oil."  Seems like a non-drying oil would be OK.  Unless the
> concern is that it would soften the wood(??).
>
>
> --Travis
>
>
> > But in the world of wooden clock movements people like to slather the
> > movements with linseed oil to "feed" and reinforce the teeth on the
> wheels.
> > It doesn't. Instead it oxidizes, discoloring the wood and forms a sticky
> > surface finish which is perfect for catching dust.  While the use of the
> > word oil in the name might make one think it could be a lubricant, this
> is
> > is not the case. I suspect this is why Kingshott makes this comment.
>
> ((Snipped))
>
> > If your threads are well formed I suspect lubrication is unnecessary but
> in
> > a pinch I would probably use some paste wax.
> >
> > Troy
>
> >> But then he warns, "Under no circumstances put linseed or any other
> >> oil on the wooden threads."
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> http://rucku
s.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archi
ve/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/">http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>
> OldTools@r...
> http://rucku
s.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>

> For handscrews (and wooden vices), what would you think about a
> non-drying oil such as mineral oil?

I use an orange oil bee's wax blend often sold in antique stores.
Also use it on the channels of double hung windows.

Mike in Sacto

I probably should.  ;)

The short answer for "why not", is that I have loads of oil (I keep a
spray bottle handy -- a re-purposes "fabric stain remover" squirt
bottle) -- whereas I'd have to buy more candle wax or beeswax.  :)


--Travis

On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 12:49 AM, Greg Young Morris
 wrote:
> Why not try paraffin or bees' wax? Probably less likely to pick up dirt and
> dust, and it works well enough on the bottoms of wooden planes to reduce
> friction...
>
> Greg
>
> 2014-10-19 8:28 GMT-06:00 Gye Greene :
>>
>> Troy,
>>
>>
>> Good info; thanks!
>>
>> For handscrews (and wooden vices), what would you think about a
>> non-drying oil such as mineral oil?  (The author says "...or any other
>> type of oil."  Seems like a non-drying oil would be OK.  Unless the
>> concern is that it would soften the wood(??).
>>
>>
>> --Travis
>>
>>
>> > But in the world of wooden clock movements people like to slather the
>> > movements with linseed oil to "feed" and reinforce the teeth on the
>> > wheels.
>> > It doesn't. Instead it oxidizes, discoloring the wood and forms a sticky
>> > surface finish which is perfect for catching dust.  While the use of the
>> > word oil in the name might make one think it could be a lubricant, this
>> > is
>> > is not the case. I suspect this is why Kingshott makes this comment.
>>
>> ((Snipped))
>>
>> > If your threads are well formed I suspect lubrication is unnecessary but
>> > in
>> > a pinch I would probably use some paste wax.
>> >
>> > Troy
>>
>> >> But then he warns, "Under no circumstances put linseed or any other
>> >> oil on the wooden threads."
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
>> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
>> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
>> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>>
>> To change your subscription options:
>> http://ruck
us.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>>
>> To read the FAQ:
>> http://swingleydev.com/arch
ive/faq.html
>>
>> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/">http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>>
>> OldTools@r...
>> http://ruck
us.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
>

Greg Young Morris wrote:
> Why not try paraffin or bees' wax? Probably less likely to pick up dirt and
> dust, and it works well enough on the bottoms of wooden planes to reduce
> friction...

and Travis (Gye Greene)wrote: 

>> For handscrews (and wooden vices), what would you think about a
>> non-drying oil such as mineral oil?  (The author says "...or any other
>> type of oil."  Seems like a non-drying oil would be OK.  Unless the
>> concern is that it would soften the wood(??).


I somehow missed this developing thread. 

    On no account rub beeswax or paraffin wax on wooden threads. I've several
times had to repair bookbinders' presses where this was done in an attempt to
ease a slightly stiff screw. Instead, it froze things up completely, between the
extra bulk of the wax and the fact that beeswax is is sticky wax, not a slippery
wax. And if you don't have the original screw box its time consuming and boring
to correct the problem, with a danger of completely destroying the screw if you
aren't careful.

    If you have a surface that is already very smooth, like a plane bottom, a
very, very thin layer of wax can act as lubricant, but with a rough surface like
a wooden screw thread it will gum things up. And a soft wax will indeed pick up
dirt and dust, though maybe a hard one like carnauba wouldn't.

    I doubt whether a squirt of thin oil would do any good whatever as a
lubricant; I think it would just soak in. Possibly, if you absolutely must have
lubricant, a thick grease would work. I think a better bet would be graphite.
However, in general I don't approve of lubricant on wooden screws at all: if
there is enough play in the fit it shouldn't be necessary, and if there is not
enough play it shouldn't be necessary.


    I do soak new wooden screws in BLO, submerge them for a couple of hours for
good penetration, to strengthen and consolidate the threads. But that's for
strength, not lubrication, and I'm careful to blot off every bit of oil that I
can (I do this by wrapping the screw in a paper towel, then wrapping a piece of
string tightly around the paper towel in the low parts of the thread, pulling
the towel down into tight contact with the wood; leave that a few more hours,
maybe repeat). You have to be a bit careful for the first day or two after
soaking, because the wet oil leaves the threads even more fragile and tender
than they were before soaking. The tender stage passes pretty quickly, though,
and when it over the dried oil ***seems*** to leave the threads a bit tougher
and stronger. I've got no measurements or numbers or hard evidence that this
toughening actually occurs, just a touchy-feely observation that it seems to.
The linseed oil does nothing for
 lubrication, though, and if you leave any on the surface after soaking it will
definitely gum things up.

Tom Conroy
Berkeley


Tom Conroy

On 10/19/2014 4:31 PM, Thomas Conroy wrote:
>   the fact that beeswax is is sticky wax,


I have been astonished at the number of woodworkers on the internet who 
are stone cold convinced that beeswax is lubricious and many become 
angry when told otherwise.

It is also slightly acidic as compared to paraffin.

I have always just used paraffin wax (canning wax-- gulf wax) pretty cheap and
lasts forever. I rub the bar across the threads and run them back and forth, in
and out and it has worked well for me.

Brent K

Sent from my iPad

On Oct 19, 2014, at 10:59 AM, Gye Greene  wrote:

> I probably should.  ;)
> 
> The short answer for "why not", is that I have loads of oil (I keep a
> spray bottle handy -- a re-purposes "fabric stain remover" squirt
> bottle) -- whereas I'd have to buy more candle wax or beeswax.  :)
> 
> 
> --Travis
> 
> On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 12:49 AM, Greg Young Morris
>  wrote:
>> Why not try paraffin or bees' wax? Probably less likely to pick up dirt and
>> dust, and it works well enough on the bottoms of wooden planes to reduce
>> friction...
>> 
>> Greg
>> 
>> 2014-10-19 8:28 GMT-06:00 Gye Greene :
>>> 
>>> Troy,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Good info; thanks!
>>> 
>>> For handscrews (and wooden vices), what would you think about a
>>> non-drying oil such as mineral oil?  (The author says "...or any other
>>> type of oil."  Seems like a non-drying oil would be OK.  Unless the
>>> concern is that it would soften the wood(??).
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --Travis
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> But in the world of wooden clock movements people like to slather the
>>>> movements with linseed oil to "feed" and reinforce the teeth on the
>>>> wheels.
>>>> It doesn't. Instead it oxidizes, discoloring the wood and forms a sticky
>>>> surface finish which is perfect for catching dust.  While the use of the
>>>> word oil in the name might make one think it could be a lubricant, this
>>>> is
>>>> is not the case. I suspect this is why Kingshott makes this comment.
>>> 
>>> ((Snipped))
>>> 
>>>> If your threads are well formed I suspect lubrication is unnecessary but
>>>> in
>>>> a pinch I would probably use some paste wax.
>>>> 
>>>> Troy
>>> 
>>>>> But then he warns, "Under no circumstances put linseed or any other
>>>>> oil on the wooden threads."
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
>>> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
>>> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
>>> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>>> 
>>> To change your subscription options:
>>> http://ruc
kus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>>> 
>>> To read the FAQ:
>>> http://swingleydev.com/arc
hive/faq.html
>>> 
>>> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/">http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> OldTools@r...
>>> http://ruc
kus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>> 
>> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
> 
> To change your subscription options:
> http://rucku
s.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
> 
> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archi
ve/faq.html
> 
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/">http://swingleydev.com/archive/
> 
> OldTools@r...
> http://rucku
s.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools

I have always used beeswax on wood screws. It does seem to lubricate them,
because on some woods I simply cannot drive a screw in without first applying
beeswax on the threads. I don't really know why I use beeswax, other than it is
traditional. Maybe paraffin would work as well, I don't know.

On Oct 19, 2014, at 6:06 PM, rohrabacher  wrote:

> 
> On 10/19/2014 4:31 PM, Thomas Conroy wrote:
>>  the fact that beeswax is is sticky wax,
> 
> 
> I have been astonished at the number of woodworkers on the internet who are
stone cold convinced that beeswax is lubricious and many become angry when told
otherwise.
> 
> It is also slightly acidic as compared to paraffin.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
> 
> To change your subscription options:
> http://rucku
s.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
> 
> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archi
ve/faq.html
> 
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/">http://swingleydev.com/archive/
> 
> OldTools@r...
> http://rucku
s.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools

On 10/19/2014 11:59 AM, Gye Greene wrote:
> is that I have loads of oil (I keep a
> spray bottle handy -- a re-purposes "fabric stain remover


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

I've tried ( and failed miserably) to use atomizer sprayers, that work a 
trice with very thin fluids like water,  to spray vegetable oil in a mist.
They just won't they can generate a squirt, but no mist.
Do you get a squirt of oil in a stream or have you found something that 
can atomize the oil?

Hi Folks.

I am no expert, of course, But I would think the main reason to not
use any oil on  wood serews is to avoid swelling.  Swelling, of
course, being the death of wooden screws.  Makes 'em seize and thence
self-destruct.

As to bee's wax on metal screws in wood, it does lubricate a bit on
entry and helps to prevent rust while in place.  At least in my
experience.  I do agree that it is a sticky wax and does not lubricate
on any level other than previously mentioned.

I also had an old woodworker once tell me to use WD-40 to lubricate
wood screws (steel, brass, etc.) when inserting in wood.  It does
work, but I don't know about long-term effects.

That's the best brain dump I can offer on the subject and of course, YMMV.

Bruce Z.
Des Moines, IA


>
> But then he warns, "Under no circumstances put linseed or any other
> oil on the wooden threads."
>
> Why not?  (He doesn't explain.)  Why is it OK to lubricate with
> graphite, but not oil?
>

Whilst I have limited experience with wooden screws, I did make
three 'all wooden' sash cramps last year and can relate that when I
first made them, that the wood (which was straight out of the outdoor
wood racks sitting at about 14% moisture) was very tight when I first
assembled them, and squeaked when being turned, after leaving them in
the workshop over the weekend they went down to about 12% moisture and
moved quite freely and have done so ever since. 

This leads me to
believe that the matched cutters for making the wooden screws were
perhaps calibrated to take this into account. 

But it mainly makes me
think that the only reason they should be tight is if they are too
moist. 

Also that adding oil could make them swell back up again, I
guess if you are making your own cutters you could allow for this, but
you'd have to experiment with store bought cutters. 

But to my mind an
existing or old wood screw and nut should be correct, so unless they are
coated with something jamming them up either the screw or the nut has
got moist. 

Michael

On 10/20/2014 12:35 PM, michael@c... wrote:
> But to my mind an
> existing or old wood screw and nut should be correct, so unless they are
> coated with something jamming them up either the screw or the nut has
> got moist.
>
> Michael

More likley both. I believe that as old wooden clamps shrink or expand, 
you can have a differential effect. The hole in the jaw only shrinks and 
expands significantly in one dimension ( across the jaw) , but the 
threaded rod shrinks and expands both ways radially. Plus, they are 
frequently made of different woods.

FWIW
Don

On 21/10/2014 9:17 a.m., Don Schwartz wrote:
>> But to my mind an
>> existing or old wood screw and nut should be correct, so unless they are
>> coated with something jamming them up either the screw or the nut has
>> got moist.
>
> More likley both. I believe that as old wooden clamps shrink or expand,
> you can have a differential effect. The hole in the jaw only shrinks and
> expands significantly in one dimension ( across the jaw) , but the
> threaded rod shrinks and expands both ways radially. Plus, they are
> frequently made of different woods.

It occurs to me I could show everyone the sash cramps I made.

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/MisterSchmoo/02072013020_zpsa761
1268.jpg">http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/MisterSchmoo/02072013020_zpsa76
11268.jpg

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/MisterSchmoo/02072013021_zpsba31
fbf9.jpg">http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/MisterSchmoo/02072013021_zpsba3
1fbf9.jpg

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/MisterSchmoo/02072013019_zps0652
dcdc.jpg">http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/MisterSchmoo/02072013019_zps065
2dcdc.jpg

They are made of European Beech.

Michael

It's kind of a cone-shaped mist -- I think.

To be honest, I hold the nozzle pretty close to what I'm aiming at, rather
than get "overspray"(?) on everything behind it  -- and the floor.

I have my own, ideosyncratic technique down pretty well:  squirt the sole
of a handplane, or both sides of a saw blade, or both sides of the hatchet;
grab my "oil-rubbing cloth"; wipe the oil around; hang the cloth back up on
the hook.

So, I don't actually worry about "misting" -- I just try to get a moderate
dump and then spread it around.   (Note:  that sentence is amusing, if you
speak German)

Note that my "home mix" is half mineral oil, half eucalyptus oil (or
really, 60-40 -- because mineral oil is the cheaper of the two).  So it may
be thinner than vegetable oil.


--Travis


On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 12:42 AM, Cliff Rohrabacher, Esq <
rohrabacher@e...> wrote:

>
> On 10/19/2014 11:59 AM, Gye Greene wrote:
>
>> is that I have loads of oil (I keep a
>> spray bottle handy -- a re-purposes "fabric stain remover
>>
>
>
> Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
>
> I've tried ( and failed miserably) to use atomizer sprayers, that work a
> trice with very thin fluids like water,  to spray vegetable oil in a mist.
> They just won't they can generate a squirt, but no mist.
> Do you get a squirt of oil in a stream or have you found something that
> can atomize the oil?
>
>
> ------
>