OldTools Archive
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250682 | Ron Harper <kokomorontoo@g...> | 2014‑09‑29 | Low angle Krenov style plane |
anybody made one of these to use on your shooting board? Results? I Am having a hard time pulling the trigger on a 400 plane purchase. |
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250683 | "Adam R. Maxwell" <amaxwell@m...> | 2014‑09‑29 | Re: Low angle Krenov style plane |
> On Sep 29, 2014, at 12:18 , Ron Harper |
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250684 | Kirk Eppler <eppler.kirk@g...> | 2014‑09‑29 | Re: Low angle Krenov style plane |
Ron Hock put plans and a blade out there a few years back. Not wide like most, but a starting point. On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 12:18 PM, Ron Harper |
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250685 | "=?utf-8?B?cGhpbHNjaGVtcGZAZ21haWwuY29t?=" <philschempf@g...> | 2014‑09‑29 | Re: Low angle Krenov style plane |
You going to elaborate on that or just keep us in suspense? What did you make the sole and sides out of? Pics? I have a vague recollection that you might have already shared that here, but it was a long time ago like maybe last week the way my memory works any more. Phil Sent from my HTC ----- Reply message ----- From: "Adam R. Maxwell" |
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250686 | "Adam R. Maxwell" <amaxwell@m...> | 2014‑09‑29 | Re: Low angle Krenov style plane |
> On Sep 29, 2014, at 12:35 , philschempf@g... wrote: > > You going to elaborate on that or just keep us in suspense? What did you make the sole and sides out of? It's all mild steel from the hardware store, except for the NOS tapered iron. I should build another one just for fun. > Pics? I have a vague recollection that you might have already shared that here, but it was a long time ago like maybe last week the way my memory works any more. http://ww w.swingleydev.com/archive/get.php?message_id=243236 After some additional time to work with it, I'll say that it doesn't have the mass of a dedicated shooting plane, so it's harder to use for 3/4" stock. On the other hand, I find it more comfortable than my Bailey planes, for which I've been too lazy to make the grip that Alf posted on her blog a couple years ago. I suppose the Krenov avoids some of the fragility concerns with the bed that you have in a traditional wooden plane, but I'm not sold on wooden low-angle planes, whether for shooting or not. I don't think the lighter weight is an asset, and you can't get the bed angle as low as on a metal plane. Adam Port Angeles, WA |
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250687 | "Adam R. Maxwell" <amaxwell@m...> | 2014‑09‑29 | Re: Low angle Krenov style plane |
> On Sep 29, 2014, at 12:18 , Ron Harper |
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250688 | "Chuck Taylor" <cft98208@g...> | 2014‑09‑29 | Re: Low angle Krenov style plane |
Ron wrote: > anybody made one of these to use on your shooting board? Results? I Am > having a hard time pulling the trigger on a 400 plane purchase. A metal low-angle plane usually has a 12-degree bed angle plus a 25-degree bevel on the iron, for a total cutting angle of 37 degrees. . A 12-degree bed angle would be impractical in wood. However, if you make the bed angle 37 degrees and go with a bevel-down iron, then your cutting angle is also 37 degrees. The cutting angle is what the wood sees; it doesn't care about the bed angle. A 37-degree bed angle would work fine on a Krenov-style plane. Bevel angle on a bevel-down plane doesn't affect the cutting angle, but it does affect the clearance angle. Clearance angle is bed angle minus bevel angle, and needs to be at least 10 degrees. Keep the bevel angle on the iron at 27 degrees or less and you should be fine. Whelan talks about American wooden miter planes as having bed angles of 30-40 degrees. Cheers, Chuck Taylor north of Seattle |
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250705 | Derek Cohen <derekcohen@i...> | 2014‑09‑30 | Re: Low angle Krenov style plane |
Ron asked: |
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250707 | paul womack <pwomack@p...> | 2014‑09‑30 | Re: Low angle Krenov style plane |
Here's a wooden, skew mitre plane; http://www.phillyplanes.co.uk/ skew.html BugBear Chuck Taylor wrote: > Ron wrote: > >> anybody made one of these to use on your shooting board? Results? I Am >> having a hard time pulling the trigger on a 400 plane purchase. > > A metal low-angle plane usually has a 12-degree bed angle plus a 25-degree > bevel on the iron, for a total cutting angle of 37 degrees. . > > A 12-degree bed angle would be impractical in wood. However, if you make > the bed angle 37 degrees and go with a bevel-down iron, then your cutting > angle is also 37 degrees. The cutting angle is what the wood sees; it > doesn't care about the bed angle. A 37-degree bed angle would work fine > on a Krenov-style plane. > > Bevel angle on a bevel-down plane doesn't affect the cutting angle, but > it does affect the clearance angle. Clearance angle is bed angle minus > bevel angle, and needs to be at least 10 degrees. Keep the bevel angle on > the iron at 27 degrees or less and you should be fine. > > Whelan talks about American wooden miter planes as having bed angles of > 30-40 degrees. > > Cheers, > Chuck Taylor > north of Seattle > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To change your subscription options: > http://rucku s.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > To read the FAQ: > http://swingleydev.com/archi ve/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/">http://swingleydev.com/archive/ > > OldTools@r... > http://rucku s.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > |
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250709 | John Holladay <docholladay0820@g...> | 2014‑09‑30 | Re: Low angle Krenov style plane |
Glad Paul brought up the skew plane. My favorite shooting plane is actually a skew block plane (MF 07). Obviously, it is only suited for small items, but I love the surface left by the skewed please. I've thought of building a shooting board with a slope to get a skew effect from a standard plane. Does anyone out there use one? I would think it would still have some limitations on material size, but then, so does any plane at some point. Doc On Sep 30, 2014 9:01 AM, "paul womack" |
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250710 | Ed Minch <ruby@m...> | 2014‑09‑30 | Re: Low angle Krenov style plane |
On Sep 30, 2014, at 1:09 PM, John Holladay |
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250718 | Brent Beach <brent.beach@g...> | 2014‑10‑01 | Re: Low angle Krenov style plane |
But .. A topic that comes up now and then On 2014-09-30 10:09, John Holladay wrote: > thought of building a shooting board with a slope to get a skew effect from > a standard plane. Does anyone out there use one? I would think it would Sloping the ramp does not get the same result as angling the blade to the line of motion. On a sloped ramp, the blade is square to the line of motion so the shaving travels straight up the blade. However, there is one small advantage to a sloped ramp. You use more of the blade so the blade stays sharp longer and has less pronounced wear in the middle. Google "What about ramped shooting boards?" for a full explanation. The previous item on that page is "How does skewing change the cutting angle?" Brent -- Brent Beach Victoria, BC, Canada |
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250724 | Thomas Conroy <booktoolcutter@y...> | 2014‑10‑01 | Re: Low angle Krenov style plane |
Adam Maxwell tells us that he made himself an infill plane because "I've been too lazy to make the grip [for a Bailey] that Alf posted on her blog a couple years ago." I know we're not supposed to say "You suck" any more. I even agree with that dictate of courtesy. But there are time when, with the greatest friendship, respect, and envy, no other comment will do. Tom Conroy Gonna make one myself. Some day. Just have to find that round tuit... |
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250725 | paul womack <pwomack@p...> | 2014‑10‑01 | Re: Low angle Krenov style plane |
Blake Ashley wrote: > A slope doesn't actually replicate the effect of a skewed blade, although it will spread out the wear on the edge. I would state that (very carefully as) > A slope doesn't actually replicate ALL the effectS of a skewed blade, although it will spread out the wear on the edge. My own feeling is that one of the major benefits of a skewed blade is the gradual entry and exit from the cut (when the blade edge is not parallel to the workpiece edges). This effect is replicated by a sloped shooting ramp. This has two results; the more obvious of the two is that the force required to move the plane changes more smoothly; you don't get a BANG when the cut starts (which could jolt the plane off line, hurt the wrist etc). But the other result is that as the plane leave the cut, each fibre on the far edge is supported by the fibre to its side as it is cut; this has the result of reducing spelching. BugBear |
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250728 | Dragon List <dragon01list@g...> | 2014‑10‑01 | Re: Low angle Krenov style plane |
that last being a technical term, known in england, eh? any american equivalent? paddy's gotta be wondering! bill felton, ca On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:24 AM, paul womack |
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250729 | Norm Wood <normw013@f...> | 2014‑10‑01 | Re: Low angle Krenov style plane |
On 01 Oct, paul womack wrote: > Blake Ashley wrote: > >A slope doesn't actually replicate the effect of a skewed blade, although it will spread out the wear on the edge. > > I would state that (very carefully as) > > > A slope doesn't actually replicate ALL the effectS of a skewed blade, although it will spread out the wear on the edge. > > My own feeling is that one of the major benefits of a skewed blade > is the gradual entry and exit from the cut (when the blade edge is not parallel > to the workpiece edges). This effect is replicated by a sloped shooting ramp. I'm wondering about this. With a shooting board and a standard non-skewed plane, isn't the direction of travel of the blade normal to the blade edge, regardless of whether the shooting board is ramped or not? It seems the gradual entry and exit requires the blade edge to be skew to its direction of travel, as would be the case with a skewed plane or when using a knife for slicing. Regards, Norm |
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250730 | paul womack <pwomack@p...> | 2014‑10‑01 | Re: Low angle Krenov style plane |
Norm Wood wrote: > On 01 Oct, paul womack wrote: >> Blake Ashley wrote: >>> A slope doesn't actually replicate the effect of a skewed blade, although it will spread out the wear on the edge. >> >> I would state that (very carefully as) >> >>> A slope doesn't actually replicate ALL the effectS of a skewed blade, although it will spread out the wear on the edge. >> >> My own feeling is that one of the major benefits of a skewed blade >> is the gradual entry and exit from the cut (when the blade edge is not parallel >> to the workpiece edges). This effect is replicated by a sloped shooting ramp. > > I'm wondering about this. With a shooting board and a standard > non-skewed plane, isn't the direction of travel of the blade normal to > the blade edge, regardless of whether the shooting board is ramped or > not? Correct. > It seems the gradual entry and exit requires the blade edge to be > skew to its direction of travel. No - consider the simplest way of achieving this, a skewed (rotated) work piece on a normal shooting board. But rotating the plane (and ramp), leaving the workpiece "normal" also has the effect. BugBear |
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250731 | Norm Wood <normw013@f...> | 2014‑10‑01 | Re: Low angle Krenov style plane |
Hi Paul, GGs, On 01 Oct, paul womack wrote: > Norm Wood wrote: > > >It seems the gradual entry and exit requires the blade edge to be > >skew to its direction of travel. > > No - consider the simplest way of achieving this, a skewed (rotated) work > piece on a normal shooting board. > > But rotating the plane (and ramp), leaving the workpiece "normal" > also has the effect. Right, and there are a couple of possibly reasonable ways to rotate the workpiece. Are you thinking of rotating the workpiece around its long axis? I don't think this is equivalent to a ramped shooting board. Imagine shooting a miter on a picture frame molding. Rotating the molding about its long axis will change the orientation of the miter on the end of the board (think of going from "flat" frame to a "shadow box" frame), but a ramped shooting board doesn't have this effect. And I think that rotating the workpiece about its long axis doesn't affect the cutting mechanics. Imagine shooting a miter on the end of a dowel - rotating the dowel doesn't change how the blade cuts the wood fibers. Regards, Norm |
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250736 | Ed Minch <ruby@m...> | 2014‑10‑01 | Re: Low angle Krenov style plane |
On Oct 1, 2014, at 9:43 AM, Norm Wood |
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250737 | Norm Wood <normw013@f...> | 2014‑10‑01 | Re: Low angle Krenov style plane |
On 01 Oct, Ed Minch wrote: > > > I struggled with this til I realized that Bugbear is not saying that > the ramped board makes the plane act like a skew, but only that the > entry and exit of the blade are no longer absolutely square to the > edge of the board and therefore less likely to spelch. > > The closest analogy I can think of is if your board had about a 5° > angled edge instead of a square edge and you had a non-ramped board, > the blade would have the same relationship tp the wood. Spelching > indeed. Thanks, Ed. Bugbear sent me a followup which made it finally click, and then I realized that was exactly what he described in the original post. I also realized I do this, too, when I'm cleaning up endgrain freehand, to help the plane ease into the cut. Doh. Regards, Norm |
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250747 | Ed Minch <ruby@m...> | 2014‑10‑02 | Re: Low angle Krenov style plane |
Norm Thinking about it, skewing the plane when dressing end grain does 2 things - first it allows the plane to enter the cut at the corner and not the full width - what BugBear is talking about - AND it allow a skew cut. Best of all possible worlds. Ed Minch On Oct 1, 2014, at 5:50 PM, Norm Wood |
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250748 | Brian Welch <brian.w.welch@g...> | 2014‑10‑02 | Re: Low angle Krenov style plane |
I wanted to add a link to Jeff Gorman's classic ramped shooting / shuteing board, for those newer to the list: http://www.amgron.clara .net/rampedboard68.html Jeff describes the benefits in his always straightforward and helpful way: "The ramp has the advantage of extending the wear over a greater part of the cutting iron. Also the start and end of the cut is gradual. Instead of the whole (working) width of the blade entering and leaving the cut at the same moment, there a gradual engagement and disengagement. At the start of the stroke, this slightly reduces the bang and at the end of the stroke it can reduce breakout (called spelching). The effective cutting angle is unchanged. The ramp gives the illusion of slewing, but is really only making a diagonal cut with the plane travelling in a straight line along its axis." Brian 15 years later I'm still meaning to make one of those |
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