Apologies if this has been submitted before...

I ran across this site tonight and there is a brief, but very cool, description
and video of a functioning old up and down sawmill in New Hampshire. I was
surprised by the speed of the water wheel, I always thought they were much
slower than what is shown here.

Enjoy!  

Brent K.

Sent from my
iPad------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry, my bad....I forgot to attach the link.  And this is a full size mill with
a 6 foot blade!
http://rainfordrestorations.wordpress.com/2014/07/11/1805-taylor-old-
up-and-down-sawmill/">http://rainfordrestorations.wordpress.com/2014/07/11/1805
-taylor-old-up-and-down-sawmill/

Brent K.

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 11, 2014, at 10:14 PM, Brent Kinsey  wrote:

> Apologies if this has been submitted before...
> 
> I ran across this site tonight and there is a brief, but very cool,
description and video of a functioning old up and down sawmill in New Hampshire.
I was surprised by the speed of the water wheel, I always thought they were much
slower than what is shown here.
> 
> Enjoy!  
> 
> Brent K.
> 
> Sent from my
iPad------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
> 
> To change your subscription options:
> http://rucku
s.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
> 
> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archi
ve/faq.html
> 
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/">http://swingleydev.com/archive/
> 
> OldTools@r...
> http://rucku
s.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools

> I was surprised by the speed of the water wheel, I always
> thought they were much slower than what is shown here.

Thanks for this.  Great read and watch.  Water wheels are capable
of great power, a good deal more than people expect.  Burden's
horse shoe factory used a 28 foot over shot water wheel to churn
out 60 ready made horse shoes per minute (yep, one per second).
His first patent on the machine was 1840 something, and his last
improvement on the machine was patented in 1862.  That water
wheel produced 1000 horse power.

Are they practical?  Anybody here read John Goffe's Mill?
George Woodbury wrote the book, published in 1948.  He inherited
the mill and ended up putting it to work.  It became his sole
source of income as he invented more and different jobs for it
to do.  During WW II it powered a lathe at which he manufactured
lignum vitae bearings for the Navy.

Heck of a good read.  Probly ought to be on some required reading
list for Galoots.

Mike in Sacto

Brent:

that is very cool - too bad the log is not being advanced against the blade

In Wilmington DE there is the site of the original DuPont gunpowder mills.  They
have water turbines instead of water wheels - installed before the civil war.
These are about the size of a 50 gallon drum, have a sealed top to hold the
pressure in, and spin at an amazing rate - I could only find this short video
and it is not very dramatic because you can’t see the turbine:

https://www.youtube.com/wa
tch?v=3BentueNsm8

It may be turning at 3 or 400 RPM, and the 2 shafts each go to a set of rolling
mills that must weigh a couple of tons each:

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g34059-d107854-Reviews-
Hagley_Museum_and_Library-Wilmington_Delaware.html#LIGHTBOXVIEW">http://www.trip
advisor.com/Attraction_Review-g34059-d107854-Reviews-Hagley_Museum_and_Library-
Wilmington_Delaware.html#LIGHTBOXVIEW

They also have a civil war era machine shop run with line shafts driven by a
giant turbine (8 feet across).  A site to behold in operation:

htt
ps://www.flickr.com/photos/in_vision/9051075765/in/photostream/

Ed Minch





On Jul 11, 2014, at 11:27 PM, Brent Kinsey  wrote:

> Sorry, my bad....I forgot to attach the link.  And this is a full size mill
with a 6 foot blade!
> http://rainfordrestorations.wordpress.com/2014/07/11/1805-taylor-old-
up-and-down-sawmill/">http://rainfordrestorations.wordpress.com/2014/07/11/1805
-taylor-old-up-and-down-sawmill/
> 
> Brent K.

This type of saw is also called a sash saw, and .  There is a sash saw mill
being restored in Harrison, ME - Scribner's Mill.  I spent some time there
a couple of years ago and had a great tour of the mill and homestead.  As
you can tell, the sash saw is directly evolved from the human-powered pit
saw.  Interesting fact, the link that connects the crank on the drive wheel
to the saw frame is called a "pitman arm".  One way of dating old buildings
is to see if the timbers have straight saw marks (pit saw or sash saw) or
curved (circular saw).

The mill is open only two weekends a month, but worth visit if you are in
the area.  Here is the web site:

http://www.scribnersmill.org/

Another restored up-down mill is the Ledyard Mill in Ledyard, CT.  Their
web site has a lot of interesting information on this type of mill,
including photos on identifying saw marks on boards.

http://www.ledyardsawmill.org/

A group I don't recall seeing mentioned here that may be of interest is the
Society for the Preservation of Old Mills.

http://www.spoom.org/
Ken Shepard


On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 11:14 PM, Brent Kinsey  wrote:

> Apologies if this has been submitted before...
>
> I ran across this site tonight and there is a brief, but very cool,
> description and video of a functioning old up and down sawmill in New
> Hampshire. I was surprised by the speed of the water wheel, I always
> thought they were much slower than what is shown here.
>
> Enjoy!
>
> Brent K.
>
> Sent from my
> iPad------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> http://rucku
s.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archi
ve/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/">http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>
> OldTools@r...
> http://rucku
s.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>

Old Sturbridge Village has an operating up and down saw mill.

https://osv.org/sawmill/

Here's a video of the mill  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vypOnLaDXI
">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vypOnLaDXI


Bruce Lambert
Leominster, MA

Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.  - New England proverb

Just a follow-up with links for the "Home Shop".  Thanks for the heads-up,
Nichael.

www.shakerovalbox.com/school
/sked2003.pdf

(Ignore the year, the information is correct.  File is for a current
schedule of classes.)

Here's John's site:

http://www.shakerovalbox.com/

Regards,

Dwight


On Sat, Jul 12, 2014 at 9:36 AM, Nichael Cramer  wrote:

> I've not noticed anyone else mentioning this, but...
>
> For the last year or so, the catalogues from the Home Shop have
> included information for pre-ordering John Wilson's new book
> "Shaker Oval Boxes, Vol 1"
>
> When I got home yesterday evening, there was a package from
> the Home Shop waiting for me, containing my (signed) copy of the book.
>
> As a brief summary, the subtitle to Vol 1 reads "A Craftsman's Guide
> to Original, Derivative and Diverse Forms of the Oval Box.
>
> That is, this first volume contains photos and descriptions of the
> multi-form "Original" (i.e. variations of the oval box as build by
> the Shakers), "Derivative" ("oval-box-based" variations, eg. Jewelry boxes,
> trays, etc) and "Diverse" (e.g. Scandinavian "tine" boxes, bamboo
> boxes with can lacing, Japanese mage wappa, etc) examples from
> the broad world of oval boxes.
>
> The full-page color photographs are beautiful, and the descriptions
> are very much to the point, from the hand of skilled craftsman
> who clearly loves his work and its products.
>
> As I understand it, subsequent volumes will cover issues having
> to do with technique, etc (but unfortunately, I can't find the original
> flier so that I could describe the plans for these volumes more accurately.
> Perhaps someone else has a copy?)
>
> Anyway, just thought interested folks might like to know.
>
> Nichael ------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> http://rucku
s.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archi
ve/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/">http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>
> OldTools@r...
> http://rucku
s.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>

Brent Kinsey wrote:
> Apologies if this has been submitted before...
>
> I ran across this site tonight and there is a brief, but very cool,
description and video of a functioning old up and down sawmill in New Hampshire.
I was surprised by the speed of the water wheel, I always thought they were much
slower than what is shown here.
>

Here's one near (by USA standards) me:

http://www.guntonparksawmill.co.uk
/

  BugBear

Bugbear

The place as up and running by 1824 and they talk about “the original” circular
saw.  Do yu know if the circular saw was there in 1824?  I know we did a thread
on this a while back, and this sounds pretty early for one.

Ed Minch





On Jul 14, 2014, at 6:06 AM, paul womack  wrote:

> 
> Here's one near (by USA standards) me:
> 
> http://www.guntonparksawmill.co.
uk/
> 
> BugBear

> The place as up and running by 1824 and they talk about “the original”
> circular saw.  Do yu know if the circular saw was there in 1824?

Apparently possible.  From the history section of the Wikipedia article
on circular saws, it seems the circular blade made its appearance in the
late 1700s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki
/Circular_saw

Mike in Sacto

Mike in Sacto wrote

Are they practical?  Anybody here read John Goffe's Mill?

George Woodbury wrote the book, published in 1948.  He inherited the mill
and ended up putting it to work.  It became his sole source of income as he
invented more and different jobs for it to do.  During WW II it powered a
lathe at which he manufactured lignum vitae bearings for the Navy.

Heck of a good read.  Probly ought to be on some required reading list for
Galoots.

Thanks for the tip off on this book Mike. Just finished the InterLibrary
Loan copy this morning on the train. Heck of a good read and very galootish
in its content and tone.

I've read much of the 'required galoot reading list' Sturt, Rose, etc. and
I can whole heartedly recommend John Goffe's Mill to the list.

Many of the passages in the book reflect both Chris Schwartz' current
output aboutworking with your hands as well as another book I'm reading
now, Shop Class as Soulcraft, by Matthew Crawford on the
compatmentalization of skill and craft for the benefit of the managers and
owners at the expense of craftsman.
Great read, thank you.
-- 
Michael-Frightening the neighbors since the year Four

On 7/31/2014 7:32 PM, Michael Suwczinsky wrote:
> George Woodbury

Looking up that name eventually led me to this
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xy3nnh_hands-cavan-cabinetmakers-
no-11-1980_lifestyle#.UYQjPFVwZy1">http://www.dailymotion.com/video
/xy3nnh_hands-cavan-cabinetmakers-no-11-1980_lifestyle#.UYQjPFVwZy1
Where I found a video on inlay work where  a guy wears a suit to the 
workshop.

Mike, 

Thanks for posting the tip on this book a couple of weeks ago.  I picked up a
worn “first edition” (woo hoo) in decent enough shape, for $16 with shipping
through Abe Books (where I noted that “very good” copies were going for $50 or
more).  The first owner had given it to a child as a present, with a note on the
flyleaf: “This is my favorite book!”  I finished reading it last weekend and
consider it an Excellent read, well worth the time.  The discussion of salvaging
the water turbine brought me back to my days nearly forty years ago of working
in a company that designed / upgraded small hydro plants.

Charlie Driggs


On Jul 31, 2014, at 7:32 PM, Michael Suwczinsky  wrote:

Mike in Sacto wrote

Are they practical?  Anybody here read John Goffe's Mill?

George Woodbury wrote the book, published in 1948.  He inherited the mill
and ended up putting it to work.  It became his sole source of income as he
invented more and different jobs for it to do.  During WW II it powered a
lathe at which he manufactured lignum vitae bearings for the Navy.

Heck of a good read.  Probly ought to be on some required reading list for
Galoots.

Hi Charlie,

He wrote a sequel. I stumbled across a copy but didn't get around to it,
and now I can't find it.  But it's around here somewhere.  I'm surprised 
at
the prices.  But to me, the inscription in your copy is priceless.

I'm glad you liked it.  Salvaging the water turbine was great, shoot, 
finding
it was an adventure.  Lots of good stories between the covers, but also, 
like
the inscription, a glimpse into a life and a time.

Mike in Sacto