OldTools Archive

Recent Bios FAQ

247181 leeburk@a... 2014‑04‑17 Old Dog, New Trick - AKA Diamond sharpening
I have some carbide tipped turning tools recently acquired from Ebay. How do I
put an edge on those? Especially the gouges? Sure diamond may work if one has
some diamonds laying around, but haven't I heard in the ancient past that
sometimes something softer can be used to cut something harder? Maybe I'm
thinking of Rock, Paper, Scissors, I dunno. You grizzled old engineers out
there, bestow your wisdom.
Lee
247182 James Thompson <oldmillrat@m...> 2014‑04‑17 Re: Old Dog, New Trick - AKA Diamond sharpening
On Apr 16, 2014, at 9:18 PM, leeburk@a... wrote:

> 
> I have some carbide tipped turning tools recently acquired from Ebay. How do I
put an edge on those? Especially the gouges? Sure diamond may work if one has
some diamonds laying around, but haven't I heard in the ancient past that
sometimes something softer can be used to cut something harder? Maybe I'm
thinking of Rock, Paper, Scissors, I dunno. You grizzled old engineers out
there, bestow your wisdom.
> Lee

Get thee a silicon carbide grinding wheel in a fine grit. The wheels are green
in color. Then get thee a good sharpening jig made for sharpening turning tools,
particularly gouges. Pay more than $100 for this jig. There are cheaper jigs,
but after you buy one and find that they don't work well, you will buy a good
one anyway.

Can you sharpen carbide turning tools without a jig? Of course. After you have
worn them out because you need to keep sharpening them because they were not
properly sharpened in the first place, and then you buy new ones. By then you
will have gained the skills necessary to sharpen them by hand. I strongly
recommend the good jig.

Do you need carbide turning tools? As you will learn, the answer is no. But we
all have to go through the process. Ask yourself how much actual time you will
spend turning. Few of us really do a lot of turning. I have several of the
carbide tools, and the sharpening stuff. And now that I know the name of this
game, I would NOT EVER buy another carbide tool. But like I said, everybody has
to go through this to learn that they don't need them. The only exception is the
professional bowl turner. He needs them. We don't.

But hey! What do I know?
247186 paul womack <pwomack@p...> 2014‑04‑17 Re: Old Dog, New Trick - AKA Diamond sharpening
leeburk@a... wrote:
> but haven't I heard in the ancient past that sometimes something softer can be
used to cut something harder?

Ooh - that's a nasty and deceptive partial truth/understanding there.

What you're semi-recalling is that *when lapping* the harder of the two metals
(commonly cast iron and high carbon steel, in engineering circles) is worn away.

But the thing doing the wearing is diamond or SiC grit, which is harder
than both.

The explanation is that the abrasive particles embed in the softer
material, and (hence) scrape over the harder material.

In model/workshop engineering some processes use
lead laps to work mild steel.

  BugBear
247227 leeburk@a... 2014‑04‑17 Re: Old Dog, New Trick - AKA Diamond sharpening
So how do they drill, grind and polish a diamond, if there is nothing harder to
use in the process? Ergo, the drilling, grinding, polishing medium must be
something softer, eh?
Lee

-----Original Message-----
From: paul womack 
To: leeburk ; OldTools ; scottg 
Sent: Thu, Apr 17, 2014 2:05 am
Subject: Re: [OldTools] Old Dog, New Trick - AKA Diamond sharpening


leeburk@a... wrote:
> but haven't I heard in the ancient past that sometimes something softer can be
used to cut something harder?

Ooh - that's a nasty and deceptive partial truth/understanding there.

What you're semi-recalling is that *when lapping* the harder of the two metals
(commonly cast iron and high carbon steel, in engineering circles) is worn away.

But the thing doing the wearing is diamond or SiC grit, which is harder
than both.

The explanation is that the abrasive particles embed in the softer
material, and (hence) scrape over the harder material.

In model/workshop engineering some processes use
lead laps to work mild steel.

  BugBear
247231 Ken Shepard <waruba@c...> 2014‑04‑17 Re: Old Dog, New Trick - AKA Diamond sharpening
Diamond dust - really.


On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 2:45 PM,  wrote:

>
> So how do they drill, grind and polish a diamond, if there is nothing
> harder to use in the process? Ergo, the drilling, grinding, polishing
> medium must be something softer, eh?
> Lee
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: paul womack 
> To: leeburk ; OldTools ;
> scottg 
> Sent: Thu, Apr 17, 2014 2:05 am
> Subject: Re: [OldTools] Old Dog, New Trick - AKA Diamond sharpening
>
>
> leeburk@a... wrote:
> > but haven't I heard in the ancient past that sometimes something softer
> can be
> used to cut something harder?
>
> Ooh - that's a nasty and deceptive partial truth/understanding there.
>
> What you're semi-recalling is that *when lapping* the harder of the two
> metals
> (commonly cast iron and high carbon steel, in engineering circles) is worn
> away.
>
> But the thing doing the wearing is diamond or SiC grit, which is harder
> than both.
>
> The explanation is that the abrasive particles embed in the softer
> material, and (hence) scrape over the harder material.
>
> In model/workshop engineering some processes use
> lead laps to work mild steel.
>
>   BugBear
>
>
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247237 Michael Blair <branson2@s...> 2014‑04‑17 Re: Old Dog, New Trick - AKA Diamond sharpening
> So how do they drill, grind and polish a diamond, if there is nothing
> harder to use in the process?

You use industrial grade diamonds. That's what is actually used in 
cutting
diamonds.

> Ergo, the drilling, grinding, polishing medium must be something 
> softer, eh?

Nope.

Mike in Sacto
247285 Brent Beach <brent.beach@g...> 2014‑04‑19 Re: Old Dog, New Trick - AKA Diamond sharpening
Lee

On 2014-04-16 21:18, leeburk@a... wrote:
>
> I have some carbide tipped turning tools recently acquired from Ebay. How do I
put an edge on those? Especially the gouges? Sure diamond may work if one has
some diamonds laying around, but haven't I heard in the ancient past that
sometimes something softer can be used to cut something harder? Maybe I'm
thinking of Rock, Paper, Scissors, I dunno. You grizzled old engineers out
there, bestow your wisdom.

https://www.youtube.com/wa
tch?v=kLQk4U5ihz4

Have not tried it myself, but if it works let us know. Notice he says 
light pressure.

Brent
-- 
Brent Beach
Victoria, BC, Canada
247287 JAMES THOMPSON <oldmillrat@m...> 2014‑04‑19 Re: Old Dog, New Trick - AKA Diamond sharpening
On Apr 18, 2014, at 8:24 PM, Brent Beach  wrote:

> Lee
> 
> On 2014-04-16 21:18, leeburk@a... wrote:
>> 
>> I have some carbide tipped turning tools recently acquired from Ebay. How do
I put an edge on those? Especially the gouges? Sure diamond may work if one has
some diamonds laying around, but haven't I heard in the ancient past that
sometimes something softer can be used to cut something harder? Maybe I'm
thinking of Rock, Paper, Scissors, I dunno. You grizzled old engineers out
there, bestow your wisdom.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/
watch?v=kLQk4U5ihz4
> 
> Have not tried it myself, but if it works let us know. Notice he says light
pressure.

The tool bits in the video are scrapers. Yes, you can sharpen a carbide scraper
on a diamond hone. And it will still be a scraper. In my humble opinion, a
carbide scraper doesn't work any better, or the edge last any longer than a high
speed tool. I just costs more.

You can also touch up a carbide gouge with a diamond stone. But a couple of
touch ups and the cutting angle changes, and now it doesn't work well. Now you
need to regrind the gouge. Until you learn to grind a carbide gouge  correctly,
it won't work well. And I see no reason to use a carbide gouge, except inside a
bowl. And a high speed gouge works just as well.

Carbide turning tools are just too expensive, don't work better than high speed,
and are way more difficult to sharpen. Save your money and buy high speed tools.
Unless you just gotta show off, and you have money to burn. Been there, done
that, won't do it again.

Recent Bios FAQ