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229504 "Adam R. Maxwell" <amaxwell@m...> 2012‑04‑30 turning tool handles
GGs,

I need some advice on handle sizes for a couple of old Buck Bros. tools
I picked up to use with my pole lathe:

http://tinyurl.com/7b6qq4m

The tangs are about 1" wide at the widest part, and 1/4-5/16" thick.
Any idea what size handle these would have come with?  Should I just
make the largest handle I can grip?  Getting the tangs seated without
splitting is going to be fun, too...

Dunno how long these were when new, but the photo really doesn't show
how massive they are.  That gouge is steadier on the toolrest than my
import 1" gouge, even without a handle!

thanks,
Adam
Port Angeles, WA

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229505 James Thompson <oldmillrat@m...> 2012‑04‑30 Re: turning tool handles
The tang doesn't need to go all the way into the handle. I make my lathe tool ha
ndles about 14" long for the larger ones, 12" for smaller sizes. A 1" diameter f
errule is about right. Diameter is dependent on how big your hands are. My hands
 are big, so I like 1 1/8" for the grip.

You need to heat the tang red hot while the tool is secured in the vise. Then pu
sh the handle onto the tang. It won't go all the way the first time. repeat as n
ecessary. 

If the handle you make doesn't suit you, just remove the ferrule and make anothe
r one.

On Apr 30, 2012, at 8:00 PM, Adam R. Maxwell wrote:

> GGs,
> 
> I need some advice on handle sizes for a couple of old Buck Bros. tools
> I picked up to use with my pole lathe:
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/7b6qq4m
> 
> The tangs are about 1" wide at the widest part, and 1/4-5/16" thick.
> Any idea what size handle these would have come with?  Should I just
> make the largest handle I can grip?  Getting the tangs seated without
> splitting is going to be fun, too...
> 
> Dunno how long these were when new, but the photo really doesn't show
> how massive they are.  That gouge is steadier on the toolrest than my
> import 1" gouge, even without a handle!
> 
> thanks,
> Adam
> Port Angeles, WA
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
> 
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> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
> 
> To read the FAQ:
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> 
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> 
> OldTools@r...
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------------------------------------------------------------------------

229515 Kirk Eppler <eppler.kirk@g...> 2012‑05‑01 Re: turning tool handles
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 8:00 PM, Adam R. Maxwell  wrote:

> GGs,
>
> I need some advice on handle sizes for a couple of old Buck Bros. tools
> I picked up to use with my pole lathe:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/7b6qq4m
>
> The tangs are about 1" wide at the widest part, and 1/4-5/16" thick.
>

If its any consolation, the chisels were probably sold that way.  The
Rayl's 1905 catalog shows them as Buck Bros Extra Long Turning Chisels &
Gouges, in sizes 1/8" to 2" ($0.25 to 0.90) skews and gouges the same sizes
($0.30 to 1.27 each).   Average Length 11"

In their handle section, They have screwdriver, file, gravers, carving,
shank chisel, socket firmer, tang firmer, Socket framing, chisel, Buck Bros
Fancy Style Shank Handles (and Socket too), Octagon and Round Boxwood and
Rosewood Handles.   But not turning tool handles.  Guess they expected you
to turn your own right from the start.

Kirk in HMB, enjoying the Rayl's catalog
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229516 "Adam R. Maxwell" <amaxwell@m...> 2012‑05‑01 Re: turning tool handles
On May 1, 2012, at 07:43 , Kirk Eppler  wrote:

> If its any consolation, the chisels were probably sold that way.  The
> Rayl's 1905 catalog shows them as Buck Bros Extra Long Turning Chisels &
> Gouges, in sizes 1/8" to 2" ($0.25 to 0.90) skews and gouges the same sizes
> ($0.30 to 1.27 each).   Average Length 11"

Well, that's interesting!  I wonder how 11" is measured...if it excludes the
tang, these are shorter than new.  The 2" skew is 12" overall, and the 1-3/4"
gouge is 13" overall.  Both have a good sized burr at the tip of the tang,
but it doesn't appear to be from hammering, and it would have been hard to
get a handle on over it.

thanks,
Adam

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229520 gary may <garyallanmay@y...> 2012‑05‑01 Re: turning tool handles
Hi GGs and KE--- Likely no handles. PNTC's President Racine picked up a
NIB set of L&IJ White Turning chisels from a column-turning shop in OR
(I believe it was)---these tools are massive, ranging from 1/2" wide, or
so, to well over two inches wide, and about 18" long. Or longer. In the
cosmoline, and the L&IJW crate, under a pile of shavings, dust and lathe
parts. Several dozen of 'em, IIRC, the whole arsenal of the time, but no
handles. What a gyp. still, not too terrible---gam in Puget Sound

If you were Einstein's father, we wouldn't have the bomb." Peggy Hill


--- On Tue, 5/1/12, Kirk Eppler  wrote:

 If its any consolation, the chisels were probably sold that
> way.=A0 The Rayl's 1905 catalog shows them as Buck Bros Extra Long
> Turning Chisels & Gouges, in sizes 1/8" to 2" ($0.25 to 0.90) skews
> and gouges the same sizes ($0.30 to 1.27 each).=A0=A0=A0Average
> Length 11"
>
> In their handle section, They have screwdriver, file, gravers,
> carving, shank chisel, socket firmer, tang firmer, Socket framing,
> chisel, Buck Bros Fancy Style Shank Handles (and Socket too),
> Octagon and Round Boxwood and Rosewood Handles.=A0=A0=A0But not
> turning tool handles.=A0 Guess they expected you to turn your own
> right from the start.
>
>
> Kirk in HMB, enjoying the Rayl's catalog
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ: http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>
> OldTools@r... http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------

229522 James Thompson <oldmillrat@m...> 2012‑05‑01 Re: turning tool handles
The length measurement does not include the tang. Nor the handle. Many of my tur
ning tools measure 24" or more in total length.

It is easy to tell the difference between a turning tool and a bench gouge becau
se turning tools do not have bolsters. They don't need one.

On May 1, 2012, at 8:14 AM, Adam R. Maxwell wrote:

> 
> On May 1, 2012, at 07:43 , Kirk Eppler  wrote:
> 
>> If its any consolation, the chisels were probably sold that way.  The
>> Rayl's 1905 catalog shows them as Buck Bros Extra Long Turning Chisels &
>> Gouges, in sizes 1/8" to 2" ($0.25 to 0.90) skews and gouges the same sizes
>> ($0.30 to 1.27 each).   Average Length 11"
> 
> Well, that's interesting!  I wonder how 11" is measured...if it excludes the
> tang, these are shorter than new.  The 2" skew is 12" overall, and the 1-3/4"
> gouge is 13" overall.  Both have a good sized burr at the tip of the tang,
> but it doesn't appear to be from hammering, and it would have been hard to
> get a handle on over it.
> 
> thanks,
> Adam
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
> 
> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
> 
> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
> 
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
> 
> OldTools@r...
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools

------------------------------------------------------------------------

229550 Thomas Conroy <booktoolcutter@y...> 2012‑05‑02 Re: turning tool handles
 Kirk Eppler wrote:
> If its any consolation, the chisels were probably sold that way.=A0
> The Rayl's 1905 catalog shows them as Buck Bros Extra Long Turning
> Chisels...=A0 > Average Length 11" >

and Adam Maxwell replied: "Well, that's interesting!=A0 I wonder how 11"
is measured...if it excludes the tang, these are shorter than new."

I have a reprint of the Buck Bros. 1890 price list, and the page on
"Extra Long C.S. Turning Chisels. No. 21." without handles says: "The 1
inch is 11 inches over all." In measuring the illustration, the straight-
sided part of the blade seems to have been around 6" long and the necked-
in area including tang 5" long.

The page on "Extra Long And Strong C.S. Turning Chisels. No. 23."
without handles says "The 1 inch is 13 inches over all." Measuring the
illustration suggests a length of 8" for the straight-sided part of the
blade, and 5" for the necked-in part plus the tang. Apparently normal
practice in describing chisel length has changed in the last century,
and it used to be overall length of the handleless steel.

The page on handled turning chisels gives no length dimensions; however,
in the illustration the handle looks about as long as the exposed part
of the blade. More specifically, the straight-sided part of the blade
measures, in the drawing, 2-7/16"; the entire exposed part of the blade
measures 2-11/16"; the entire handle measures 3-1/2"; the handle without
the ferrule measure 3-1/4".

 I have a couple of old Buck turning tool handles. One is 8-5/8" long
 overall, of which 9/16" is a brass ferrule; the wood is 1-1/8 inch in
 diameter in the 4" nearest the rounded butt, necking in to 1-1/32"=A0
 and then out again to 1-3/32" near the ferrule, with the ferrule 11/16"
 in diameter. Oddly enough, this handle came to me on a bookbinder's
 finishing tool, which had charred out the end; it is way too big for
 that purpose, so I transferred it to a turning tool, a parting tool
 made from an old Italian foil blade. The ways of handles are strange.

The other Buck handle I have, on a diamond-section parting tool that has
been sharpened down to 4-1/2", is fatter and shorter and seems newer,
but has a similar near-cylindrical shape, a bit less rounded at the
butt. It is 7-15/16" long, of which 1/2" is a brass ferrule. Diameter
for most of the half near the butt is 1-3/16", necking down to 1-1/8" at
2" from the ferrule, and back out to 1-7/32" near the ferrule.

My favorite turning gouges and skews are Charles Buck and Buck Bros.
cast steel, but none of them are in their original handles. I like the
gouge sections better than modern sections, and I do a lot with skews
(but nothing with scrapers). My lathe is a treadle, so they don't go
dull as fast as they wood with a power lathe (and, I confess, I don't
resharpen as often as I should) so I'm not eating the blades up as fast
as power grinding for a power lathe would do.

Tom Conroy

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229564 John Ruth <johnrruth@h...> 2012‑05‑03 RE: turning tool handles
Tom Conroy piqued the curiosity of the Porch with

"a parting tool made from an old Italian foil blade."

Beating your swords into plowshares=2C eh? The is the second use of foil
blades I've seen discussed here=2C the other being replacement bows for
antique bow drills.


John

                                          ------------------------------
                                          ------------------------------
                                          ------------

229614 "Adam R. Maxwell" <amaxwell@m...> 2012‑05‑03 Re: turning tool handles
Thanks for all the replies on handles and Buck Bros. lathe tools in general, bot
h on and off list!  If nothing else, I'm reminded to look for tool catalogs and 
reprints as a source of info.

Here's what I came up with yesterday for a handle.  Hard maple, 18" long, copper
 ferrule:

http://maxwells.smugmug.com/Hobbies/Tools/i-gCLnWJG/0/L/IMG3442-L.jpg

I'm not entirely happy with the aesthetics of it, but I think it'll work.  Now t
o sharpen this sucker up and turn a handle for the skew...

Adam
Port Angeles, WA

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229635 Thomas Conroy <booktoolcutter@y...> 2012‑05‑04 RE: turning tool handles
I think it was the website about pianomakers' tools that was linked to a
while back-- I saw the bit where it mentioned foil blades, and thought
"Great! I'll make a bow saw." Then I looked at the quality of
workmanship and materials in those saws and got scared off. Its not as
if I make pianos and need one.

I haven't fenced for thirty years, but I still have broken foil blades
around, and they are still one of my important sources of steel for
small projects. Broken foils and worn-out files-- only, since I learned
you can resharpen files with citric acid I've even resharpened the files
I bought as raw scrap, and I'm reduced to the ones I had annealed before
learning about citric.

Tom


 John Ruth wrote: "Tom Conroy=A0piqued the curiosity of the Porch with
 'a parting tool made from an old Italian foil blade.' Beating your
 swords into plowshares, eh?=A0 The is the second use of foil blades
 I've seen discussed here, the other being replacement bows for antique
 bow drills."
------------------------------------------------------------------------

229647 "David Erickson" <swtools@s...> 2012‑05‑04 Re: turning tool handles
Adam, I should have posted a couple of weeks ago when you first asked about
Buck lathe chisel handles.  Here are a couple of pictures of a Buck gouge
with the original Buck handle.  The ferrule is oval shaped BTW, which makes
sense considering the wide tang.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/z2jjusk65oy72z2/buck_02.JPG

https://www.dropbox.com/s/teoevice42jbcea/buck_01.JPG

-Dave

Adam says:
>Thanks for all the replies on handles and Buck Bros. lathe tools in
>general, both on and off list!  If nothing else, I'm reminded to look for
>tool catalogs and reprints as a source of info.
>
>Here's what I came up with yesterday for a handle.  Hard maple, 18" long,
>copper ferrule:
>
>http://maxwells.smugmug.com/Hobbies/Tools/i-gCLnWJG/0/L/IMG3442-L.jpg
>
>I'm not entirely happy with the aesthetics of it, but I think it'll work.
>Now to sharpen this sucker up and turn a handle for the skew...
>
>Adam
>Port Angeles, WA

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