Remembering a thread from a week or more ago, I searched the archive but 
didn't turn up anything on this subject (probably my lack of skill at 
forming a decent search argument).

I want to make a tool for measuring inside dimensions.  It must have a 
name but I can't recall it just now.  I've posted a .jpg exported from 
SketchUp at 
(http://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/w469/RHHutchins/BendingBrass.jpg).  
To make this, I need to form the brass fittings.  In the pic you can see 
that I intend to cut (file, scrape, saw) grooves at the locus of the bends.

I need to know from you who have done this if the approach is correct.  
I don't want to waste too much material trying to figure it out by trial 
and error and I'm not too bashful to ask foolish questions.

I also need to know if it is possible to tap brass bar this thin for a 
set screw, and, if so, what thread dimensions I should use.

The brass bar is 1/8" thick and 1/2" wide.

Thanks for any advice you can offer.

Bob Hutchins
Temple, TX, USA

-- 
    \|||/
   ( © © )
ooO_(..)_Ooo_______ _________
_____|_____| _____|___ __|____
___|____|___ __|_____| _____|_
Kilroy Was Here!

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Robert, I don't know for sure about brass but in mild steel 1/8" thk.
bent @ 90 with a 1/32"radius you will gain 0.198" from each bend. In
other words your length will be the total of your four lengths minus
4x0.198". roy

---- Robert Hutchins <rhhutchins@h...> wrote:> Remembering a thread from
a week or more ago, I searched the archive but> didn't turn up anything
on this subject (probably my lack of skill at> forming a decent search
argument).
>> I want to make a tool for measuring inside dimensions. It must have
>> a> name but I can't recall it just now. I've posted a .jpg exported
>> from> SketchUp at> (http://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/w469/RHHutch-
>> ins/BendingBrass.jpg). > To make this, I need to form the brass
>> fittings. In the pic you can see> that I intend to cut (file, scrape,
>> saw) grooves at the locus of the bends. I need to know from you who
>> have done this if the approach is correct. > I don't want to waste
>> too much material trying to figure it out by trial> and error and I'm
>> not too bashful to ask foolish questions. I also need to know if it
>> is possible to tap brass bar this thin for a> set screw, and, if so,
>> what thread dimensions I should use. The brass bar is 1/8" thick and
>> 1/2" wide. Thanks for any advice you can offer. Bob Hutchins
> Temple, TX, USA
>> --> \|||/
>    ( =C2=A9 =C2=A9 ) ooO_(..)_Ooo_______ _________ _____|_____|
>    _____|___ __|____ ___|____|___ __|_____| _____|_ Kilroy Was Here!
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/ OldTools@r...
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools

--
Roy Griggs roygriggs@v...

------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 9:11 PM, Robert Hutchins <rhhutchins@h...>wrote:

>
>
> I want to make a tool for measuring inside dimensions.  It must have a
> name but I can't recall it just now.  I
>

Lee Valley calls it a bar guage

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32585&cat=1,43513,43553

I made my first one with 2 sticks and a pair of rubber bands.  Pointed the
sticks at each end, worked a treat, but kinda hard to hit an exact
measurement.

sorry, no help with bending brass. I have a project that needs it too.

Kirk in HMB
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Robert,Clarification the radius will be an inside radius... IR
1/32"R=0.198"
    1/16"R=0.211"
    2/32"R=0.224"
    3/8"R=0.243"
    4/4"R=0.260" hope this helps roy---- roygriggs@v... wrote:> Robert,
>  I don't know for sure about brass but in mild steel 1/8" thk. bent @
>  90 with a 1/32"radius you will gain 0.198" from each bend. In other
>  words your length will be the total of your four lengths minus
>  4x0.198". roy
>> ---- Robert Hutchins <rhhutchins@h...> wrote:> > Remembering a thread
>> from a week or more ago, I searched the archive but> > didn't turn up
>> anything on this subject (probably my lack of skill at> > forming a
>> decent search argument).
> >> > I want to make a tool for measuring inside dimensions. It must
> >> > have a> > name but I can't recall it just now. I've posted a .jpg
> >> > exported from> > SketchUp at> > (http://i1077.photobucket.com/al-
> >> > bums/w469/RHHutchins/BendingBrass.jpg). > > To make this, I need
> >> > to form the brass fittings. In the pic you can see> > that I
> >> > intend to cut (file, scrape, saw) grooves at the locus of the
> >> > bends. I need to know from you who have done this if the approach
> >> > is correct. > > I don't want to waste too much material trying to
> >> > figure it out by trial> > and error and I'm not too bashful to
> >> > ask foolish questions. I also need to know if it is possible to
> >> > tap brass bar this thin for a> > set screw, and, if so, what
> >> > thread dimensions I should use. The brass bar is 1/8" thick and
> >> > 1/2" wide. Thanks for any advice you can offer. Bob Hutchins
> > Temple, TX, USA
> >> > --> > \|||/
> >    ( =C2=A9 =C2=A9 ) ooO_(..)_Ooo_______ _________ _____|_____|
> >    _____|___ __|____ ___|____|___ __|_____| _____|_ Kilroy Was Here!
> >> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > -------
> > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history,
> > usage, value, location, availability, collectibility, and
> > restoration of traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
> >> > To change your subscription options:
> > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
> >> > To read the FAQ:
> > http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
> >> > OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/ OldTools@r...
> > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>> --
> Roy Griggs roygriggs@v...

--
Roy Griggs roygriggs@v...

------------------------------------------------------------------------

> (http://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/w469/RHHutchins/BendingBrass.jpg).

This is a kind of thing that looks easy, but it isn't.
  Exactly the kind of simple looking thing that 40 ton presses were 
invented for.

At home, I doubt you will get it in one.
I honestly doubt you will get it in three.
Get extra stock to play with.

Try making a buck to form the metal around, and heat the work cherry red.
  Clamp, heat, hammer, and repeat until all the bends are made.
  I would do it whole stock. Stronger.

   Making outside cuts right where the metal is going to want to crack 
in a tight bend, is giving it a head start.
    If you do want to notch it, notch the inside corners,
   heat and bend and then hard silver solder the bends when finished.
     yours Scott
-- 
*******************************
    Scott Grandstaff
    Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
    scottg@s...
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bob, I think Scott is right.

"This is a kind of thing that looks easy, but it isn't...
"At home, I doubt you will get it in one.
"I honestly doubt you will get it in three.
"Get extra stock to play with."

I can't document it, but historically it is my impression that brass as thick as
1/8" would be worked by casting or stock removal, but not by bending. There is
good reason. Brass and bronze workharden very rapidly. If you bend brass, then
the bend site often workhardens before you get to 90 degrees, and then the place
where the brass is bending will move to a spot adjacent to the hard spot. If you
constrain the brass so that it must bend where you want it, the workhardening
will make it brittle and it will snap.To get a reasonably sharp bend where you
want it you normally have to anneal the brass repeatedly. And even then the
final result won't be really good.

I would suggest getting brass thick enough to cut each piece from one block.
Drill the hole and clean it up with files. You could do it with an eggbeater if
you wanted, though I confess that I would prefer to use a dr*ll pr*ss if I had
one. Brass works very sweetly with hand tools, provided the tools' edges are
sharp, sharp, sharp. The result will be cleaner, stronger, and faster.

If you are really committed to bending for this project, see if you can find a
brass designed for bending instead of using general-purpose brass. They must be
out there, though I don't know enough about copper alloys to name or describe
them.

If you already have the brass for the project: well, you will be able to carry
it through if you anneal frequently enough. And it'll be a learning experience,
even if all you learn is to ignore old... persons... like me.

Tom Conroy

------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 4/12/2012 12:38 AM, Kirk Eppler wrote:
> Lee Valley calls it a bar guage
>
> http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32585&cat=1,43513,43553
>
> I made my first one with 2 sticks and a pair of rubber bands.

I made one last year out of wood - no metal. For the "collars" that hold 
the two opposing arms together, I made two pieces that are very much 
like the head on a mortise gauge, with a square hole through the middle, 
sized just right for a snug fit around the two pieces. I plan on 
eventually drilling and threading a hole in those collars, for set 
screws, but for now, the fit is snug enough that it keeps the sticks 
from sliding unless I want them to.

I whipped the thing out in about an hour or two last year when I 
suddenly found the need for it.

- Bill T.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I can also report that two medium size Bulldog paper clips work perfectly  
and hold the sticks tightly.  These clips are extremely useful in the shop  
for small clamping jobs as well.  They are strong, but easy to  manipulate.
 
_http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-7465948/stock-photo-bulldog-paper-clip-on-w
hite-background.html_ 
(http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-7465948/stock-photo-bulldog-paper-clip-on-white-background.html)

 
Cheers,
John
 
John M. Johnston
"There is a fine line between hobby and mental  illness." Dave Barry  

 
In a message dated 4/12/2012 4:33:40 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
w.taggart@v... writes:

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32585&cat=1,43513,43553

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi, Chaps

I made this one just to see if my idea worked, its good for checking
stuffs square.

http://s86.photobucket.com/albums/k115/maddpete/?action=view&current=DS-
C_0236.jpg

http://s86.photobucket.com/albums/k115/maddpete/?action=view&current=DS-
C_0239.jpg

I replaced the wedge with a rosewood one for smoother operation the pine
doweling one was a bit to springy and grabbed the rods.

Pete

Peter Michael Maddex Mad Bad and Dangerous to Know WPS Workplace
Services Nottingham Trent University

-----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-
bounces@r...us.law.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Sgt42RHR@a... Sent: 12
April 2012 12:48 To: oldtools@r... Subject: Re: [OldTools] Bending
Brass Bar Stock

I can also report that two medium size Bulldog paper clips work
perfectly and hold the sticks tightly. These clips are extremely useful
in the shop for small clamping jobs as well. They are strong, but easy
to manipulate.

_http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-7465948/stock-photo-bulldog-paper-clip-
on-w hite-background.html_
(http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-7465948/stock-photo-bulldog-paper-
clip-on-white-background.html)

Cheers, John

John M. Johnston "There is a fine line between hobby and mental
illness." Dave Barry

In a message dated 4/12/2012 4:33:40 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
w.taggart@verizon.net writes:

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32585&cat=1,43513,43553

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bob,

I have a couple of these (one 4 foot Stanley and the other a 10 foot 
Lufkin), but  I have never tried to make one.  If pictures of the brass 
fittings would be of any help, I could send some.   Or stop by the house 
and I'll loan you the short one for ideas.  My wife uses the longer one 
fairly regularly for measuring quilts.  (Obviously not its original 
purpose.)

Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Hutchins" <rhhutchins@h...>
To: <OldTools@r...>
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 11:11 PM
Subject: [OldTools] Bending Brass Bar Stock

 > I want to make a tool for measuring inside dimensions.  It must have 
a
> name but I can't recall it just now.  I've posted a .jpg exported from 
> SketchUp at 
> (http://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/w469/RHHutchins/BendingBrass.jpg). 
> To make this, I need to form the brass fittings.  In the pic you can 
> see that I intend to cut (file, scrape, saw) grooves at the locus of 
> the bends.
>
> I need to know from you who have done this if the approach is correct. 
> I don't want to waste too much material trying to figure it out by 
> trial and error and I'm not too bashful to ask foolish questions.
>
> I also need to know if it is possible to tap brass bar this thin for a 
> set screw, and, if so, what thread dimensions I should use.
>
> The brass bar is 1/8" thick and 1/2" wide.
>
> Thanks for any advice you can offer.
>
> Bob Hutchins
> Temple, TX, USA 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have a 10' one as well (somewhere) with iron fittings. McMaster-Carr
has steel rectangular tubing somewhat close in dimension to what you're
looking for=2C but no brass. -T


> From: dilloworks@s... To: rhhutchins@h...=3B OldTools@r... Subject:
> Re: [OldTools] Bending Brass Bar Stock Date: Thu=2C 12 Apr 2012
> 08:15:44 -0500
> CC:>> Bob=2C
>> I have a couple of these (one 4 foot Stanley and the other a 10 foot>
>> Lufkin)=2C but I have never tried to make one. If pictures of the
>> brass> fittings would be of any help=2C I could send some. Or stop by
>> the house> and I'll loan you the short one for ideas. My wife uses
>> the longer one> fairly regularly for measuring quilts. (Obviously not
>> its original> purpose.) Frank Sronce (Fort Worth Armadillo Works)
>                                         ------------------------------
>                                         ------------------------------
>                                         ------------

On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 4:47 AM, <Sgt42RHR@a...> wrote:

> I can also report that two medium size Bulldog paper clips work perfectly
> and hold the sticks tightly.
>
> _
> http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-7465948/stock-photo-bulldog-paper-clip-on-w
> hite-background.html_
> (
>
http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-7465948/stock-photo-bulldog-paper-clip-on-white-background.html
> )
>

Oh heck, this would have been a HUGE improvement over my rubber bands.
Wish I had thought of that 4 years ago.

Kirk in HMB
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you, all!

As usual, I was over thinking the solution.  I use those big paper clips 
for lots of things including for clamping some glue-ups.   I have a 
supply in all sizes from gigantic to tiny.  They will be an excellent 
solution for making bar gauges in any size needed.

But, I think I really just want to learn how to work brass.  I'm 
thinking that I might want to use brass for some other tinkering.
So, I'm refining the question for those of you who have the experience.

In this drawing 
(http://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/w469/RHHutchins/3versions.jpg), the 
bottom piece was my original concept of the slotting using a square 
profile.  The diagonal lines indicate the axis of the bend and the 
material removed was half the thickness.  The slots are all on the inner 
part of the bend, not the outer.  The middle piece shows adapting the 
slot or groove to a V as recommended.  I set the width dimension at the 
top equal to the thickness of the bar stock and set the depth of the 
groove to 1/2 the thickness.  In the top drawing, I made the depth of 
the groove 3/4 the thickness of the slot.  I'm trying to show what I 
learned - or failed to learn - from your posts.  Please correct any 
misconceptions I've demonstrated.

Again, thank you all for the responses and good advice.

Bob Hutchins
Temple, TX, USA

-- 
    \|||/
   ( © © )
ooO_(..)_Ooo_______ _________
_____|_____| _____|___ __|____
___|____|___ __|_____| _____|_
Kilroy Was Here!

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Another suggestion: don't lay out all the bends, then cut to length, then form
the bends (which would be the way to go on a production run after prototypes);
instead, do just one bend on the end of the full bar before laying out the next
bend. Don't cut the workpiece off the bar until all four bends are cone. Thus,
if you get the spacing or execution wrong, you will have wasted less work and
material before you discover your error, and you'll have a clearer idea of when
and how the error occurred.

Also: make the wood rods after you make the brass clamps. If you are pushing
beyond your experience on the metalwork it will be easier to size the wood to
fit the metal than to size the metal to fit the wood.

Tom Conroy
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bob,
I've been a little busy lately, and misses your original post.
If you decide on cutting a "V" groove in the brass, and bending it up, 
here is a suggestion I might offer which is used to make a bezel setting 
for a square or rectangular gemstone.
I usually do it in about 0.5mm thick gold or platinum. However I have 
done it in brass just like you are doing.
Take two pieces that are long enough to go around 2 sides plus a little 
extra, and do the "V" groove and solder, making an "L" shape in both of 
them, where the long side is slightly longer than than the width of the 
piece of stock going inside, and the short side, the bottom of the "L" 
is just over the thickness of the stock to go through.
Now file carefully the ends of the short lengths square and to length to 
give yourelf a nice clearance. You now have two "L" shaped pieces you 
can place together and hold in position with binding wire, with the long 
sides providing a nice overlap, which is a convienient platform to feed 
in some solder.
Saw the overlap off, file to match the slight radius that is an artifact 
of the first"V" cut and bend. If the solder is close to the colour of 
the base metal, the joints will very alike, and you have avoided the 
problem of getting it to go around the stock. Then do the rest of your 
construction, and cut away part of the collars you just made if they 
have to be a "C" shape, as they are in your picture.
Now that's lots of words to descried what we simply call a double "L" 
bezel gemstone setting.
It is adaptable to other constructions, where you need make a collar 
around something and bending it to fit is a bit of a guessing game.
If it isn't clear from my description, let me know and I will do a 
couple of sketches, or even just take some brass and show it.

If I want to make a piece go all around, cutting mitres out as I go, I 
can show that with a sketch much easier...since I'm such a slow typist.
Will follow up with that technique a little later....However I would 
encourage you to go all around and make a rectangle, and cut the waste 
out, it gets the thing nice and square.
I may be repeating some of these tricks you have heard from others, but 
I have had a virus software deleting messages in my inbox lately, and 
not certain I've read all the posts,

Regards,
Peter
In Melbourne, Australia.

On 13/04/2012 4:59 AM, Robert Hutchins wrote:
> Thank you, all!
>
> As usual, I was over thinking the solution.  I use those big paper 
> clips for lots of things including for clamping some glue-ups.   I 
> have a supply in all sizes from gigantic to tiny.  They will be an 
> excellent solution for making bar gauges in any size needed.
>
> But, I think I really just want to learn how to work brass.  I'm 
> thinking that I might want to use brass for some other tinkering.
> So, I'm refining the question for those of you who have the experience.
>
> In this drawing 
> (http://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/w469/RHHutchins/3versions.jpg), 
> the bottom piece was my original concept of the slotting using a 
> square profile.  The diagonal lines indicate the axis of the bend and 
> the material removed was half the thickness.  The slots are all on the 
> inner part of the bend, not the outer.  The middle piece shows 
> adapting the slot or groove to a V as recommended.  I set the width 
> dimension at the top equal to the thickness of the bar stock and set 
> the depth of the groove to 1/2 the thickness.  In the top drawing, I 
> made the depth of the groove 3/4 the thickness of the slot.  I'm 
> trying to show what I learned - or failed to learn - from your posts.  
> Please correct any misconceptions I've demonstrated.
>
> Again, thank you all for the responses and good advice.
>
> Bob Hutchins
> Temple, TX, USA
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's a lesson. Thanks Peter! Cheers, Wes, (doing it the hard way up
until now.)

On Apr 13, 2012, at 10:19 PM, Peter McBride <peter@p...> wrote:

> You now have two "L" shaped pieces you can place together and hold in
> position with binding wire, with the long sides providing a nice
> overlap, which is a convienient platform to feed in some solder
------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 4/13/2012 10:19 PM, Peter McBride wrote:

Thank you, very much, Peter!

I will give that technique a try - with any luck, next week.

'Er indoors has me working pretty steady on the garden and Spring 
cleaning, at the moment.

Again, thank you for a very clear and understandable set of instructions.

> Bob,
> I've been a little busy lately, and misses your original post.
> If you decide on cutting a "V" groove in the brass, and bending it up, 
> here is a suggestion I might offer which is used to make a bezel 
> setting for a square or rectangular gemstone.
> I usually do it in about 0.5mm thick gold or platinum. However I have 
> done it in brass just like you are doing.
> Take two pieces that are long enough to go around 2 sides plus a 
> little extra, and do the "V" groove and solder, making an "L" shape in 
> both of them, where the long side is slightly longer than than the 
> width of the piece of stock going inside, and the short side, the 
> bottom of the "L" is just over the thickness of the stock to go through.
> Now file carefully the ends of the short lengths square and to length 
> to give yourelf a nice clearance. You now have two "L" shaped pieces 
> you can place together and hold in position with binding wire, with 
> the long sides providing a nice overlap, which is a convienient 
> platform to feed in some solder.
> Saw the overlap off, file to match the slight radius that is an 
> artifact of the first"V" cut and bend. If the solder is close to the 
> colour of the base metal, the joints will very alike, and you have 
> avoided the problem of getting it to go around the stock. Then do the 
> rest of your construction, and cut away part of the collars you just 
> made if they have to be a "C" shape, as they are in your picture.
> Now that's lots of words to descried what we simply call a double "L" 
> bezel gemstone setting.
> It is adaptable to other constructions, where you need make a collar 
> around something and bending it to fit is a bit of a guessing game.
> If it isn't clear from my description, let me know and I will do a 
> couple of sketches, or even just take some brass and show it.
>
> If I want to make a piece go all around, cutting mitres out as I go, I 
> can show that with a sketch much easier...since I'm such a slow typist.
> Will follow up with that technique a little later....However I would 
> encourage you to go all around and make a rectangle, and cut the waste 
> out, it gets the thing nice and square.
> I may be repeating some of these tricks you have heard from others, 
> but I have had a virus software deleting messages in my inbox lately, 
> and not certain I've read all the posts,
>
> Regards,
> Peter
> In Melbourne, Australia.
>
> On 13/04/2012 4:59 AM, Robert Hutchins wrote:
>> Thank you, all!
>>
>> As usual, I was over thinking the solution.  I use those big paper 
>> clips for lots of things including for clamping some glue-ups.   I 
>> have a supply in all sizes from gigantic to tiny.  They will be an 
>> excellent solution for making bar gauges in any size needed.
>>
>> But, I think I really just want to learn how to work brass.  I'm 
>> thinking that I might want to use brass for some other tinkering.
>> So, I'm refining the question for those of you who have the experience.
>>
>> In this drawing 
>> (http://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/w469/RHHutchins/3versions.jpg), 
>> the bottom piece was my original concept of the slotting using a 
>> square profile.  The diagonal lines indicate the axis of the bend and 
>> the material removed was half the thickness.  The slots are all on 
>> the inner part of the bend, not the outer.  The middle piece shows 
>> adapting the slot or groove to a V as recommended.  I set the width 
>> dimension at the top equal to the thickness of the bar stock and set 
>> the depth of the groove to 1/2 the thickness.  In the top drawing, I 
>> made the depth of the groove 3/4 the thickness of the slot.  I'm 
>> trying to show what I learned - or failed to learn - from your 
>> posts.  Please correct any misconceptions I've demonstrated.
>>
>> Again, thank you all for the responses and good advice.
>>
>> Bob Hutchins
>> Temple, TX, USA
>>
>

-- 
Bob Hutchins
Temple, TX, USA

    \|||/
   ( © © )
ooO_(..)_Ooo_______ _________
_____|_____| _____|___ __|____
___|____|___ __|_____| _____|_
Kilroy Was Here!

------------------------------------------------------------------------

This doesn't accomplish your bending brass goal, but what about putting
four pieces together metal dovetail style, like a dovetailed infill
plane. Probably harder than bending brass, but its a heck of a skill to
pick up. You could even mix steel and brass this way if that suited
your tastes.

I built a dovetail marker by dovetailing two pieces of 1/8 mild steel
together in such a way. I just followed some of the various online
directions for building an infill plane.

http://galootcentral.com/components/cpgalbums/userpics/10433/IMG_0412_-
resize.jpg

If you don't want to do 4 joints, you could bend 3 sides and then
dovetail the fourth side onto the other three.

D?

<snip>
>>> In this drawing (http://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/w469/RHHutchin-
>>> s/3versions.jpg), the bottom piece was my original concept of the
>>> slotting using a square profile. =A0The diagonal lines indicate the
>>> axis of the bend and the material removed was half the thickness.
>>> =A0The slots are all on the inner part of the bend, not the outer.
>>> =A0The middle piece shows adapting the slot or groove to a V as
>>> recommended. =A0I set the width dimension at the top equal to the
>>> thickness of the bar stock and set the depth of the groove to 1/2
>>> the thickness. =A0In the top drawing, I made the depth of the groove
>>> 3/4 the thickness of the slot. =A0I'm trying to show what I learned
>>> - or failed to learn - from your posts. =A0Please correct any
>>> misconceptions I've demonstrated.
>>>
>>> Again, thank you all for the responses and good advice.
>>>
>>> Bob Hutchins Temple, TX, USA
>>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Short version: I used a tip from the Porch to jury rig a bar gauge. It
worked great, and helped me out.

Long version: John Johnston said "I can also report that two medium size
Bulldog paper clips work perfectly and hold the sticks tightly.=A0 These
clips are extremely useful in the shop for small clamping jobs as well."

Some years ago I bookshelved most of a room with 1 x 8 and 1 x 10 pine,
just nailed together but with crown and base moldings. Not fine work,
but not completely contemptible, and it makes a pleasant room. Of course
I ran out of shelf space quickly, only to be expected with books, and
from time to time added a shelf or two in space I originally ignored.
I'm desperate for space now (as usual) and may be driven some day to get
rid of a book [I pause to make various signs and ceremonies to ward off
bad luck and evil events], and the last bit of free wall is over a rolling-
doors closet, room for two 5 foot long shelves. But to shelve that area
in harmony with the rest of the room I would have to use about 35 feet
of board, half of it for uprights to hold the shelves overhead, and to
do this for the sake of a gain of ten running feet sat badly with my
frugality. Yet I am desperate for shelf space.

Last week, walking home in pouring rain from a bread run, I went by a
pile of shelves and shelf supports, left out with a "Free if you can use
them" note. I don't drive, I have a bad knee and can't lift like I used
to, and I was twenty minutes walk from home. Still, I accepted the
misery and walked the boards home, three trips and ashamed to need that
many, and a fourth to bring home a nice little dresser I came across
three blocks out. Dunno why anyone chose that weather to throw out good
furniture, unless it was the furniture that brought on the rain. I got
the two 9' uprights I needed, a 6', and two 4'. The shelves were all
lipped around with about 1" x 1/4" trim.

First step in shelving was to take off the lips, and somewhere during
the process I realized that they would be perfect for a bar gauge
following John's tip. I have dozens of binder clips around (the same
kind John calls "Bulldogs"), they are essential for rebuilding book
corners, and the large size was a perfect fit. For most of the library
shelving I measured with a yard stick or a steel tape, and both were (in
their own ways) cumbersome and inaccurate. The bar gauge was faster and
far easier. Especially for getting the height of the room and
transferring it directly to the long boards. The binder clips worked so
well that I'm not even tempted to make a set of furniture to replace
them. O Galoots, cast aside your inches and milimeters! Free yourself
from the tyranny of numbers! The time of direct measurement has been,
but now has come again!

The Porch is a great place. Thanks, John.

Tom Conroy

By the way, if anyone is interested the metal adjustable shelf supports
are going to be used with offcut boards in back corners for CVDs and
CDs. The new shelf is about half built; I have to go out for nails,
screws, and one more 5' board. The interesting problem is that 3/4"
thick bookshelves sag badly on a run of over 2-1/2 feet and I have a 5"
run. What I'm going to do is to have 1x4s or 2x4s across the top of the
unit, behind the crown molding, and basically to suspend the shelves
from these. The central support boards halfway along the 5' run, which
would normally support the run by compression and be lightly nailed in
place, will instead be sccrewed in place and will support the shelves by
tension. A nailed-on backboard should also help.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I know that it may be inappropriate to quite Norm Abrams on this forum,
but, in his book titled, "Measure Twice, Cut Once," he quotes his own
father and states that "the most accurate way to measure, is not to measure
at all."  He talks about techniques such as what Tom describes and/or,
whenever possible, marking the work piece in place.  When doing trim
carpentry, I think this is essential for good fitting work.  Also, things
like using jigs or stop blocks to ensure pieces are identical in length.
Using a bevel gauge, marking gauge, mortice gauge, story stick, calipers,
etc. are all examples that we all  use quite regularly to avoid actually
measuring things.  I personally think that a tape measure, in many cases is
the most inaccurate method.  For those times when I must measure, if I can,
I use a 6 ft folding rule religiously.  The kind with the little brass
sliding extension is an essential part of my tool kit.

Doc
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Okay, don't "quite" Norm, just "quote" him! And, it was a good read,
too! Thanks.

Archie


________________________________
 From: John Holladay <docholladay0820@g...> To: Thomas Conroy
 <booktoolcutter@y...oo.com>
Cc: Sgt42RHR@a...; oldtools@r... Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 7:31 AM
    Subject: Re: [OldTools] Re: Bending Brass Bar Stock

I know that it may be inappropriate to quite Norm Abrams on this forum,
but, in his book titled, "Measure Twice, Cut Once," he quotes his own
father and states that "the most accurate way to measure, is not to
measure at all."=A0 He talks about techniques such as what Tom describes
and/or, whenever possible, marking the work piece in place.=A0 When
doing trim carpentry, I think this is essential for good fitting
work.=A0 Also, things like using jigs or stop blocks to ensure pieces
are identical in length. Using a bevel gauge, marking gauge, mortice
gauge, story stick, calipers, etc. are all examples that we all=A0 use
quite regularly to avoid actually measuring things.=A0 I personally
think that a tape measure, in many cases is the most inaccurate
method.=A0 For those times when I must measure, if I can, I use a 6 ft
folding rule religiously.=A0 The kind with the little brass sliding
extension is an essential part of my tool kit.

Doc
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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GGs: Just saw Chris Schwartz on WWR with Roy, making a 'layout square" I
think he called it---an super-light A-Frame try square of wood like many
trades used in the old days, I think tailors and signmakers used them
especially---his was about 16", and equilateral---anyway, he measured
nothing, saying "Measurement is the enemy of precision." I loved it! He
still used the stale old 'flop the square along a straight edge and
compare' method of checking for square, but making it his way, you make
the square, then square it, and how ever you square it, it's cool. Will
I ever make one? Sure I will. Tomorrow, maybe. best to all galoots
everywhere; gam If you were Einstein's father, we wouldn't have the
bomb." Peggy Hill

--- On Tue, 4/17/12, John Holladay <docholladay0820@g...> wrote:

> From: John Holladay <docholladay0820@g...>
quite Norm Abrams on this forum,
> but, in his book titled, "Measure Twice, Cut Once," he quotes his own
> father and states that "the most accurate way to measure, is not to
> measure at all."=A0 He talks about techniques such as what Tom
> describes and/or, whenever possible, marking the work piece in
> place.=A0 When doing trim carpentry, I think this is essential for
> good fitting work.=A0
------------------------------------------------------------------------