Galoots Assembled,
 
I am making a 20" wide, 13" deep, 16" tall through dovetailed box that will 
 have a floating bottom let into a 1/4" x 1/4" groove running around the 
bottom  of the box (as in the bottom of a drawer).  I plan to use a plow plane 
to  work the groove into which the edge of the bottom will fit. 
 
 In the space between awake and asleep last night, it came to me that  
there is going to be a hole at the corners where the groove exits the end of the

 sides.  As this box will be painted, it will be easy to fashion a plug to  
fill any void visible from the outside.  
 
My question is how does one avoid this problem if, for example, one is  
making a box/carcase that is not painted?
 
Thank you for your help.
 
Amateurishly,
John
 
John M. Johnston
"There is a fine line between hobby and mental  illness." Dave Barry
------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 5:14 AM, <Sgt42RHR@a...> wrote:

>
> I am making a ..... through dovetailed box that will  have a floating
> bottom let into a 1/4" x 1/4" groove running around the bottom  of the box
> (as in the bottom of a drawer).  I plan to use a plow plane to  work the
> groove into which the edge of the bottom will fit.
>
> ......it came to me that there is going to be a hole at the corners where
> the groove exits the end of the  sides.  As this box will be painted, it
> will be easy to fashion a plug to fill any void visible from the outside.
>
> My question is how does one avoid this problem if, for example, one is
> making a box/carcase that is not painted?
>

Stopped Dado, well planned as to its location relative to the dovetails.
Made this misteak on my first ever box, I keep it around to remind me not
to do that again.

Kirk in HMB
------------------------------------------------------------------------

"In the space between awake and asleep last night, it came to me that
there is going to be a hole at the corners where the groove exits the end
of the
sides.  ......  My question is how does one avoid this problem if, for
example, one is
making a box/carcase that is not painted?"
OldTools@r...
http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools

John,

I think that most commonly, this would be handled in this way.  1)  For two
of the sides to the box, space the dovetails so that the mating piece will
cover the groove in the adjacent side.  2) For the other 2 sides, one would
have to make what is called a stopped dado, meaning it does not go all the
way through to the end.  Usind a plow plane, the only way I can think of to
do this would be to drill a hole with diameter the size of the groove (not
all the way through of course), then perhpaps use a router plane equipped
with a fence to cut the dado/groove.  At least that is the method that I
would try.

I have also seen people simply glue in a plug at the end of two of the
pieces, attempting to closely match woodgrain (should not be difficult
since only the end grain will be visible) then assemble the project.  After
thinking more about it, this is really what I would probably do.

In a larger box (such as a toolbolx) one might have the option of still
using the plow plane, but sounds like the sides of your project may not be
long enough to allow for that.

Doc

-- 
John Holladay
DocHolladay0820@g...
205-229-8484
------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 2 Mar 2012, at 13:14, Sgt42RHR@a... wrote:
>> I am making a 20" wide, 13" deep, 16" tall through dovetailed box
>> that will> have a floating bottom let into a 1/4" x 1/4" groove
>> running around the> bottom of the box (as in the bottom of a drawer).
>> I plan to use a plow plane> to work the groove into which the edge of
>> the bottom will fit.>> In the space between awake and asleep last
>> night, it came to me that =20
> there is going to be a hole at the corners where the groove exits the
> end of the> sides. As this box will be painted, it will be easy to
> fashion a plug to > fill any void visible from the outside. >> My
> question is how does one avoid this problem if, for example, one is >
> making a box/carcase that is not painted?

Mitred shouldered dovetails are a plough plane-friendly joinery option.

Also:

Mitered shouldered dovetails are a plow plane-friendly joinery option.

Depending on where in the world you're reading this :)

'Course, if you don't fancy the mitred look that's another matter, but
'tis an option that I throw into the ring for consideration.

Cheers, Alf Bi-lingual lurker, still in Cornwall,
GB.--------------------------------------------------------------
----------

On Mar 2, 2012, at 06:20 , Al Frampton wrote:

> Mitred shouldered dovetails are a plough plane-friendly joinery option.

What Alf said, in either spelling :).  Also, you can use a thin tail and
shorter pins, which hopefully makes sense in this series of photos:

http://gallery.me.com/amaxwell#100207

This was a practice joint that I cut, and it shows the mitred option and
the thin tail option I mentioned above.  The latter requires working
with two baselines, and forgetting that can cause much consternation
(DAMHIKT).

All grooves here were cut with a Stanley #45, and are not stopped.  This
was the end product after a few of those practice pieces in pine:

http://gallery.me.com/amaxwell#100103/IMG_4144&bgcolor=black

hth,
Adam

------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Mar 2, 2012, at 10:02 AM, Adam R. Maxwell wrote:

>  This was the end product after a few of those practice pieces
>  in pine:
>> http://gallery.me.com/amaxwell#100103/IMG_4144&bgcolor=black

Adam

Very clever solution, and it is hardly noticeable in the end result.
Seems to have a high error factor for someone of my concentration, but
worth giving a shot.

Ed Minch

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cutting a stopped dado is one of the rare instances where the powered
option (router table) is simple and the hand tool option is difficult.  For
a painted box, I would cut a through groove with the plow plane and plug
it.   As someone else suggested, a mitered dovetail is an elegant and
relatively simple solution, but with a painted box it really makes little
difference visually.

Ken Shepard

On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 8:14 AM, <Sgt42RHR@a...> wrote:

> Galoots Assembled,
>
> I am making a 20" wide, 13" deep, 16" tall through dovetailed box that will
>  have a floating bottom let into a 1/4" x 1/4" groove running around the
> bottom  of the box (as in the bottom of a drawer).  I plan to use a plow
> plane
> to  work the groove into which the edge of the bottom will fit.
>
>  In the space between awake and asleep last night, it came to me that
> there is going to be a hole at the corners where the groove exits the end
> of the
>  sides.  As this box will be painted, it will be easy to fashion a plug to
> fill any void visible from the outside.
>
> My question is how does one avoid this problem if, for example, one is
> making a box/carcase that is not painted?
>
> Thank you for your help.
>
> Amateurishly,
> John
>
> John M. Johnston
> "There is a fine line between hobby and mental  illness." Dave Barry
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>
> OldTools@r...
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Mar 2, 2012, at 7:16, Ed Minch <ruby@m...> wrote:

>> Very clever solution, and it is hardly noticeable in the end result. Seems to
have a high error factor for someone of my concentration, but worth giving a
shot.

IMHO the thin tail is John's best option, since it's relatively easy and it'll
be painted anyway. It's not my idea, though; St Roy shows it (and the mitred
version) in this episode or the second part:

http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/video/2800/2802.html

If I remember right, it dates back to mid 19th century, anyway. 

Adam
Just say (tmPL) if you stop your grooves, your ideal router probably has a tail

------------------------------------------------------------------------

<Sgt42RHR@a...> writes:
>My question is how does one avoid this problem if, for example, one is  
>making a box/carcase that is not painted?

In addition to all of the great suggestions so far, you could also do a
half-blind with a half-tail at the bottom. The groove runs out through the
half-tail on the tailboard but is covered by the half-blind portion, where
that piece is just wasted out where the groove would be anyway.

It might look a little strange, depending on your taste. There was a recent
episode of St. Roy's show where he talked about this somewhat. I guess you
could put moulding around it, if that's your thing.

When I have to do a stopped groove, I usually initially plow whatever I can
first, then use a chisel and router plane (with fence) the rest of the way.

When I'm doing drawers, I plow straight through everything except on the
front, since no one ever sees any of the stuff on the rear. It also makes
it easier to slip the bottom in during glue-up. But boxes are another
story.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

> My question is how does one avoid this problem if, for example, one is
> making a box/carcase that is not painted?

It took some thought on my part, but I found I could hide the grooves
by changing the tails on either side of the board and then
*remembering* to cut them the way I'd marked them.  Since ASCII art is
too time consuming, I googled *dovetail hiding groove*, and found
these nice illustrations.

http://www.geoffswoodwork.co.uk/dovetail%20sides.htm

Enjoy the weekend,
cur
------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 3/2/2012 8:14 AM, Sgt42RHR@a... wrote:

>  In the space between awake and asleep last night, it came to me that
>  there is going to be a hole at the corners where the groove exits
>  the end of the sides. As this box will be painted, it will be easy
>  to fashion a plug to fill any void visible from the outside.
>
>  My question is how does one avoid this problem if, for example, one
>  is making a box/carcase that is not painted?
>

But wasn't this supposed to be an ice box?
You'll need drain holes anyways, John.
Don't fight it, embrace it.
I know, wrong again.  No shop for me tonight...

-- 
Darrell LaRue
Oakville ON
Wood Hoarder, Blade Sharpener, and Occasional Tool User

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Someone else will have answered by now - but as the slot is at the 
bottom - you mitre the bottommost part of each side/end.  Dovetails stop 
where mitres begin.

Richard Wilson
Yorkshireman Galoot
in springtime Northumberland

On 02/03/2012 13:14, Sgt42RHR@a... wrote:
>
> there is going to be a hole at the corners where the groove exits the end of
the
>   sides.  As this box will be painted, it will be easy to fashion a plug to
> fill any void visible from the outside.
>
> My question is how does one avoid this problem if, for example, one is
> making a box/carcase that is not painted?
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------