I stopped at the Shell station this morning on the way to work. When I
went toward the door to go inside I recognized an odor. Next to the door
was a pile of firewood. They were marked $5.00 a bundle. The bundles
were made up of offcuts from a local lumber mill. There on the pallet
was a solid cube of clear walnut blanks 1 1/2=E2=80=9D thick, 8 to
10=E2=80=9D wide and 15 to 20=E2=80=9D long. I was in a hurry but I
bought a bundle and put it in the back of the car.I=E2=80=99m leaving a
little early in the morning. I=E2=80=99ll have to find someplace to put
the wood in my little econobox car. The one bundle filled the
hatchback.The wood came from the Augusta Lumber Mill. That=E2=80=99s
just a few miles down the road from my house. I=E2=80=99ll have to check
it out this weekend.

Dave aka Old Sneelock dnighswander@b...
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dave=2C Having recently resumed participation in OLDTOOLS=2C which I
joined in the 1990's=2C I'm not sure how long you've been "on The List".
We have a tradition that you may or may not be familiar with regarding
expression of admiration and/or envy of other member's scrounging
efforts. So=2C in order to prevent any misunderstandings and hurt
feelings=2C I'm NOT going to tell you in the tradional OLDTOOLS way=2C
but let's just say that you made a MAJOR score of inexpensive walnut and
you can be really=2C really proud of yourself and the rest of us are
green with envy. That's probably a lifetime supply with enough spare to
use as "trade goods" to swap for other wood or tools. John Ruth
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-

Aw, c'mon. Give the guy a hearty you suck. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 22, 2012, at 9:49 AM, John Ruth <johnrruth@h...> wrote:

> 
> Dave,
> 
> Having recently resumed participation in OLDTOOLS, which I joined in the
1990's, I'm not sure how long you've been "on The List".
> 
> We have a tradition that you may or may not be familiar with regarding
expression of admiration and/or envy of other member's scrounging efforts.
> 
> So, in order to prevent any misunderstandings and hurt feelings, I'm NOT going
to tell you in the tradional OLDTOOLS way, but let's just say that you made a
MAJOR score of inexpensive walnut and you can be really, really proud of
yourself and the rest of us are green with envy.
> 
> That's probably a lifetime supply with enough spare to use as "trade goods" to
swap for other wood or tools.
> 
> John Ruth                          
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
> 
> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
> 
> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
> 
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
> 
> OldTools@r...
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dave,

So, where exactly is this Shell Station? I'm up for a road trip....

Zach
--
Zachary Dillinger The Eaton County Joinery www.theeatoncountyjoinery.com
517-231-3374

On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 12:49 PM, John Ruth <johnrruth@h...> wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
> Having recently resumed participation in OLDTOOLS, which I joined in
> the 1990's, I'm not sure how long you've been "on The List".
>
> We have a tradition that you may or may not be familiar with regarding
> expression of admiration and/or envy of other member's scrounging
> efforts.
>
> So, in order to prevent any misunderstandings and hurt feelings,
> I'm NOT going to tell you in the tradional OLDTOOLS way, but let's
> just say that you made a MAJOR score of inexpensive walnut and you
> can be really, really proud of yourself and the rest of us are
> green with envy.
>
> That's probably a lifetime supply with enough spare to use as "trade
> goods" to swap for other wood or tools.
>
> John Ruth =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0
---------------------------------------------------------------------
> --- OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ: http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>
> OldTools@r... http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Zachary=2C You don't really expect him to reveal the location of the
goose that lays golden eggs=2C do you? I'll bet it's not even a Shell
station. <WINK!> I'll also bet that he'd never going to buy gas anywhere
else=2C EVER=2C for as long as that sawmill stays open or the end of his
life=2C whichever comes first. I re-read the OP. The slabs are over an
inch thick!!! Oh! Oh! I foresee a riot if the Galoots ever show up en
masse. John Ruth
                                          ------------------------------
                                          ------------------------------
                                          ------------

Ha, you're probably right, but I know Dave. He's been to my shop, and we
are both Michiganders. I can't imagine he'd mislead me.... right Dave?
--
Zachary Dillinger The Eaton County Joinery www.theeatoncountyjoinery.com
517-231-3374

On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 1:29 PM, John Ruth <johnrruth@h...> wrote:
>
> Zachary,
>
> You don't really expect him to reveal the location of the goose
> that lays golden eggs, do you? =A0I'll bet it's not even a Shell
> station. <WINK!>
>
> I'll also bet that he'd never going to buy gas anywhere else, EVER,
> for as long as that sawmill stays open or the end of his life,
> whichever comes first.
>
> I re-read the OP. The slabs are over an inch thick!!! Oh! Oh! I
> foresee a riot if the Galoots ever show up en masse.
>
> John Ruth =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0
=A0------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------ OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand
> tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history,
> usage, value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration
> of traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ: http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>
> OldTools@r... http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think you should explain the toxicity of walnut to them and impress upon 
them the
unsuitability of walnut as inside firewood. Use words like poison, irritant, 
lawsuit-
waiting-to-happen etc. Then offer to dispose of it all for them at a 
reasonable price.
Tell them you have connections at a hazardous waste dump so you can give 
them a price
break for hauling it away.

It's the Galoot way. That's what Scott would do anyway.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Dave Nighswander" <wishingstarfarm663@m...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 9:48 PM
To: <oldtools@r...>
Subject: [OldTools] Walnut slabs $0.25/bd ft

> I stopped at the Shell station this morning on the way to work. When I 
> went toward the door to go inside I recognized an odor. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Never in a million years Zach.

Shell Station, I-94, Exit 85, Galesburg, Michigan.

Just have to keep your eyes open.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Zachary Dillinger
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 1:32 PM
To: John Ruth
Cc: oldtools@r...
Subject: Re: [OldTools] Walnut slabs $0.25/bd ft

Ha, you're probably right, but I know Dave. He's been to my shop, and
we are both Michiganders. I can't imagine he'd mislead me.... right
Dave?
--
Zachary Dillinger
The Eaton County Joinery
www.theeatoncountyjoinery.com
517-231-3374

On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 1:29 PM, John Ruth <johnrruth@h...> wrote:
>
> Zachary,
>
> You don't really expect him to reveal the location of the goose that lays 
> golden eggs, do you?  I'll bet it's not even a Shell station. <WINK!>
>
> I'll also bet that he'd never going to buy gas anywhere else, EVER, for as 
> long as that sawmill stays open or the end of his life, whichever comes 
> first.
>
> I re-read the OP. The slabs are over an inch thick!!! Oh! Oh! I foresee a 
> riot if the Galoots ever show up en masse.
>
> John Ruth
>                                         
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>
> OldTools@r...
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh come on John. I expect to be treated like the rest of the group.
From: John RuthSent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 12:49 PM To:
wishingstarfarm663@m... ; oldtools@r...Subject: RE: [OldTools] Walnut
slabs $0.25/bd ft

Dave, Having recently resumed participation in OLDTOOLS, which I
joined in the 1990's, I'm not sure how long you've been "on The
List". We have a tradition that you may or may not be familiar with
regarding expression of admiration and/or envy of other member's
scrounging efforts. So, in order to prevent any misunderstandings
and hurt feelings, I'm NOT going to tell you in the tradional
OLDTOOLS way, but let's just say that you made a MAJOR score of
inexpensive walnut and you can be really, really proud of yourself
and the rest of us are green with envy. That's probably a lifetime
supply with enough spare to use as "trade goods" to swap for other
wood or tools. John
Ruth--------------------------------------------------------------
----------

>From Dave Nighswander--

>I stopped at the Shell station this morning on the way to work. When I
>went toward the door to go inside I recognized an odor. Next to the
>door was a pile of firewood. They were marked >$5.00 a bundle. The
>bundles were made up of offcuts from a local lumber mill.

Focus here, guys. The essence of this find isn't the gas station. It's
the last three words above-- "local lumber mill."

1.  Find it.

2.  Go there and talk to the owner. About half of every tree that goes
    to a lumber mill comes out as waste. The part that isn't waste
    becomes lumber. There's no way to lose.

PK Who got about 5 cords of firewood from my lumber mill last year.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wish I was headed to Lansing this weekend! Congrudgulations. Wes

On Feb 22, 2012, at 4:54 PM, "Dave Nighswander"
<wishingstarfarm663@m...> wrote:

> Never in a million years Zach.
>> Shell Station, I-94, Exit 85, Galesburg, Michigan. Just have to keep
>> your eyes open.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Phil Koontz commented on Dave Nighswander's post--

> 2.  Go there and talk to the owner.  About half of every tree that
> goes to a lumber mill comes out as waste.   The part that isn't waste
> becomes lumber.  There's no way to lose.

Its often even worse than that.  The final  recovery from a modern Australian
mill sawing best quality hardwood logs for solid timber pieces is 25-27%.  The
other 73-75% is lost in sapwood slabs, kerf sawdust, shrinkage during air and
kiln drying, and then the loss during machining and docking to size.  This is a
modern, mechanised mill.   Good softwood mills can do slightly better, but even
they won't get to Phil's half.

Small family operations can get a marginally higher recovery because they don't
have the capital cost of the equipment to support and so can fiddle around
re-cutting the off-cuts which would be wasted in a larger "more efficient
operation".  Thats where items such as surveyor's pegs and garden stakes are
produced, but its time consuming work.

This low recovery is one reason why engineered timber products made up by
laminating layers of rotary peeled "veneer" and re-sawing the composite block
are gaining in popularity.  

The second is the recovery of veneer is close to 70% of the input feed-stock and
lower quality feed-stock can be used.

A third is that an Australian 6" or 8" x 2" hardwood beam takes approximately 2
years to get from tree to usable product.  A beam of these dimensions, sawn from
a huge sheet of oriented grain laminations 2" thick can be used 2 DAYS after
being a tree, and is stronger and more stable than the natural product.

Which is all by way of saying: In my experience if you can find a saw-mill
sawing species you have a use for, and strike up a relationship of some sort
with the operator there is likely to be heaps of material available cheap which
will yield high quality timber pieces of a size most of us would use in small to
medium projects.  Sawmillers know this, but it doesn't make economic sense for
them to chase the last few percent.  So they sell their "waste" as firewood or
put it through the chipper for boiler fuel, or as a step in paper-making.

US/Canada  recovery figures may differ, but I doubt that they would be much
better.  The wastage is the inevitable result of turning a (more or less)
cylindrical column of wood into a pile of square-cornered parallel edged planks
and beams.  Its quite depressing when you think of it.

Regards,

Tony B
Hobart Tasmania
preparing for the post-harvest waste burning season and the inevitable air
quality complaints....

------------------------------------------------------------
This email was sent from Netspace Webmail: http://www.netspace.net.au

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last time I was up at Butch Crocker's place......
   I would tell you all the full tale of Butch Crocker,
  but no one would believe it.

   He was pulling glistening lovely clear sugar pine molding stock, at 
full 16'6", off his mill, in the pounding rain.
  There were old growth logs of many species up to 8' diameter, nothing 
smaller than 4'+, lined and piled up everywhere around the mill area.

   You drive past about 400 log truck loads of "firewood" logs he also 
sells uncut, to get there.
   $250 a full log truck load, delivered. This is all road construction 
cleanup and not all lumber quality, but most of it would be if you had a 
small mill, were accepting for smaller stock, and took your time.

  We talked as he worked, long beautiful 2x6 sugar pine feeding its way 
back to him from fresh off the mill.
  He hooked a thumb at his "boneyard" pile that was so shockingly 
impressive I couldn't even dig into it.
   6 x 12 x 10' beams with a crooked end where a big knot was? Or a 
little wane along one side?
   Pile it.
  Oak, madrone, VG fir or sugar pine? Even some Brewer's spruce that 
only grows on one mountain pass in the world?
   Any size or shape with any defect at all that made it unsuitable for 
at least an 8' plank?
   Pile it.
  50' across and 15' high haystack of everything.
Told me to please take all I wanted.

   Butch sells rough and wet, straight from the mill,
  but otherwise near perfect lumber, for 400 a thousand bf.  Your choice.
   He will sell his logs if you'd rather, but the price is the same.

    This is not a grizzled, bitter, unpleasant human being.
  Butch Crocker is so instantly and obviously and innocently saintlike 
on the hoof, that you are fiercely compelled to work around to better 
watch his back, from the second you lay eyes on him.
   He is the real treasure of the Klamath River valley.
Makes me look like a hardened psychotic killer.
   yours Scott

-- 
*******************************
    Scott Grandstaff
    Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
    scottg@s...
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sounds like someone that the world could use a lot more of to me.

Great story too.

Doc
On Feb 23, 2012 2:02 PM, "scott grandstaff" <scottg@s...> wrote:

>
> Last time I was up at Butch Crocker's place......
>  I would tell you all the full tale of Butch Crocker,
>  but no one would believe it.
>
>  He was pulling glistening lovely clear sugar pine molding stock, at full
> 16'6", off his mill, in the pounding rain.
>  There were old growth logs of many species up to 8' diameter, nothing
> smaller than 4'+, lined and piled up everywhere around the mill area.
>
>  You drive past about 400 log truck loads of "firewood" logs he also sells
> uncut, to get there.
>  $250 a full log truck load, delivered. This is all road construction
> cleanup and not all lumber quality, but most of it would be if you had a
> small mill, were accepting for smaller stock, and took your time.
>
>  We talked as he worked, long beautiful 2x6 sugar pine feeding its way
> back to him from fresh off the mill.
>  He hooked a thumb at his "boneyard" pile that was so shockingly
> impressive I couldn't even dig into it.
>  6 x 12 x 10' beams with a crooked end where a big knot was? Or a little
> wane along one side?
>  Pile it.
>  Oak, madrone, VG fir or sugar pine? Even some Brewer's spruce that only
> grows on one mountain pass in the world?
>  Any size or shape with any defect at all that made it unsuitable for at
> least an 8' plank?
>  Pile it.
>  50' across and 15' high haystack of everything.
> Told me to please take all I wanted.
>
>  Butch sells rough and wet, straight from the mill,
>  but otherwise near perfect lumber, for 400 a thousand bf.  Your choice.
>  He will sell his logs if you'd rather, but the price is the same.
>
>   This is not a grizzled, bitter, unpleasant human being.
>  Butch Crocker is so instantly and obviously and innocently saintlike on
> the hoof, that you are fiercely compelled to work around to better watch
> his back, from the second you lay eyes on him.
>  He is the real treasure of the Klamath River valley.
> Makes me look like a hardened psychotic killer.
>  yours Scott
>
> --
> *********************************
>   Scott Grandstaff
>   Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
>   scottg@s...
>  
http://www.snowcrest.net/**kitty/sgrandstaff/<http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/>
>  
http://www.snowcrest.net/**kitty/hpages/index.html<http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html>
>
> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
> ------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
>
http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/**mailman/listinfo/oldtools<http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools>
>
> To read the FAQ:
>
http://swingleydev.com/**archive/faq.html<http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html>
>
> OldTools archive:
http://swingleydev.com/**archive/<http://swingleydev.com/archive/>
>
> OldTools@r...**edu <OldTools@r...>
>
http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/**mailman/listinfo/oldtools<http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------