This past week, while on vacation, I picked up a miter box with a 16" back
saw.  Both in pretty good condition.  While the saw was in good condition,
I started doing some cleaning on it and some of the etch came into view.  I
can't make out much of it, but can make out enough to see the word
Lakeside.  I've heard of Lakeside augers and have even owned a Lakeside
chisel or two.  However, I've never seen or heard of any saws by this
company.  I've done a bit of searching and I found a discussion on another
website by someone that apparently had a similar saw to the one that I
have.  It is a nice saw with a a nice heavy steel spine.  From what I can
gather, originally, the spine was blued, but the blueing has long since
worn off.  There is some traces of blueing where the spine fits into the
top of the tote.  Before finding the etch on the plate, I would have
guessed that this saw was a Disston No. 4 saw that was made for another
company.  Does anyone know if Lakeside actually manufactured these saws
themselves or if they had someone like Disston or Atkins manufacture them
for them.  Also, how might I go about determining an approximate date of
when this saw was made.  Gauging by the shape of the handle (nicely
formed) and the style of screws and nuts used (it has Warranted Superior on
the medalion), I would guess the saw to be made sometime between 1900 & the
WWII erra.  I've searched in the archives and did not find any mention of
this brand relating to saws.  I also looked on Wiktor's site and only saw
mention of the chisels and augers there.  Is there anyone out there that
can help identify where this fine little saw could have come from?

Thanks,

Doc

-- 
John Holladay
DocHolladay0820@g...
205-229-8484
------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Jan 1, 2012, at 12:45 AM, John Holladay wrote:

Does anyone know if Lakeside actually manufactured these saws themselves
or if they had someone like Disston or Atkins manufacture them for them.
I seem to remember a brief discussion of Lakeside in the past, leaving
the impression that they were a hardware store chain in California ..?
If you search the Archives, I suspect you may find something. Quite a
few of the large, old hardware stores used to have manufacturers make up
private label versions of their products, and some of these lines - Keen
Kutter, for example - are sought by collectors and were decent tools.

Charlie Driggs--------------------------------------------------------------
----------

I have been able to find some info on a Lakeside company in New York from
the archives, but it refers only to chisels (big thick socket chisels based
on the one our two I have had.) And auger bits.  The logo on these tools is
similar to what is on this saw, allowing for the fact that it is extremely
faint on thia saw.  I also was able to find reference to Montgomery Ward's
use of the name, but don't know if they bought the brand our something like
that.  I am aware of the hardware brands, but haven't found reference to
Lakeside as being one.  My thinking is that they were an actual
manufacturer at one time, but that they probably did not make saws.  I
think that they probably either had someone make saws for them, or this was
the result of a later company using the brand such as possibly Monkey
Ward.  Either way it is a nice saw that I can put to use our maybe pass it
on to someone to give them a nudge down the slope.

Doc
On Jan 1, 2012 7:31 AM, "Ken Shepard"  wrote:

> Montgomery Ward used "Lakeside" as a house brand.  Don't know if it was
> used on saws or miter boxes, but I have seen it on eggbeaters and chisels.
>
> Ken Shepard
>
> On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 12:45 AM, John Holladay wrote:
>
>> This past week, while on vacation, I picked up a miter box with a 16" back
>> saw.  Both in pretty good condition.  While the saw was in good condition,
>> I started doing some cleaning on it and some of the etch came into view.
>>  I
>> can't make out much of it, but can make out enough to see the word
>> Lakeside.  I've heard of Lakeside augers and have even owned a Lakeside
>> chisel or two.  However, I've never seen or heard of any saws by this
>> company.  I've done a bit of searching and I found a discussion on another
>> website by someone that apparently had a similar saw to the one that I
>> have.  It is a nice saw with a a nice heavy steel spine.  From what I can
>> gather, originally, the spine was blued, but the blueing has long since
>> worn off.  There is some traces of blueing where the spine fits into the
>> top of the tote.  Before finding the etch on the plate, I would have
>> guessed that this saw was a Disston No. 4 saw that was made for another
>> company.  Does anyone know if Lakeside actually manufactured these saws
>> themselves or if they had someone like Disston or Atkins manufacture them
>> for them.  Also, how might I go about determining an approximate date of
>> when this saw was made.  Gauging by the shape of the handle (nicely
>> formed) and the style of screws and nuts used (it has Warranted Superior
>> on
>> the medalion), I would guess the saw to be made sometime between 1900 &
>> the
>> WWII erra.  I've searched in the archives and did not find any mention of
>> this brand relating to saws.  I also looked on Wiktor's site and only saw
>> mention of the chisels and augers there.  Is there anyone out there that
>> can help identify where this fine little saw could have come from?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Doc
>>
>>
>> --
>> John Holladay
>> DocHolladay0820@g...
>> 205-229-8484
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
>> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
>> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
>> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>>
>> To change your subscription options:
>> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>>
>> To read the FAQ:
>> http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>>
>> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>>
>> OldTools@r...
>> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks Ray.  I'll check out both of those.

Doc
On Jan 1, 2012 7:48 AM, "Ray Gardiner"  wrote:

> Hi Doc, Ken et al
>
> On the off-chance that it was made by Disston for Mongomery Ward,  the
> best place to look would be Erik von Sneidern's http://www.**
> disstonianinstitute.com/ <http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/>
>
> I've done a rough comparison of the Catalog pictures of Disston No4's
> which might (or might not) help narrow it down.
> http://www.backsaw.net/index.**php?option=com_jfusion&Itemid=**
> > 58&jfile=showthread.php&t=78<http://www.backsaw.net/index.php?option=com_jfu
sion&Itemid=58&jfile=showthread.php&t=78>
>
> Of course that assumes it was in fact made by Disston...
>
> Regards
> Ray
>
>
>  Montgomery Ward used "Lakeside" as a house brand.  Don't know if it was
>> used on saws or miter boxes, but I have seen it on eggbeaters and chisels.
>>
>> Ken Shepard
>>
>>
> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
> ------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/**mailman/listinfo/oldtools<http://ruckus.law.
cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools>
>
> To read the FAQ:
> > http://swingleydev.com/**archive/faq.html<http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq
.html>
>
> > OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/**archive/<http://swingleydev.com/a
rchive/>
>
> OldTools@r...**edu 
> > http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/**mailman/listinfo/oldtools<http://ruckus.law.
cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Montgomery Ward used "Lakeside" as a house brand.  Don't know if it was
used on saws or miter boxes, but I have seen it on eggbeaters and chisels.

Ken Shepard

On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 12:45 AM, John Holladay wrote:

> This past week, while on vacation, I picked up a miter box with a 16" back
> saw.  Both in pretty good condition.  While the saw was in good condition,
> I started doing some cleaning on it and some of the etch came into view.  I
> can't make out much of it, but can make out enough to see the word
> Lakeside.  I've heard of Lakeside augers and have even owned a Lakeside
> chisel or two.  However, I've never seen or heard of any saws by this
> company.  I've done a bit of searching and I found a discussion on another
> website by someone that apparently had a similar saw to the one that I
> have.  It is a nice saw with a a nice heavy steel spine.  From what I can
> gather, originally, the spine was blued, but the blueing has long since
> worn off.  There is some traces of blueing where the spine fits into the
> top of the tote.  Before finding the etch on the plate, I would have
> guessed that this saw was a Disston No. 4 saw that was made for another
> company.  Does anyone know if Lakeside actually manufactured these saws
> themselves or if they had someone like Disston or Atkins manufacture them
> for them.  Also, how might I go about determining an approximate date of
> when this saw was made.  Gauging by the shape of the handle (nicely
> formed) and the style of screws and nuts used (it has Warranted Superior on
> the medalion), I would guess the saw to be made sometime between 1900 & the
> WWII erra.  I've searched in the archives and did not find any mention of
> this brand relating to saws.  I also looked on Wiktor's site and only saw
> mention of the chisels and augers there.  Is there anyone out there that
> can help identify where this fine little saw could have come from?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Doc
>
>
> --
> John Holladay
> DocHolladay0820@g...
> 205-229-8484
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>
> OldTools@r...
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Makes me feel bad-I passed on a couple of Lakeside chisels yesterday.
They were at the Fayetteville Antique Mall I frequent. Sockets were
flared, not much length left and priced high($10). Also a Wards
Mastercraft, but different style.

T Z

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 1, 2012, at 8:30 AM, Ken Shepard  wrote:

> Montgomery Ward used "Lakeside" as a house brand. Don't know if it was
> used on saws or miter boxes, but I have seen it on eggbeaters and
> chisels.
>> Ken Shepard On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 12:45 AM, John Holladay
>> wrote:
>>> This past week, while on vacation, I picked up a miter box with a
>>> 16" back
>> saw. Both in pretty good condition. While the saw was in good
>> condition, I started doing some cleaning on it and some of the etch
>> came into view. I can't make out much of it, but can make out enough
>> to see the word Lakeside. I've heard of Lakeside augers and have even
>> owned a Lakeside chisel or two. However, I've never seen or heard of
>> any saws by this company. I've done a bit of searching and I found a
>> discussion on another website by someone that apparently had a
>> similar saw to the one that I have. It is a nice saw with a a nice
>> heavy steel spine. =46rom what I can gather, originally, the spine
>> was blued, but the blueing has long since worn off. There is some
>> traces of blueing where the spine fits into the top of the tote.
>> Before finding the etch on the plate, I would have guessed that this
>> saw was a Disston No. 4 saw that was made for another company. Does
>> anyone know if Lakeside actually manufactured these saws themselves
>> or if they had someone like Disston or Atkins manufacture them for
>> them. Also, how might I go about determining an approximate date of
>> when this saw was made. Gauging by the shape of the handle (nicely
>> formed) and the style of screws and nuts used (it has Warranted
>> Superior on the medalion), I would guess the saw to be made sometime
>> between 1900 & the WWII erra. I've searched in the archives and did
>> not find any mention of this brand relating to saws. I also looked on
>> Wiktor's site and only saw mention of the chisels and augers there.
>> Is there anyone out there that can help identify where this fine
>> little saw could have come from?
>>>> Thanks, Doc
>>>>>> --
>> John Holladay DocHolladay0820@g... 205-229-8484
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------
>> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
>> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history,
>> usage, value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration
>> of traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>>>> To change your subscription options:
>> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>>>> To read the FAQ:
>> http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>>>> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/ OldTools@r...
>> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/ OldTools@r...
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post a photo of the saw and the manufacturer will become apparent.

-- 
Erik von Sneidern
www.disstonianinstitute.com

On Sat, 2011-12-31 at 23:45 -0600, John Holladay wrote:
>   I also looked on Wiktor's site and only saw
> mention of the chisels and augers there.  Is there anyone out there that
> can help identify where this fine little saw could have come from?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Doc
> 
> 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 I can remember being in Montgomery Ward stores and seeing Lakeside tools. I was
 under the impression that they were trying to compete with Sears Craftsman by h
aving their own line of tools. If  my memory isn't failing me completely, I coul
d swear that I saw  tools including mechanics tools for sale. But I remember the
ir tool department being quite small, compared to Sears. 

Yet I can't recall ever seeing any mechanics tools for sale on the used market. 
Of course I have never looked for them, either.

Now I gotta wonder... There have to be a bazillion old Sears catalogs out there.
 Did none of the Montgomery Ward catalogs survive? An old catalog would tell us 
what tools Montgomery Ward sold under the Lakeside name. Anybody got access to o
ne???

On Jan 1, 2012, at 9:28 AM, roygriggs@v... wrote:

> GG,
> > In an old message #110165, Bill Ghio reports that the Lakeside Saw and Tool 
Co. made saws as found in Erv's book.
> > Also speculation on the web that LST was a Chicago co. probably bought by Mo
nkey Wards: a LST saw with a second etch, of an MW within a triangle on a Lakesi
de saw.
> 
> Roy Griggs
> roygriggs@v...
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
> 
> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
> 
> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
> 
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
> 
> OldTools@r...
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools

------------------------------------------------------------------------

GG,
 In an old message #110165, Bill Ghio reports that the Lakeside Saw and Tool Co.
 made saws as found in Erv's book.
 Also speculation on the web that LST was a Chicago co. probably bought by Monke
y Wards: a LST saw with a second etch, of an MW within a triangle on a Lakeside 
saw.
   
Roy Griggs
roygriggs@v...

------------------------------------------------------------------------

FWIW, no less an authority than Martin J. Donnelly professes to not know
much about the Lakeside Saw & Tool Co. of Chicago, except that it "sure
wasn't the Montgomery Ward 'Lakeside' line":
<http://www.mjdtools.com/tools/list_0149/121883.htm> Speaking of which,
on any "Lakeside" chisels or auger bits I can recall, the word was done
in a nice cursive script. That looks quite different from what appears
on saws made, or sold, by the mysterious Chicago company in question:
<http://www.antiqbuyer.com/images/ARCHIVE_PICS/2011-JUNE-
ARCHIVE/AMER/IMG_7229.jpg> with the word in block letters superimposed
on a diamond design. Looks like maybe Wiktor has found its beginning.
Now an end will provide a time frame. Tom Holloway

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
The Iron Trade Review, February 13, 1908:

The Lakeside Saw & Tool Co., 120 Michigan avenue, Chicago, to manufacture
tools and hardware appliances, has been incorporated by J. F. McFadden, J.
K. Mayne and George R. Dugan with $1,000 capital stock.

Wiktor A. Kuc

-----Original Message-----
From: oldtools-bounces@r...
[mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of John Holladay
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 10:45 PM
To: Old Tools
Subject: [OldTools] Lakeside Back Saw and Miter Box

This past week, while on vacation, I picked up a miter box with a 16" back
saw.  Both in pretty good condition.  While the saw was in good condition, I
started doing some cleaning on it and some of the etch came into view.  I
can't make out much of it, but can make out enough to see the word Lakeside.
I've heard of Lakeside augers and have even owned a Lakeside chisel or two.
However, I've never seen or heard of any saws by this company.  

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have a 26 =E2=80=9D straight back handsaw with a blade etch reading;
=E2=80=9CWards Lakeside, vanadium steel blade, taper ground, B4 3995
hardness and temper, filed and set, Montgomery Ward=E2=80=9D It has a
=E2=80=9CWarranted Superior=E2=80=9Dmedallion, and with its galvanized
screws looks to be from about 1950s era So maybe a Wards Lakeside saw is
a different beast than a Lakeside Saw & Tool Co saw -- rob paul
robpaul@f...

--http://www.fastmail.fm - Accessible with your email software or
over the web

------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Jan 1, 2012, at 1:49 PM, Joshua Clark wrote:
> I'm also sure that the Lakeside brand was a brand used by Ward on
> tools they sold. Like Sears' Craftsman line, Lakside tools were made
> for Ward by various manufacturers and branded with the Lakeside name.
> I'm fairly certain that most Lakeside saws were made by C.E. Jennings.
> I used to think they were made by Disston but most I've seen have a
> different handle style than Disstons with much more refined curves.
> They closely match the Jennings saws I've found from the same era. The
> Lakeside saws also tend to have a much deeper etch than Disstons- you
> can feel the etch with your fingernail almost as if it were stamped.>>
> I've found a number of good Lakeside saws. Here's a Thumbhole ripper I
> found a few months back. If you check out the handle style with that
> incredibly thin upper loop above the thumbhole, I think you'll agree
> it's not a Disston.
>> http://www.hyperkitten.com/pics/tools/fs/archives/Sept2011/s21.html

> On Jan 1, 2012, at 4:13 PM, Zachary Dillinger wrote:
>> I must respectfully disagree with the assessment that Lakeside Saw
>> and Tool wasn't a Montgomery Wards trademark. I have a 28", 5pi
>> ripsaw with an extremely clear etch from this firm. Pics are here:
>> http://galootcentral.com/index.php?option=com_copperminevis&Itemid=2-
>> &place=thumbnails&album=647
>
> On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 3:06 PM, Tom Holloway  wrote:
>> FWIW, no less an authority than Martin J. Donnelly professes to not
>> know much about the Lakeside Saw & Tool Co. of Chicago, except that
>> it "sure wasn't the Montgomery Ward 'Lakeside' line":
>> <http://www.mjdtools.com/tools/list_0149/121883.htm>
>> >>        . . . the mysterious Chicago company in question: <http://www.antiq
buyer.com/images/ARCHIVE_PICS/2011-JUNE-
>>          ARCHIVE/AMER/IMG_7229.jpg> with the word in block letters
>>          superimposed on a diamond design.

OK, Doc, here you have it: Turns out that MJD's authority is not worth
much in this instance. With the clear MW logo in the etch of Zach's
saw, looking back at the one I found elsewhere on the Web (since MJD's
pic is no help on the details of the logo) it sure looks like the MW of
Monky Ward, with the M on top of the W, is probably there. Then again,
from what Wiktor came up with on the founding of a company with the
name in question, in 1908, in Chicago, it seems at least possible that
Monky Ward might have acquired the company atsome point, and then
continued to use the name. Tom Holloway-----------------------------------------
---------------------
----------

On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 1:49 PM, Joshua Clark  wrote:

> I'm also sure that the Lakeside brand was a brand used by Ward on tools
> they sold.
>

Looking through Google books (1900 - 1940) for Montgomery Wards Catalog
lakeside gives a couple of snippet views of things with Lakeside

1904 Farm Journal - Lakeside Stoves
Practical Bungalows c1906 ( a Wards publication?) - Fine Mechanics tools
Lakeside L112 Saw
Hardware Age 1930 - talks about a "The following testimonial is from Ward's
*catalog* regarding the *Lakeside* Deluxe 26-in. saw, priced at $3.20"
Consumer Digest 1937 Lakeside Model 5555 by wards, doesn't say what in
snippet view.
1940- stove parts again

Some places sell a 1890's vintage Wards Catalog reprint

http://www.amazon.com/Montgomery-Catalogue-Dover-Pictorial-Archive/dp/0486223779

Here is an 1917 advert for sale on ebay (its only a buy it now, so I feel
its OK to post, apologies if not) with both Lakeside and Disston saws.
Can't read the fine print, but says its a M Wards ad.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1917-Lakeside-hand-saws-ship-carpenter-Disston-ad-/12060
9619107#vi-content

lots of silverplate with Lakeside Montgomery Wards name on it.

Here is a claim of Stanley for Lakeside on a ratchet brace, maybe someone
can type it to put a year on them, about 1910.

http://www.tias.com/8600/PictPage/3923778685.html
http://www.tias.com/8600/PictPage/3923715443.html

Tried to find "MW bought Lakeside", no luck yet.  Maybe later.

Kirk in Half Moon Bay, CA for a change
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I tried Google, using  "Lakeside Montgomery Ward" as my search term, and got a l
ot of info. Wards also sold MasterCraft tools, probably as their first line, and
 PowerCraft power tools. 

Discussions cover big 2 man crosscut saws, handplanes, and on and on. Mention is
 made of them not being collectible and therefore not popular.

On Jan 1, 2012, at 3:27 PM, Kirk Eppler wrote:

> On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 1:49 PM, Joshua Clark  wrote:
> 
>> I'm also sure that the Lakeside brand was a brand used by Ward on tools
>> they sold.
>> 
> 
> Looking through Google books (1900 - 1940) for Montgomery Wards Catalog
> lakeside gives a couple of snippet views of things with Lakeside
> 
> 1904 Farm Journal - Lakeside Stoves
> Practical Bungalows c1906 ( a Wards publication?) - Fine Mechanics tools
> Lakeside L112 Saw
> Hardware Age 1930 - talks about a "The following testimonial is from Ward's
> *catalog* regarding the *Lakeside* Deluxe 26-in. saw, priced at $3.20"
> Consumer Digest 1937 Lakeside Model 5555 by wards, doesn't say what in
> snippet view.
> 1940- stove parts again
> 
> 
> Some places sell a 1890's vintage Wards Catalog reprint
> 
> > http://www.amazon.com/Montgomery-Catalogue-Dover-Pictorial-Archive/dp/048622
3779
> 
> 
> Here is an 1917 advert for sale on ebay (its only a buy it now, so I feel
> its OK to post, apologies if not) with both Lakeside and Disston saws.
> Can't read the fine print, but says its a M Wards ad.
> 
> > http://www.ebay.com/itm/1917-Lakeside-hand-saws-ship-carpenter-Disston-ad-/1
20609619107#vi-content
> 
> lots of silverplate with Lakeside Montgomery Wards name on it.
> 
> Here is a claim of Stanley for Lakeside on a ratchet brace, maybe someone
> can type it to put a year on them, about 1910.
> 
> http://www.tias.com/8600/PictPage/3923778685.html
> http://www.tias.com/8600/PictPage/3923715443.html
> 
> Tried to find "MW bought Lakeside", no luck yet.  Maybe later.
> 
> 
> Kirk in Half Moon Bay, CA for a change
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
> 
> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
> 
> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
> 
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
> 
> OldTools@r...
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I must respectfully disagree with the assessment that Lakeside Saw and
Tool wasn't a Montgomery Wards trademark. I have a 28", 5pi ripsaw with
an extremely clear etch from this firm. Pics are here: http://galootce-
ntral.com/index.php?option=com_copperminevis&Itemid=2&place=thumbnails-
&album=647

This saw's etch says:

Fully Guaranteed Lakeside Saw and Tool Co. New York Kansas City Fort
Worth Portland

It features a very clear Montgomery Wards Chicago Trademark.

The text of the etch says:

No L 7

Extra quality patent ground and tempered If found defective in any way a
New saw will be given in exchange A high grade general utility saw Fully
guaranteed

The chisel that is pictured is a Lakeside, with plain text logo, not
cursive. This is one of my favorite chisels to use. Takes a great edge
and seems to keep it a long time. I made a very comfortable 18th
c. style octagonal handle for it.

Zach

--
Zachary Dillinger The Eaton County Joinery www.theeatoncountyjoinery.com
517-231-3374

On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 3:06 PM, Tom Holloway  wrote:
> FWIW, no less an authority than Martin J. Donnelly professes to not
> know much about the Lakeside Saw & Tool Co. of Chicago, except that it
> "sure wasn't the Montgomery Ward 'Lakeside' line":
> <http://www.mjdtools.com/tools/list_0149/121883.htm> =A0 =A0 =A0
> =A0Speaking of which, on any "Lakeside" chisels or auger bits I can
> recall, the word was done in a nice cursive script. That looks quite
> different from what appears on saws made, or sold, by the mysterious
> > Chicago company in question: <http://www.antiqbuyer.com/images/ARCHIVE_PICS/
2011-JUNE-
> ARCHIVE/AMER/IMG_7229.jpg> with the word in block letters superimposed
> on a diamond design. =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Looks like maybe Wiktor has found
> its beginning. Now an end will provide a time frame. =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Tom Holloway
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ: http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>
> OldTools@r... http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm also sure that the Lakeside brand was a brand used by Ward on tools
they sold. Like Sears' Craftsman line, Lakside tools were made for Ward
by various manufacturers and branded with the Lakeside name. I'm fairly
certain that most Lakeside saws were made by C.E. Jennings. I used to
think they were made by Disston but most I've seen have a different
handle style than Disstons with much more refined curves. They closely
match the Jennings saws I've found from the same era. The Lakeside saws
also tend to have a much deeper etch than Disstons- you can feel the
etch with your fingernail almost as if it were stamped. I've found a
number of good Lakeside saws. Here's a Thumbhole ripper I found a few
months back. If you check out the handle style with that incredibly thin
upper loop above the thumbhole, I think you'll agree it's not a Disston.

http://www.hyperkitten.com/pics/tools/fs/archives/Sept2011/s21.html

For what it's worth, I'm sure that Jennings also made the "Fulton" line
of hardware saws as well. I've got pictures of those too, but it's for
another thread.

Josh

Happy New Year!

On Jan 1, 2012, at 4:13 PM, Zachary Dillinger wrote:

> I must respectfully disagree with the assessment that Lakeside Saw and
> Tool wasn't a Montgomery Wards trademark. I have a 28", 5pi ripsaw
> with an extremely clear etch from this firm. Pics are here: http://ga-
> lootcentral.com/index.php?option=com_copperminevis&Itemid=2&place=thu-
> mbnails&album=647

------------------------------------------------------------------------

The last record I have seen for Lakeside Saw is 1920. It is possible
that MWard purchased the company. There is another option as well -
MWard made a deal with LS about exclusivity of sale and having their
logo (MW) on saws. Historically, this was rather common practice.
Wiktor A. Kuc

-----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-
bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Zachary Dillinger Sent: Sunday, January 01,
2012 2:13 PM To: Tom Holloway
Cc: porch Subject: Re: [OldTools] Lakeside Back Saw and Miter Box

I must respectfully disagree with the assessment that Lakeside Saw and
Tool wasn't a Montgomery Wards trademark. I have a 28", 5pi ripsaw with
an extremely clear etch from this firm. Pics are here: http://galootcen-
tral.com/index.php?option=com_copperminevis&Itemid=2&place=t
humbnails&album=647

This saw's etch says:

Fully Guaranteed Lakeside Saw and Tool Co. New York Kansas City Fort
Worth Portland

It features a very clear Montgomery Wards Chicago Trademark.

The text of the etch says:

No L 7

Extra quality patent ground and tempered If found defective in any way a
New saw will be given in exchange A high grade general utility saw Fully
guaranteed

The chisel that is pictured is a Lakeside, with plain text logo, not
cursive. This is one of my favorite chisels to use. Takes a great edge
and seems to keep it a long time. I made a very comfortable 18th c.
style octagonal handle for it.

Zach

--
Zachary Dillinger The Eaton County Joinery www.theeatoncountyjoinery.com
517-231-3374

On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 3:06 PM, Tom Holloway  wrote:
> FWIW, no less an authority than Martin J. Donnelly professes to not>
> know much about the Lakeside Saw & Tool Co. of Chicago, except that it
> "sure wasn't the Montgomery Ward 'Lakeside' line":
> <http://www.mjdtools.com/tools/list_0149/121883.htm> =A0 =A0 =A0
> =A0Speaking of which, on any "Lakeside" chisels or auger bits I> can
> recall, the word was done in a nice cursive script. That looks> quite
> different from what appears on saws made, or sold, by the mysterious
Chicago company in question:
> <http://www.antiqbuyer.com/images/ARCHIVE_PICS/2011-JUNE-ARCHIVE/AMER/
> IMG_7229.jpg> with the word in block letters superimposed on a diamond
> design. =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Looks like maybe Wiktor has found its
> beginning. Now an end will
provide a time frame.
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Tom Holloway
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -- OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool>
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of>
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ: http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>
> OldTools@r... http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 11:52 AM, Wiktor Kuc  wrote:
>
>
> The Iron Trade Review, February 13, 1908:
>
> The Lakeside Saw & Tool Co., 120 Michigan avenue, Chicago, to
> manufacture tools and hardware appliances, has been incorporated by J.
> F. McFadden, J.
> K. Mayne and George R. Dugan with $1,000 capital stock.
>
>

Lakeside Saw & Tool was listed at 618 W Chicago Avenue, Chicago

in a=A0 Certified list of domestic and foreign corporations published in
1920 by the Illinois Sect of State.=A0 New location is more inland, but
according to current number schemes, it is a river front location.

Checking on that address, it as later listed as MW corporate
headquarters in 1935 according to Chain Store Age.

And going even further back, MW is listed at 111 to 120 Michigan Ave
Chicago in an 1897 publication. Libraries: a monthly review of library
matters and methods, Volume 2.

Hmm, maybe they were only a shell company the whole time?

There is also a no preview hit on a 1922 MW catalog.

Kirk in HMB, giving up for the night.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Very interesting...

Thanks much! Wiktor A. Kuc

-----Original Message----- From: Kirk Eppler
[mailto:eppler.kirk@g...]Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2012 11:14 PM To:
Wiktor.Kuc@w...
Cc: John Holladay; Old Tools Subject: Re: [OldTools] Lakeside Back Saw
    and Miter Box

On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 11:52 AM, Wiktor Kuc  wrote:
>
>
> The Iron Trade Review, February 13, 1908:
>
> The Lakeside Saw & Tool Co., 120 Michigan avenue, Chicago, to>
> manufacture tools and hardware appliances, has been incorporated
> by J. F.
McFadden, J.
> K. Mayne and George R. Dugan with $1,000 capital stock.
>
>

Lakeside Saw & Tool was listed at 618 W Chicago Avenue, Chicago

in a=A0 Certified list of domestic and foreign corporations published in
1920 by the Illinois Sect of State.=A0 New location is more inland, but
according to current number schemes, it is a river front location.

Checking on that address, it as later listed as MW corporate
headquarters in 1935 according to Chain Store Age.

And going even further back, MW is listed at 111 to 120 Michigan Ave
Chicago in an 1897 publication. Libraries: a monthly review of library
matters and methods, Volume 2.

Hmm, maybe they were only a shell company the whole time?

There is also a no preview hit on a 1922 MW catalog.

Kirk in HMB, giving up for the night.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

  I've heard several times that Lakeside was Ward's second line.

But I have a Lakeside chisel. It is a standard (when standard meant 
something)  fully bevelled bench chisel.
  A socket chisel with 6" of useable blade.

   If this chisel is not really a Whitherby, I will kiss a pig.
Having had and seen Whitherbys, as well as many other brands, the signs 
I can see and the age of the chisel, point to a single conclusion. At 
least to me.
   Construction is dead on. Polish and texture of steel against the 
stone. Hardness, edge retention, all are bang on and definitely no ones 
second line of anything!
   It is one of my favorite chisels and has been for years. If I could 
get 12 more chisels just like the one I have? You better believe I'd 
take them, in a heartbeat.

   So it appears the Lakeside MW branding must have appeared on a range 
of product qualities. At least to me.

  I really love it when nobody wants something spectacular because of 
the name on it!
    yours Scott
-- 
*******************************
    Scott Grandstaff
    Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
    scottg@s...
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html

------------------------------------------------------------------------

        I earlier wrote:FWIW, no less an authority than Martin J.
        Donnelly professes to not know much about the Lakeside Saw &
        Tool Co. of Chicago, except that it "sure wasn't the Montgomery
        Ward 'Lakeside' line":
        <http://www.mjdtools.com/tools/list_0149/121883.htm>

> On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 11:52 AM, Wiktor Kuc  wrote:
>> The Iron Trade Review, February 13, 1908: The Lakeside Saw & Tool
>> Co., 120 Michigan avenue, Chicago, to>> manufacture tools and
>> hardware appliances, has been incorporated by J. F.
> McFadden, J.K. Mayne and George R. Dugan with $1,000 capital stock.

On Jan 1, 2012, at 10:14 PM, Kirk Eppler wrote:
> Lakeside Saw & Tool was listed at 618 W Chicago Avenue, Chicago
> Checking on that address, it as later listed as MW corporate
> headquarters in 1935 according to Chain Store Age. And going even
> further back, MW is listed at 111 to 120 Michigan Ave Chicago in an
> 1897 publication. Libraries: a monthly review of library matters and
> methods, Volume 2. Hmm, maybe they were only a shell company the
> whole time?

I think we're getting warm, maybe even hot. This MW in-house publication
from 1904:

<http://books.google.com/books?id=bHxIAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA369&lpg=PA369&dq=J.-
+F.+McFadden+Montgomery+Ward&source=bl&ots=5j_AhfeGAy&sig=Zi6HSen_NfC0A-
uQ9wdTuOTjC7TU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tl0BT72oEuGUiQKC8Z2FDQ&sqi=2&ved=0CCEQ6AEw-
AA#v=onepage&q=J.%20F.%20McFadden%20Montgomery%20Ward&f=false>

lists J. F. McFadden on p. 369 as "manager of the Bookkeepers" at
Montgomery Ward, with 11 years service as of 1904; and on p. 177 J.K.
Mayne appears, with 14 years service, "Manager of the Correspondence and
Typewriting division." No Dugan appears in this 1904 publication, but
the ID of McFadden and Mayne (whose previous career track was pretty far
from tool manufacturing), and the location info Kirk unearthed, surely
point to MW setting up Lakeside Saw & Tool as a wholly owned subsidiary,
using some of its own trusty employees as officers of record. I guess
all that's left is to let Martin know that Lakeside Saw & Tool and
Montgomery Ward: all same no difference. Tom Holloway

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Hi Doc, Ken et al

 On the off-chance that it was made by Disston for Mongomery Ward, the
 best place to look would be Erik von Sneidern's
 http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/

 I've done a rough comparison of the Catalog pictures of Disston No4's
 which might (or might not) help narrow it down. http://www.backsaw.net-
 /index.php?option=com_jfusion&Itemid=58&jfile=showthread.php&t Of
 course that assumes it was in fact made by Disston...

 Regards Ray

> Montgomery Ward used "Lakeside" as a house brand. Don't know if it was
> used on saws or miter boxes, but I have seen it on eggbeaters and
> chisels.
>
> Ken Shepard
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bravo Kirk and Tom!

This is very good chunk of info.

There are still some questions that need answers. Was the Lakeside Saw
really making any tools?

Their stock was only $1000 during recorded period. This is rather small
amount for company that would be a production house. Or was it just a
shell company to use their name for tools made by others? This most
likely is an option...

Wiktor A. Kuc

-----Original Message----- From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-
bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Tom Holloway Sent: Monday, January 02,
2012 1:00 AM To: porch Subject: Re: [OldTools] Lakeside Back Saw
and Miter Box

I think we're getting warm, maybe even hot. This MW in-house publication
from 1904:

<http://books.google.com/books?id=bHxIAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA369&lpg=PA369&dq=J.-
+F.+M cFadden+Montgomery+Ward&source=bl&ots=5j_AhfeGAy&sig=Zi6HSen_NfC0-
AuQ9wdTuOTj C7TU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tl0BT72oEuGUiQKC8Z2FDQ&sqi=2&ved
CEQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&qJ.%20F.%20McFadden%20Montgomery%20Ward&f=false>

lists J. F. McFadden on p. 369 as "manager of the Bookkeepers" at
Montgomery Ward, with 11 years service as of 1904; and on p. 177 J.K.
Mayne appears, with 14 years service, "Manager of the Correspondence and
Typewriting division." No Dugan appears in this 1904 publication, but
the ID of McFadden and Mayne (whose previous career track was pretty far
from tool manufacturing), and the location info Kirk unearthed, surely
point to MW setting up Lakeside Saw & Tool as a wholly owned subsidiary,
using some of its own trusty employees as officers of record. I guess
all that's left is to let Martin know that Lakeside Saw & Tool and
Montgomery Ward: all same no difference. Tom Holloway

------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Jan 2, 2012, at 12:24 AM, Ray Gardiner wrote:
> Well **almost** all that's left :- except to determine who actually
> made the saw? For that we still await the presentation of pictorial
> evidence.

>>      I guess all that's left is to let Martin know that Lakeside Saw
>>      & Tool and Montgomery Ward: all same no difference.

Oh, Ya--I was sorta focused on Martin's uncertainty about the
relationship betweenLakeside Saw & Tool, and Montgomery Ward. That seems
pretty well nailed, so who actually made the saws? The $1,000
capitalization does seem like a token amount, even if it would be nearly
$24,000 today (per online inflation calculator). Hardly enough to start
up actual manufacture of saws in 1908, I think. Erv. Shaffer's *Hand-saw
makers of North America*, p. 46, says that Montgomery Ward sold saws
made by Disston, Woodrough & McParlin, and Wheeler-Madden- Clemson. BUT
the source of that data point is the MW catalog for 1894-95, some 14
years before the formation of Lakeside Saw & Tool in 1908. On p. 54 Erv
says that in 1893 Henry Disston Co. absorbed Wheeler-Madden- Clemson and
Woodrough & McParlin, along with Richardson Bros. and Harvey W. Peace,
and operated "them all under a new enterprise called National Saw
Co.,Newark, NJ. Then on p. 17 Erv says the National Saw Co. operated in
Newark, NJ from 1890 to 1906, i.e., ending before Lakeside's 1908
starting point. And as reported earlier, on p. 15 Erv lists Lakeside Saw
& Tool in his "maker" lists, for the 1909-19 period, with locations in
Chicago, St. Paul, Ft. Worth, Portland, and Kansas City (asZach reported
from a saw in his stash). One thing this exercise suggests is that
probably other firms Erv lists as "makers" were, like Lakeside, not
really manufacturers, but distributors of products made by others with
their name on them. Josh votes for C.E. Jennings as the maker of
Lakeside saws. On p. 14 Erv gives CE Jennings dates as 1878-1932, so
that's inclusive of Lakeside, and notes that as of 1913 CE Jennings made
saws sold under several other brand names, but Lakeside is not one of
those listed. Negative evidence is not really evidence, and the fact
that CE Jennings was a maker for multiple brand names suggests that
Lakeside could have been one of the names--for marketing by Monkey
Wards. Still circumstantial. So, Ray: everybody's welcome to join the
hunt. Whatcha got? And Doc: Got a picture of the saw that started all
this? Tom Holloway

------------------------------------------------------------------------

GG, This is a Lakeside L8, Warren and Ted medallion, slab handled, no
curvy sexy handle on this one. The etch is the same as has already been
shown by Zach though not nearly as clear. The handle isn't a match for
anything in my herd.

http://galootcentral.com/index.php?option=com_copperminevis&Itemid=2&pl-
ace=displayimage&album=97&pos http://tinyurl.com/744rnpu

Roy Griggs roygriggs@v...

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Roy,

That saw looks for all the world like a Disston D8 if I ever saw one. I
would be very surprised if that saw was not made by Disston.

I've been out and about most of the day, but heading down to the shop to
take some pics of this back saw of mine. I'll have them posted shortly.

Doc On Jan 2, 2012 4:09 PM,  wrote:

> GG, This is a Lakeside L8, Warren and Ted medallion, slab handled, no
> curvy sexy handle on this one. The etch is the same as has already
> been shown by Zach though not nearly as clear. The handle isn't a
> match for anything in my herd.
>
>
> http://galootcentral.com/index.php?option=com_copperminevis&Itemid=2&-
> place=displayimage&album=97&pos> http://tinyurl.com/744rnpu
>
> Roy Griggs roygriggs@v...
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ: http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>
> OldTools@r... http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Finally took some pics of this saw. Notice, although kind of tough to
make it out, the word Lakeside is in cursive script. Unfortunately, I
cannot make out anything else. I also have no way of knowing if the
miter box originally came with the saw. I don't set any manufacturer
markings on the miter box.

http://s870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/docholladay0820/Lakeside Saw

As a further data point for comparison, here is a pic of a Disston No. 4
that I have. Although, this saw is obviously different. I'm pretty sure
this one is quite a bit older.

http://s870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/docholladay0820/Disston _4

Finally, as a reference to the saw of Roy's, here are some pics of my
Disston D8 panel saw. It looks very similar.

http://s870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/docholladay0820/Disston
D8 Panel Saw

Anyway, hope this helps to clear up the mystery.

Doc On Jan 2, 2012 4:18 PM, "John Holladay"
 wrote:

> Roy,
>
> That saw looks for all the world like a Disston D8 if I ever saw one.
> I would be very surprised if that saw was not made by Disston.
>
> I've been out and about most of the day, but heading down to the shop
> to take some pics of this back saw of mine. I'll have them posted
> shortly.
>
> Doc On Jan 2, 2012 4:09 PM,  wrote:
>
>> GG, This is a Lakeside L8, Warren and Ted medallion, slab handled, no
>> curvy sexy handle on this one. The etch is the same as has already
>> been shown by Zach though not nearly as clear. The handle isn't a
>> match for anything in my herd.
>>
>>
>> http://galootcentral.com/index.php?option=com_copperminevis&Itemid=2-
>> &place=displayimage&album=97&pos>> http://tinyurl.com/744rnpu
>>
>> Roy Griggs roygriggs@v...
>>
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------
>> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
>> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history,
>> usage, value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration
>> of traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>>
>> To change your subscription options:
>> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>>
>> To read the FAQ: http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>>
>> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>>
>> OldTools@r... http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Jan 2, 2012, at 5:18 PM, Ray Gardiner wrote:
> On reflection, that was a remarkable bit of detective work, to connect
> Lakeside Saw and Tool, definitively with Montgomery Ward, especially
> the idea to look for matching addresses.. then match up the staff
> records.. Congratulations on a nice bit of imaginative research!..
>>>>> I guess all that's left is to let Martin know that Lakeside Saw &
>>>> Tool and Montgomery Ward: all same no difference.

        Thanks, Ray, but credit where it is due: Wiktor came up with the
        address for Lakeside Saw & Tool, the date of incorporation, and
        names of the so-called company officers. Then Kirk made a
        definitive connection of the physical location/address with
        Monkey Ward. What I did was put the names of the "officers" of
        Lakeside in a search box together with Montgomery Ward, and
        concluded that the company had merely used the names of some of
        its mid-level managers (of bookkeeping and "typewriting") as officers-of
-
        record for Lakeside Saw & Tool. Match made, mostly due to the
        wonders of the internet and the information that can be found
        therein, instantly, from a distance. Tom

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Hi Tom,

 Well **almost** all that's left :- except to determine who actually 
 made the saw?

 For that we still await the presentation of pictorial evidence.

 Regards
 Ray

> 	I guess all that's left is to let Martin know that Lakeside Saw &
> Tool and Montgomery Ward: all same no difference.
> 		Tom Holloway
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

As an additional reference see pics here of a lakeside chisel.  Nice,
hefty, solid socket chisel.  Notice that the makers mark is simple block
letters.  On my saw they are in cursive, which is also different from the
other saws that have been shown in this discussion.  I don't know if it
means anything.

http://s870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/docholladay0820/Lakeside Chisel

Doc
On Jan 2, 2012 8:12 PM, "Tom Holloway"  wrote:

> On Jan 2, 2012, at 5:18 PM, Ray Gardiner wrote:
> > On reflection, that was a remarkable bit of detective work, to connect
> Lakeside Saw and Tool, definitively with Montgomery Ward, especially the
> idea to look for matching addresses.. then match up the staff records..
> > Congratulations on a nice bit of imaginative research!..
> >
> >>>> I guess all that's left is to let Martin know that Lakeside Saw &
> >>>> Tool and Montgomery Ward: all same no difference.
>
>
>        Thanks, Ray, but credit where it is due: Wiktor came up with the
> address for Lakeside Saw & Tool, the date of incorporation, and names of
> the so-called company officers. Then Kirk made a definitive connection of
> the physical location/address with Monkey Ward. What I did was put the
> names of the "officers" of Lakeside in a search box together with
> Montgomery Ward, and concluded that the company had merely used the names
> of some of its mid-level managers (of bookkeeping and "typewriting") as
> officers-of-record for Lakeside Saw & Tool.
>        Match made, mostly due to the wonders of the internet and the
> information that can be found therein, instantly, from a distance.
>                Tom
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>
> OldTools@r...
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I went through my pile yesterday looking for Lakeside tools and came up with
3, a nice socket chisel with a script logo, a 4 1/4 plane with the same logo
on the blade, and a draw knife with the block letter logo. All the same
company?

DGW

-----Original Message-----
From: oldtools-bounces@r...
[mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of John Holladay
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 9:35 PM
To: Tom Holloway
Cc: porch
Subject: Re: [OldTools] Lakeside Back Saw and Miter Box

As an additional reference see pics here of a lakeside chisel.  Nice,
hefty, solid socket chisel.  Notice that the makers mark is simple block
letters.  On my saw they are in cursive, which is also different from the
other saws that have been shown in this discussion.  I don't know if it
means anything.

http://s870.photobucket.com/albums/ab265/docholladay0820/Lakeside Chisel

Doc
On Jan 2, 2012 8:12 PM, "Tom Holloway"  wrote:

> On Jan 2, 2012, at 5:18 PM, Ray Gardiner wrote:
> > On reflection, that was a remarkable bit of detective work, to connect
> Lakeside Saw and Tool, definitively with Montgomery Ward, especially the
> idea to look for matching addresses.. then match up the staff records..
> > Congratulations on a nice bit of imaginative research!..
> >
> >>>> I guess all that's left is to let Martin know that Lakeside Saw &
> >>>> Tool and Montgomery Ward: all same no difference.
>
>
>        Thanks, Ray, but credit where it is due: Wiktor came up with the
> address for Lakeside Saw & Tool, the date of incorporation, and names of
> the so-called company officers. Then Kirk made a definitive connection of
> the physical location/address with Monkey Ward. What I did was put the
> names of the "officers" of Lakeside in a search box together with
> Montgomery Ward, and concluded that the company had merely used the names
> of some of its mid-level managers (of bookkeeping and "typewriting") as
> officers-of-record for Lakeside Saw & Tool.
>        Match made, mostly due to the wonders of the internet and the
> information that can be found therein, instantly, from a distance.
>                Tom
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>
> OldTools@r...
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Jan 2, 2012, at 9:47 PM, David Wittner wrote:

> I went through my pile yesterday looking for Lakeside tools and came
> up with 3, a nice socket chisel with a script logo, a 4 1/4 plane with
> the same logo on the blade, and a draw knife with the block letter
> logo. All the same company?

I have a whole set of 6 or 7 Lakeside socket chisels with out a handle
among them. any pictures of an original handle out there?

Ed Minch

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Hi Doc,

 Well,  my guess, is it's not actually a mitre box saw, it's too short. 
 Looks like a 16" Disston No 4  similar to the one in the 1914 catalog.

 I defer to the Disston experts on the list, one for Eric perhaps.

 Regards
 Ray

 On Mon, 2 Jan 2012 17:32:05 -0600, John Holladay wrote:
> Finally took some pics of this saw.  Notice, although kind of tough 
> to make
> it out, the word Lakeside is in cursive script.  Unfortunately, I 
> cannot
> make out anything else.  I also have no way of knowing if the miter 
> box
> originally came with the saw.  I don't set any manufacturer markings 
> on the
> miter box.
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Hi Tom,

 On reflection, that was a remarkable bit of detective work, to connect 
 Lakeside Saw and Tool, definitively with Montgomery Ward, especially the 
 idea to look for matching addresses.. then match up the staff records..

 Congratulations on a nice bit of imaginative research!..

 Regards
 Ray

>>> I guess all that's left is to let Martin know that Lakeside Saw &
>>> Tool and Montgomery Ward: all same no difference.
>
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 6:47 PM, David Wittner  wrote:
> I went through my pile yesterday looking for Lakeside tools and came up with
> 3, a nice socket chisel with a script logo, a 4 1/4 plane with the same logo
> on the blade, and a draw knife with the block letter logo. All the same
> company?

Poking around in the DAT, I found two references to Lakeside

Lakeside - Braces - Ref to MW brand name, "but not known when they
started to use it, or if it was used otherwise"

Lakeside Tool Co. - Planes - "This company was reported as a hardware
dealer whose planes were made by 'Union'"

Additionally, Lakeside is listed as a brand of Maxwell & Co, S. A.
They made razor strops, thermometers and stationery store items like
drafting sets , steel erasers, compasses and pencils.

And finally, Lakeside Saw & Tool Co is listed as in business from 1909
- 1919, in IL as a Saw maker, but outside DAT scope

MW's listing is from 1872 - 1994, dealer, used their name or Lakeside
on tools, but not sure if it was used before 1900, which is DAT's
limit.  Also used Riverside.

More kindling on the fire.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Kirk Eppler  wrote:

> Here is an 1917 advert for sale on ebay (its only a buy it now, so I feel
> its OK to post, apologies if not) with both Lakeside and Disston saws. Can't
> read the fine print, but says its a M Wards ad.
>
> > http://www.ebay.com/itm/1917-Lakeside-hand-saws-ship-carpenter-Disston-ad-/1
20609619107#vi-content

Looking at this ad further, I noticed the similarity in saw model
numbers to Disston model numbers

L7
L8
L100
L112

Anyone have good enough eyes and imagination to see if L = D

The L30 and L32 don't match anything number wise in my Atkins or
Simonds catalogs, and I don't see those on the Disstonian either (love
the new article Erik, haven't read the entire thing, or all the emails
surrounding it yet.)

Kirk in HMB, CA, thinking this horse is just about flogged
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Josh and ggs--- Is it my imagination, or is there a special blue-ish
cast in most of the steel from C E Jennings? I got started accumulating
this stuff on account of my father's father's butt chisel set made by
them, and have now gathered up a big bunch of saws, firmers, augers and
more than a few boxes---I like to think I can tell the maker from the
color, but maybe I'm superstitious as well as sentimental---I do have a
metal 'Lakeside' auger box marked Montgomery Ward, but the marks aren't
exactly meshed together, if you know what I mean. Somebody made the MW
tools, Pritzlaff, CEJ, Union---haven't seen any Stanleys marked that
way, but I ain't looked. questions, questions---gam

If you were Einstein's father, we wouldn't have the bomb." Peggy Hill

--- On Sun, 1/1/12, Joshua Clark  wrote:

> From: Joshua Clark  Subject: Re: [OldTools] Lakeside Back
> Saw and Miter Box To: "Zachary Dillinger" 
> Cc: "porch"  Date: Sunday, January 1, 2012, 1:49 PM I'm
>     also sure that the Lakeside brand was a brand used by Ward on
>     tools they sold. Like Sears' Craftsman line, Lakside tools were
>     made for Ward by various manufacturers and branded with the
>     Lakeside name. I'm fairly certain that most Lakeside saws were
>     made by C.E. Jennings. I used to think they were made by Disston
>     but most I've seen have a different handle style than Disstons
>     with much more refined curves. They closely match the Jennings
>     saws I've found from the same era. The Lakeside saws also tend to
>     have a much deeper etch than Disstons- you can feel the etch with
>     your fingernail almost as if it were stamped.>> I've found a
>     number of good Lakeside saws. Here's a Thumbhole ripper I found a
>     few months back. If you check out the handle style with that
>     incredibly thin upper loop above the thumbhole, I think you'll
>     agree it's not a Disston.
>> http://www.hyperkitten.com/pics/tools/fs/archives/Sept2011/s21.html
>> For what it's worth, I'm sure that Jennings also made the
> "Fulton" line of hardware saws as well. I've got pictures of those
> too, but it's for another thread.
>> Josh Happy New Year! On Jan 1, 2012, at 4:13 PM, Zachary
>> Dillinger wrote:
>> > I must respectfully disagree with the assessment that
> Lakeside Saw and
> > Tool wasn't a Montgomery Wards trademark.=A0 I have
> a 28", 5pi ripsaw
> > with an extremely clear etch from this firm.=A0
> Pics are here:
> > http://galootcentral.com/index.php?option=com_copperminevis&Itemid=-
> > 2&place=thumbnails&album=647
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/ OldTools@r...
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------

A lot of saw makers in the late 1800s and early 1900s did this. Not only
did they copy the Disston patterns almost exactly, but their numbering
schemes matched as well. It makes sense- Disston was the market leader
and set the standards. The competition followed along to help customers
understand the equivalent models. For example, The ubiquitous Disston
D-8: Richardson made an R-8, Jennings made a J-8, and we know about the
Lakeside L-8. The Nos. 7 and 12 are also utilized by these companies as
well as Wodrough and McParlin, to match the Disston equivalents.
Jennings also made the J112, J100, which matched their Disston
equivalents. WI think Bishop also had some Disston model numbers as well
but I don't have a reference handy. The later companies like Atkins and
Simonds I think moved away from the Disston numbering scheme. Peace
never used it either which doesn't surprise me considering old Harvey's
feelings toward the Disston empire.=20 I still think the Lakeside saws
are Jennings :)

Josh

On Jan 3, 2012, at 5:53 PM, Kirk Eppler wrote:
>>>> Looking at this ad further, I noticed the similarity in saw model
> numbers to Disston model numbers
>> L7
> L8 L100 L112
>> Anyone have good enough eyes and imagination to see if L = D

------------------------------------------------------------------------