GG, 'Scuse my ignorance, but can someone tell me when the Stanley #246
miterbox and the #358 miterbox became respectively the #2246 and #2358.
My #2358 appears to be 50's or 60's vintage and my #2246 maybe the 30's
or 40's. The Disston 5 x 26 that came with the #2246 has an 1896-1917
medallion but no telling if it was the original saw that came with the
miterbox. TIA roy

Roy Griggs roygriggs@w... www.shavingsandsawdust.com

------------------------------------------------------------------------

According to Walters -

246 (1905-1984)
358 (1905-1972)
2246 (1932-1982)
2358 (1932-1982)

So it appears the 246/358s did not "become" the 2xxx series. Not much 
information on differences except to say the latter were blue.

Dennis Heyza
Macomb MI

----- Original Message ----- 
From: 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 12:21 PM
Subject: [OldTools] Stanley Miter Boxes

> GG,
> 'Scuse my ignorance, but can someone tell me when the Stanley #246 
> miterbox and the #358 miterbox became respectively the #2246 and #2358. My 
> #2358 appears to be 50's or 60's vintage and my #2246 maybe the 30's or 
> 40's.
> The Disston 5 x 26 that came with the #2246 has an 1896-1917 medallion but 
> no telling if it was the original saw that came with the miterbox.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gentle Galoots and Dennis, Now, I am getting a little off kilter  
here, where does my 50 1/2 fit in the scheme of things with Stanley.   
I bought it with an Atkins 26 inch?saw and I just love it to death.   
I haven't turned on my chop saw in years. I never knew its vintage,  
but it is slick to use.  I don't think it had ever been used as there  
is no play in the guides and all parts are present and accounted for.  
The saw is probably not original. It appears newer and was extremely  
sharp.  When was it made, if anybody happens to know? Thanks, Paul in  
the prairie snow bank in Normal

On Feb 18, 2007, at 11:58 AM, Dennis Heyza wrote:

> According to Walters -
>
> 246 (1905-1984)
> 358 (1905-1972)
> 2246 (1932-1982)
> 2358 (1932-1982)
>
> So it appears the 246/358s did not "become" the 2xxx series. Not  
> much information on differences except to say the latter were blue.
>
> Dennis Heyza
> Macomb MI
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: 
> To: 
> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 12:21 PM
> Subject: [OldTools] Stanley Miter Boxes
>
>
>> GG,
>> 'Scuse my ignorance, but can someone tell me when the Stanley #246  
>> miterbox and the #358 miterbox became respectively the #2246 and  
>> #2358. My #2358 appears to be 50's or 60's vintage and my #2246  
>> maybe the 30's or 40's.
>> The Disston 5 x 26 that came with the #2246 has an 1896-1917  
>> medallion but no telling if it was the original saw that came with  
>> the miterbox.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> --
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------------------------------------------------------------------------

Paul in Normal writes -

> Gentle Galoots and Dennis

Hey, wait a minute! I'm as gentle as the next guy!    ;-)

> Now, I am getting a little off kilter  here, where does my 50 1/2 fit in 
> the scheme of things with Stanley.   I bought it with an Atkins 26 
> inch?saw and I just love it to death.   I haven't turned on my chop saw in 
> years. I never knew its vintage,  but it is slick to use.  I don't think 
> it had ever been used as there  is no play in the guides and all parts are 
> present and accounted for.  The saw is probably not original. It appears 
> newer and was extremely  sharp.  When was it made, if anybody happens to 
> know? Thanks, Paul in  the prairie snow bank in Normal

Returning to Walters we find the following on the 50 1/2 -

4 inch capacity, 18" long, less expensive saw guides, no saw, made from 1909 
to 1967. Relevant patents: Traut's 6/19/1877 (adjustable, adapting to back 
or panel saw); Prentice's 6/24/1902 (mechanism & bevel guide); Traut's 
1/12/1904 (saw guide & carrier); Traut's 3/15/1904 (moveable stops).

The #60 was the same item supplied with a saw.

Dennis

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gentle Dennis and Other Like-Minded Galoots,

Checked the metal tag on the front and we have a Stanley in a notched  
box with the SW heart sort of superimposed.  Does that put it in that  
1919-1922 era? It would be handy if it did compound mitres, but that  
is for another day and another box.  Got too many older and some  
lesser ones hanging in the rafters as it is.  They aren't exactly hot  
items   unless it it says ...Langdon...! Can't even give 'em away  
sometimes for shipping! Thank you for your help.  It had never  
crossed my mind to date the thing!  I'm slippin' in  my old age! Paul  
in Normal

On Feb 18, 2007, at 1:45 PM, Dennis Heyza wrote:

> Paul in Normal writes -
>
>> Gentle Galoots and Dennis
>
> Hey, wait a minute! I'm as gentle as the next guy!    ;-)
>
>> Now, I am getting a little off kilter  here, where does my 50 1/2  
>> fit in the scheme of things with Stanley.   I bought it with an  
>> Atkins 26 inch?saw and I just love it to death.   I haven't turned  
>> on my chop saw in years. I never knew its vintage,  but it is  
>> slick to use.  I don't think it had ever been used as there  is no  
>> play in the guides and all parts are present and accounted for.   
>> The saw is probably not original. It appears newer and was  
>> extremely  sharp.  When was it made, if anybody happens to know?  
>> Thanks, Paul in  the prairie snow bank in Normal
>
> Returning to Walters we find the following on the 50 1/2 -
>
> 4 inch capacity, 18" long, less expensive saw guides, no saw, made  
> from 1909 to 1967. Relevant patents: Traut's 6/19/1877 (adjustable,  
> adapting to back or panel saw); Prentice's 6/24/1902 (mechanism &  
> bevel guide); Traut's 1/12/1904 (saw guide & carrier); Traut's  
> 3/15/1904 (moveable stops).
>
> The #60 was the same item supplied with a saw.
>
> Dennis
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

My 346 (why WERE there so damn many versions?) which I have reason to 
suspect is c1912 has Stanley Rule & Level on the tag as does the lovely 
Simonds saw that came with it. Also the semi-circle casting in the front 
that holds the swing arm has four patent dates on it.

I'm not aware of a miter box Type study. If other owners could give some 
information on distinguishing characteristics of theirs I could combine that 
with the patent dates to narrow it down some.

Dennis

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Schobernd" 
To: "Dennis Heyza" 
Cc: ; 
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: [OldTools] Stanley Miter Boxes

> Gentle Dennis and Other Like-Minded Galoots,
>
> Checked the metal tag on the front and we have a Stanley in a notched  box 
> with the SW heart sort of superimposed.  Does that put it in that 
> 1919-1922 era? It would be handy if it did compound mitres, but that  is 
> for another day and another box.  Got too many older and some  lesser ones 
> hanging in the rafters as it is.  They aren't exactly hot  items   unless 
> it it says ...Langdon...! Can't even give 'em away  sometimes for 
> shipping! Thank you for your help.  It had never  crossed my mind to date 
> the thing!  I'm slippin' in  my old age! Paul  in Normal
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 18, 2007, at 1:45 PM, Dennis Heyza wrote:
>
>> Paul in Normal writes -
>>
>>> Gentle Galoots and Dennis
>>
>> Hey, wait a minute! I'm as gentle as the next guy!    ;-)
>>
>>> Now, I am getting a little off kilter  here, where does my 50 1/2  fit 
>>> in the scheme of things with Stanley.   I bought it with an  Atkins 26 
>>> inch?saw and I just love it to death.   I haven't turned  on my chop saw 
>>> in years. I never knew its vintage,  but it is  slick to use.  I don't 
>>> think it had ever been used as there  is no  play in the guides and all 
>>> parts are present and accounted for.   The saw is probably not original. 
>>> It appears newer and was  extremely  sharp.  When was it made, if 
>>> anybody happens to know?  Thanks, Paul in  the prairie snow bank in 
>>> Normal
>>
>> Returning to Walters we find the following on the 50 1/2 -
>>
>> 4 inch capacity, 18" long, less expensive saw guides, no saw, made  from 
>> 1909 to 1967. Relevant patents: Traut's 6/19/1877 (adjustable,  adapting 
>> to back or panel saw); Prentice's 6/24/1902 (mechanism &  bevel guide); 
>> Traut's 1/12/1904 (saw guide & carrier); Traut's  3/15/1904 (moveable 
>> stops).
>>
>> The #60 was the same item supplied with a saw.
>>
>> Dennis
>>
> 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was in the market for a mitre box a month ago and of course picked up 
two just to be safe!. (a stanley 2358 and a miller falls langdon 1285c)  
Spent a lot of time trying to do research and even looked at some old 
stanley catologs.  The 2358 and other 2*** series boxes were priced 
higher than the regular boxes.  They have langdon style saw guides (use 
bearings to support the saw back opposed to langdons brass rods).  I 
think they were marketed as a box for pro shop use more than that of a 
trim carpenter.  My 2358 is probably a latter box, as there is no patent 
dates.  It has the stanley rectangle with notched corners.  It is not 
painted blue however, it is matte black with the adjustment release 
paddle and the edge of the back trimmed in red. 

Jay Moyer
------------------------------------------------------------------------

> My 346 (why WERE there so damn many versions?) which I have reason to
> suspect is c1912 has Stanley Rule & Level on the tag as does the
> lovely Simonds saw that came with it. Also the semi-circle casting in
> the front

> that holds the swing arm has four patent dates on it.
>
> I'm not aware of a miter box Type study. If other owners could
> give some

> information on distinguishing characteristics of theirs I could
> combine
that
> with the patent dates to narrow it down some.
>
> Dennis

Stan Faullin has the catalog pages for the 1909 and 1926 Stanley mitre
boxes as well as the 1926 instructions on his website: http://www.tooltrip.com/t
ooltrip9/stanley/stan-mbox/stan-
mbox.htm

Comparing these would help.

The 1909 description states that the mitre boxes come with Disston saws.
I have a circa 1909 #358 with 4 patents dates with a Disston saw myself,
so I can look at the other details.

Here is a picture of my mitre box and the saw etch: http://galootcentra-
l.com/portal/index.php?option=com_copperminevis&Itemid=&place=displayim-
age&album=41&poshttp://galootcentral.com/portal/index.php?option=com_co-
pperminevis&Itemid=&place=displayimage&album=41&pos Since Simonds only
made handsaws between 1902 and 1926, I'm guessing this might help narrow
down the dates for some mitre boxes, although not as much as patent
dates and Stanley name changes.

On a related note, Jim Barker had a type study of Langdon/Millers Falls
boxes on his website, which is now defunct, but partly available (only
partly due to lost frames, as far as I can tell) here:

http://web.archive.org/web/20041011075621/www.azstarnet.com/~barkerj/In-
tro.htm http://web.archive.org/web/20010310081932/www.azstarnet.com/~ba-
rkerj/Main.htm http://web.archive.org/web/20010310081851/www.azstarnet.-
com/~barkerj/Type15.htm http://web.archive.org/web/20010310082155/www.a-
zstarnet.com/~barkerj/size3.htm http://web.archive.org/web/200103100821-
28/www.azstarnet.com/~barkerj/Nlangdn.htm http://web.archive.org/web/20-
010310082604/www.azstarnet.com/~barkerj/Nlngdni.htm http://web.archive.-
org/web/20010311161815/www.azstarnet.com/~barkerj/Acme.htm http://web.a-
rchive.org/web/20010312181557/www.azstarnet.com/~barkerj/LAcme.htm

Brian Welch Worcester, MA

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not to beat a dead horse (miter box?) but -

My 346 has four patent dates, the last being 1-2-12. There was another 
patent granted on 10/29/12 and the length stops, which mine lacks were 
patented 1916. My saw, which I'll assume is the Simonds #96, is marked 
Simonds Mfg Company (arched) and Fitchburg Mass on the spine. The etch says 
'made expressly for Stanley Rule & Level Co.'. The medallion is the common 
one dated pre-1922 . So I'm dating mine between 1912 and 1916.

Not that it solves anything.   ;^)

Dennis

----- Original Message ----- 
From: 
Subject: Re: [OldTools] Stanley Miter Boxes

> The 1909 description states that the mitre boxes come with Disston saws.
> I have a circa 1909 #358 with 4 patents dates with a Disston saw myself,
> so I can look at the other details.
>
> Since Simonds only made handsaws between 1902 and 1926, I'm guessing
> this might help narrow down the dates for some mitre boxes, although
> not as much as patent dates and Stanley name changes.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

michigaloot@c... wrote on 02/20/2007 05:57:18 PM:

> My 346 has four patent dates, the last being 1-2-12. There was another 
> patent granted on 10/29/12 and the length stops, which mine lacks were 
> patented 1916. My saw, which I'll assume is the Simonds #96, is marked 
> Simonds Mfg Company (arched) and Fitchburg Mass on the spine. The etch 
says 
> 'made expressly for Stanley Rule & Level Co.'. The medallion is the 
common 
> one dated pre-1922 . So I'm dating mine between 1912 and 1916.
> 
> Not that it solves anything.   ;^)
> 
> Dennis

As mentioned before, my 358 with 4 patent dates and a Disston saw has a
different set of four patent dates on the base:
1-12-04  (749,242 --not in DATAMP)
3-15-04  (754,625)
8-2-04  (766,384)
9-27-04  (770,834 --not in DATAMP)

Since Walters says that Stanley started making these in 1905, it sounds 
like mine might be a type 1?  Dennis, how is that type study coming along? 
 
Can you confirm this yet?  ;-)

Brian Welch
Worcester, MA

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Okay, here goes -

The patent dates on Brian's c1905 miter box:

01/12/04, Justus Traut
   Saw guide and carrier (749,242)
03/15/04, Justus Traut
   Foreguide for holding work (754,624)
   Carrier adjustable for saw-blades of varying thickness (754,625)
08/02/04, Francis Richards
   Release mechanism (766,384)
   Clamp for worktables and miter boxes (766,790)
   Saw mechanism, locking, precisionizer, rock shaft union, frame, saw 
guide, etc. (766,791 - 766,799 inclusive)
09/27/04, Justus Traut
   Pivoting arm, bolt locking device (770,834)

The four patent dates in my c1912 miter box:

03/15/04 and 08/02/04 per above plus

10/05/09, Edmund Schade
   Miter box saw support (935,694)
01/02/12, Edmund Schade
   Improved adjusting device for saw carriers and guides (1,013,319)

NOTE: the patent dates are on the front casting, label is mounted to the 
right end of the frame noting The Stanley Rule & Level Company.

Tom's restored 358 has no patent dates on the casting and the label is 
mounted there instead (with Stanley notched logo saying Stanley Rule & Level 
Plant, The Stanley Works). It also has the length stop, patented 10/31/16 by 
Edmund Schade and Christian Bodmer (1,042,976).

There is one more pertinent patent by Austin Stowell dated 03/27/34 
(1,952,518) for a feature that causes the saw blade to be automatically 
raised clear of the table if the swivel is disengaged and roller bearings 
carried by the saw guides.

So figure Type 1 (1905), Type II (1912), Type III (1916) and perhaps Type IV 
(1934). I'd be interested in knowing if anyone has one with the features 
covered by the 1934 patent.

Dennis Heyza
Macomb MI 

------------------------------------------------------------------------