Hello John and Fellow Galoots.

There are many great finishes out there, including Boiled Linseed Oil. But, 
that is one product that will NEVER be found in my shop. Of course with 
careful handling BLO can be safely used and one can obtain great results.

There are just too many accidents that can occur in the shop from a sharp 
tool, debris on the floor and those often occasions when we are not as alert 
as we should be. I find that working in my shop is a comfortable diversion 
from daily life and too often one can be so engrossed with the tasks at hand 
that we can even become somewhat oblivious to our surroundings. That's good 
when it comes to our peace of mind but can be bad when it comes to safety. 
As a practical matter, we tend to concentrate on the actual project we are 
working on and pay less attention to the used rag. Well, it's just an old 
rag and we can easily set it aside and deal with it later. If we remember. 
If we are not interrupted by a call for dinner. Or a phone call.

Ask yourself. How many times do you go into your shop wide awake and totally 
alert? As opposed to how many times do you work in the shop under pressure 
to complete the project. So for me . . .  it's better to eliminate that 
concern and use other products that spontaneous combustion is not a factor. 
Shop safety is often discussed with using power tools, but shop safety is 
rarely discussed outside that venue. Boiled Linseed Oil will NEVER be found 
in my shop.

On the subject of Shop Safety, I would like to hear from our fellow Galoots. 
Come on, lets fess up. I would like to hear about those dumb things we all 
do that we could have avoided. Mine was probably not cleaning up the spilled 
water. It cost me a pulled hamstring. Could have been worse. What say Yee?

Regards,
Huck

-- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Edwards" <johnedwards123@c...>
To: "Old Tools List" <oldtools@r...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 11:50 AM
Subject: [OldTools] Plane Wick Revisted

> GG`s,
> After following the thread on plane wicks last month. Also reading the
> article in PWWing I`ve come to making my own.
> A nice piece of Coccobolo an old oil can and a wadded up gym sock (much 
> like
> BugBear`s) will do the trick.
>
> As I recall there was some debate buried in the discussion on what to use 
> a
> lube. One that would`nt burn the house down (spontaneous combustion) nor
> discolor/cause finishing issues. Seems that Linseed oil was the medium of
> choice (?)
> My searches thus far have only turned up BLO. The stuff that burns houses
> down. Where are my fellow Galoots finding plain old linseed oil ? Or ??
>
> Thanks
> John Edwards
> New Baltimore, Mi.
> Soon to be a slipping and sliding along
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To read the FAQ:
> http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/
>
> OldTools@r...
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fellow galoots,

Col. Huck brings up shop safety, and points out that this is rarely 
discussed with hand tools--mainly because you don't accidently cut off a 
finger with a backsaw, and dropping a chisle is only slightly more 
dangerous that dropping a chef's knife in the kitchen. 

but I don't think the risk of spontaneous combustion (a real risk) is any 
worse than the risk of slipping on water, tripping on the extension cords 
(because the garage has only 2 outlets), or getting a cut from rough sawn 
lumber (not to mention those painful 3 inch slivers of wood because I 
forgot to put on gloves)

I treat all rags (BLO, pain, terps or kerosene/parafin) like they really 
want to catch fire, and cary them outside immediately. Just like I treat 
all extension cords like live snakes, because they are always trying the 
trip me. 

tim
first frost in Raleigh NC tonight--time to move the plants inside

------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Col. writes:
> I would like to hear from our fellow Galoots. Come on, lets fess up. 
> I would like to hear about those dumb things we all do that we could 
> have avoided. Mine was probably not cleaning up the spilled water. 
> It cost me a pulled hamstring. Could have been worse. What say Yee?

My latest and greatest exercise in stupidity was several weeks ago 
when I was paring several parts needing to be held high (about 1 1/2 
feet) above the vice. 11:30 pm. Tired and wanting to get done don't 
mix well.

Chucked another piece in the vice. Went in and made coffee. Came back 
out not realizing I never really cinched down the vice. So with an 1 
1/2" wide Sorby paring in hands, one slip of the piece under pressure 
and a slip of the chisel, and I was left with a couple inch long, 1/4" 
deep slash in my stomach. Didn't feel a thing. Guess I know how to 
sharpen.

Could have been much worse. Dumb nonetheless.

Mike 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Col. R.J. Huck asks:
> ... how many times do you work in the shop under pressure to complete
> the project.
Compl... com... How, um, how do you pronounce that?

And then he goes on:
> I would like to hear about those dumb things we all do that we could
> have avoided.

"Where does it end up if I slip?".  I learned to ask this question of
myself right at the very knees of the porch.  One of the better lessons,
right up there with dealing with combustibles like BLO.

Some time ago, I was taking a paring cut from an oddly shaped piece of
wood.  I was having trouble holding it well enough to pare it, but I
knew that the paring would be quick, clean and easy because I'd just
sharpened the chisels I was using.  Dull stuff is just dangerous and
fustrating to use, and as St. Roy wrote "Life is both too long and too
short to put up with bad tools".  Sharp goes with chisels like butter
goes with toast.

So I answered myself, "Right into the base knuckle of my left thumb,
probably".
"Better be careful", I continued, and got back to work.  Just a few
seconds later, sure enough, I slipped and the chisel went right where I
thought it would.  And there it stopped.  Barely a nick, not much blood
at all.

Turns out I needed more practice sharpening.  I think I've improved some
since then, both in terms of safety and making stuff sharp.  But it
still serves as a reminder that I've got a long ways to go, regardless
of how far I think I might have come.

Ok, put the brooms down, I'm heading back under the porch now.  Thanks,

cur, occasionally doorknob dull in Corvallis

------------------------------------------------------------------------

My shop injuries have been mundane so far: slivers, taking off wispy
shavings of flesh, small cuts on fingers from tight paring maneuvers and
- my specialty - bouncing the saw up onto my guide thumb when starting a
cut.  

Slipping on a wet floor really isn't a problem in my shop because the
second I deviated from a perfectly vertical posture or from a narrowly
defined path, I would fall against something that would hold me up.  You
just can't fall down in a phone booth.  

Blake       

>>> "Col. Richard J. Hucker" <colhuck@s...> 10/26/2005 3:46:30
PM >>>
Hello John and Fellow Galoots.

There are many great finishes out there, including Boiled Linseed Oil.
But, 
that is one product that will NEVER be found in my shop. Of course with

careful handling BLO can be safely used and one can obtain great
results.

There are just too many accidents that can occur in the shop from a
sharp 
tool, debris on the floor and those often occasions when we are not as
alert 
as we should be. I find that working in my shop is a comfortable
diversion 
from daily life and too often one can be so engrossed with the tasks at
hand 
that we can even become somewhat oblivious to our surroundings. That's
good 
when it comes to our peace of mind but can be bad when it comes to
safety. 
As a practical matter, we tend to concentrate on the actual project we
are 
working on and pay less attention to the used rag. Well, it's just an
old 
rag and we can easily set it aside and deal with it later. If we
remember. 
If we are not interrupted by a call for dinner. Or a phone call.

Ask yourself. How many times do you go into your shop wide awake and
totally 
alert? As opposed to how many times do you work in the shop under
pressure 
to complete the project. So for me . . .  it's better to eliminate that

concern and use other products that spontaneous combustion is not a
factor. 
Shop safety is often discussed with using power tools, but shop safety
is 
rarely discussed outside that venue. Boiled Linseed Oil will NEVER be
found 
in my shop.

On the subject of Shop Safety, I would like to hear from our fellow
Galoots. 
Come on, lets fess up. I would like to hear about those dumb things we
all 
do that we could have avoided. Mine was probably not cleaning up the
spilled 
water. It cost me a pulled hamstring. Could have been worse. What say
Yee?

Regards,
Huck

-- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Edwards" <johnedwards123@c...>
To: "Old Tools List" <oldtools@r...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 11:50 AM
Subject: [OldTools] Plane Wick Revisted

> GG`s,
> After following the thread on plane wicks last month. Also reading
the
> article in PWWing I`ve come to making my own.
> A nice piece of Coccobolo an old oil can and a wadded up gym sock
(much 
> like
> BugBear`s) will do the trick.
>
> As I recall there was some debate buried in the discussion on what to
use 
> a
> lube. One that would`nt burn the house down (spontaneous combustion)
nor
> discolor/cause finishing issues. Seems that Linseed oil was the
medium of
> choice (?)
> My searches thus far have only turned up BLO. The stuff that burns
houses
> down. Where are my fellow Galoots finding plain old linseed oil ? Or
??
>
> Thanks
> John Edwards
> New Baltimore, Mi.
> Soon to be a slipping and sliding along
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history,
usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To read the FAQ:
> http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html 
>
> OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/

>
> OldTools@r... 
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

GG,

The Col. writes:
> I would like to hear from our fellow Galoots. Come on, lets fess up.
> I would like to hear about those dumb things we all do that we could
> have avoided. Mine was probably not cleaning up the spilled water.
> It cost me a pulled hamstring. Could have been worse. What say Yee?

 You just can't really hurt youself with a handsaw...did I hear someone
say that?
 Many years ago when I was but a pup, while I was cutting a board with a
handsaw I managed thru inattention to saw the back of my thumb at the
hand to thumb joint badly enough to require four stitches. Cut a little
vessel and had a nice little red fountain going when mother walked into
the bathroom to see what I'd done. (Still got the scar and the saw!) But
that was nothing compared to shortening my left middle finger by removing
the last joint with a t*bl*s*w. The ts incident was about a $20,000 f/u
and kept me out of the shop for four months. And the 20G's doesn't count
the money I've spent on handtools...
 With the rags I use I let whatever is on them, if other than water and
glue, dry thoroughly outside before putting them in my mesh ragbag till I
have enough for a trip to the laundromat. They are not allowed in SWMBO's
washer and dryer.
roy

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Col Huck writes:

Hello John and Fellow Galoots.

<snip>

On the subject of Shop Safety, I would like to hear from our fellow Galoots.
Come on, lets fess up. I would like to hear about those dumb things we all
do that we could have avoided.

Regards,
Huck

Confession is good for the soul, so I hear, and mine could use some 
improvement.

Safety goofs

1.  Not listening to wood on my lathe.  Turned a plate from an old strip 
"butcher block" maple counter top.  Speeded up the lathe to apply finish, 
and heard a funny noise.  Stopped the lathe to check, but didn't check well. 
Speeded up the lathe further to burn in the wax and heard a loud crack 
followed by blow to the forearm and stomach.  The old glue joints had let go 
under centripetal force, and blew the plate sky high.  It only took 14 days 
for the welt on my arm to disappear.  (I was wearing my mask to make up for 
other dumb things I did.)

2.  Moving too fast.  The lock down arm on the fence on my t@b...$@w sticks 
out, no matter what.  When its covered, I've walked into it several times, 
because I am moving too fast and thinking about the destination, not the 
journey.  No visible injuries, yet.

3.  Holding a piece down while I planed it.  Fortunately the plane was 
taking very thin shavings, so I only lost a small piece of skin off my 
thumb.

Walt C 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Walt Cheever wrote:

> Col Huck writes:
>
> Hello John and Fellow Galoots.
>
> <snip>
>
> On the subject of Shop Safety, I would like to hear from our fellow 
> Galoots.
> Come on, lets fess up. I would like to hear about those dumb things we 
> all
> do that we could have avoided.

Hi all,

When I were but a callow "first year in" apprentice back in 1969 we were 
given training
in a multitude of disciplines.  Even though I was an apprentice 
electrical fitter/mechanic
I was give a year's instruction in machining, welding, spray painting, 
mechanical fitting,
electrical wiring basics etc.

Now to the story.....
One young lad was given the task of spray painting a small electrical 
switchboard panel.
Foreman: "Use the paint stirrer in the pedestal drill to mix the paint 
and use a very
slow speed". (Guess what comes next)
Mixer was duly tightened in the drill chuck, gallon bucket of paint 
opened and ready for mixing.
Pulleys adjusted on drill press to give the required speed.
Paint can placed on drill table and table adjusted to correct height.
Drill set in motion, mixer lowered into paint.
(The mixer was like a small propeller on the end of a steel rod)
Well, there was a huge KERBANG, BANG, BANG , BANG noise.....paint flew 
everywhere,
coated the apprentice, the drill, the wall, the opposite wall (40 feet 
away), lathes, shaping
machines, slotting machine....everything within a 50 foot radius had 
dollops of grey paint.

He (apprentice) had succumbed to a "senior moment" at age 17 and muddled 
up the
little pulley driving the big pulley logic.
 From the drill speed chart we found he had tried to mix paint at around 
3100 rpm.
The mixed had dug in to the bottom of the paint can, the can was 
effectively
rotating at 3100 rpm for a short while!

Imagine the paperwork if that happened today!
Not to mention the big "no-no" of giving a paint drenched apprentice a 
container
of solvent and telling him to "go and clean yourself up"!!

And no it wasn't me.

Peter B,  NSW Australia

------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Oct 26, 2005, at 3:46 PM, Col. Richard J. Hucker wrote:
> . . . . Boiled Linseed Oil will NEVER be found in my shop.
> On the subject of Shop Safety, I would like to hear from our fellow  
> Galoots.

Geez Colonel, this sounds a little extreme to me.  I mean, I imagine  
that over the last century or so there have been hundreds of  
thousands, maybe millions, of shops in which Boiled Linseed Oil could  
been found, and I daresay that only a very small percentage of them  
have burned down in fires caused by BLO.  Can't you just be  
reasonably careful with the rags you use to wipe it around?
     If you were to apply the same maxim to all things that pose a  
danger to your person and/or property, there there would be no edge  
tools in your shop, along with a bunch of other chemical compounds.
         Tom Holloway,
who actually had an experience with spontaneous combustion of BLO  
soaked wad of paper towels, and lived to tell the tale (it's there in  
the archives, but I can't remember the sub. line to look it up).
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Glad you made it out alive Tom. Take care. 

Regards,
Huck

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Holloway" <holloway@n...>
To: "Old Tools List" <oldtools@r...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: [OldTools] Shop Safety

> On Oct 26, 2005, at 3:46 PM, Col. Richard J. Hucker wrote:
>> . . . . Boiled Linseed Oil will NEVER be found in my shop.
>> On the subject of Shop Safety, I would like to hear from our fellow  
>> Galoots.
> 
> Geez Colonel, this sounds a little extreme to me.  I mean, I imagine  
> that over the last century or so there have been hundreds of  
> thousands, maybe millions, of shops in which Boiled Linseed Oil could  
> been found, and I daresay that only a very small percentage of them  
> have burned down in fires caused by BLO.  Can't you just be  
> reasonably careful with the rags you use to wipe it around?
>     If you were to apply the same maxim to all things that pose a  
> danger to your person and/or property, there there would be no edge  
> tools in your shop, along with a bunch of other chemical compounds.
>         Tom Holloway,
> who actually had an experience with spontaneous combustion of BLO  
> soaked wad of paper towels, and lived to tell the tale (it's there in  
> the archives, but I can't remember the sub. line to look it up).
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
> 
> To read the FAQ:
> http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html
> 
> OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/
> 
> OldTools@r...
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Wednesday 26 October 2005 23:13, Tom Holloway wrote:
> On Oct 26, 2005, at 3:46 PM, Col. Richard J. Hucker wrote:
> > . . . . Boiled Linseed Oil will NEVER be found in my shop.
> > On the subject of Shop Safety, I would like to hear from our fellow  
> > Galoots.
> 
> Geez Colonel, this sounds a little extreme to me.  I mean, I imagine  
> that over the last century or so there have been hundreds of  
> thousands, maybe millions, of shops in which Boiled Linseed Oil could  
> been found, and I daresay that only a very small percentage of them  
> have burned down in fires caused by BLO.  Can't you just be  
> reasonably careful with the rags you use to wipe it around?

I agree that this appears a bit extreme, but it is a fact that there are more 
fires caused in residential structure by combustible products than any other 
form of fire. It is wise to be educated in this area, IMO.

However, it is not just BLO, it's a good majority of finishes that have any 
type of linseed oil in it (many do;-). So is one to avoid finishes? Use 
shellac? Is shellac combustible? I don't think it is. Seems a good reason to 
use it.

Richard, how do you finish your woodwork?

Speaking for myself, I try to be very careful with all finishes. After using 
any mixture with BLO, I try to put the cloth(s) out in the driveway to dry 
off, and then move them out to the curb for a day, then throw them out, wet, 
in a ziploc.

I haven't had a combustion fire, but we did have an oil fire in our kitchen 
about 7 or 8 years ago, and lived through that one. It seemed every bit as 
dangerous as a combustion fire, at the time...:-/

In general, preventing residential fires is a good thing, but to elliminate 
combustible products due to it seems a little much. 

-- 

Alan DuBoff
Software Orchestration
GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE

------------------------------------------------------------------------

>On the subject of Shop Safety, I would like to hear from our fellow Galoots. 
>Come on, lets fess up. I would like to hear about those dumb things we all 
>do that we could have avoided.

Ok. You asked for dumb.

A couple of years ago (before workbench 
was finished) I had a very flat, thin piece 
of wood that I wanted to plane a bit thiner. 
The problem was that I didn't have anything 
to hold it with. So I held my Jack plane in
one hand and pushed the piece of wood over
the sole of the plane with the other. (I,m
now starting to laugh as I write this)

My hand slipped and I took the skin off the
tips of three fingers and trimmed my fingernails
while I was at it. It bled a lot. It hurt. It
hindered my woodwork for two weeks.

Nuff said

Stephen Andrews, Berkshire, UK

visit my web site at:

http://uk.geocities.com/sapele_bench/

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well Alan I certainly can't claim to be an expert on finishing. I am still 
quite the novice. But, I have kinda stuck with the many products offered by 
Minwax. I have used their various stains and have used their satin clear 
brushing lacquer with good results. A second coat of lacquer may be applied 
without sanding in between coats. They have a wide variety of floor finishes 
and we have used their Satin Poly for our hardwood floors. It's very 
durable. Other than that, I have generally used shellac, tung oil, Danish 
Oil and Varnish on occasion depending on the finish I want on a particular 
piece. I don't have enough long term experience with these finishes to be in 
a position to make a value judgment.

Don't get me wrong. I am not opposed to BLO by any means as a method of 
finishing. I just know me. I am careful with the edge tools that I value. 
But, I don't want my carelessness with old rags to become an issue and an 
unnecessary fire hazard. And neither does SWMBO. As far as any rags used for 
finishing. They end up in a large old can from xmas cookies sealed with a 
lid that sits on the floor near my finishing bench.. Every now and again I 
will donate them to the garbage man.

Regards,
Huck

Alan said. . . .
> I agree that this appears a bit extreme, but it is a fact that there are 
> more
> fires caused in residential structure by combustible products than any 
> other
> form of fire. It is wise to be educated in this area, IMO.
>
> However, it is not just BLO, it's a good majority of finishes that have 
> any
> type of linseed oil in it (many do;-). So is one to avoid finishes? Use
> shellac? Is shellac combustible? I don't think it is. Seems a good reason 
> to
> use it.
>
> Richard, how do you finish your woodwork?
>
> Speaking for myself, I try to be very careful with all finishes. After 
> using
> any mixture with BLO, I try to put the cloth(s) out in the driveway to dry
> off, and then move them out to the curb for a day, then throw them out, 
> wet,
> in a ziploc.
>
> I haven't had a combustion fire, but we did have an oil fire in our 
> kitchen
> about 7 or 8 years ago, and lived through that one. It seemed every bit as
> dangerous as a combustion fire, at the time...:-/
>
> In general, preventing residential fires is a good thing, but to 
> elliminate
> combustible products due to it seems a little much.
>
> -- 
>
> Alan DuBoff
> Software Orchestration
> GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To read the FAQ:
> http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/
>
> OldTools@r...
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mike Wenzloff wrote:
> The Col. writes:
>
>> I would like to hear from our fellow Galoots. Come on, lets fess up.
>> I would like to hear about those dumb things we all do that we could
>> have avoided. Mine was probably not cleaning up the spilled water. It
>> cost me a pulled hamstring. Could have been worse. What say Yee?

Long ago, in a posting far, far away... http://nika.frontier.iarc.uaf.e-
du/~cswingle/archive/get.phtml?message_id=57918#message

    BugBear
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, let me tell a story that didn't happen to me, but rather to a friend
of an uncle.  This ain't a yarn!  About a dozen years or so ago, a friend
and I traveled to visit my great uncle (my Father's uncle, this guy didn't
do anything really remarkable except to get under the skin of all other
relatives).  

The purpose of the visit was to retrieve a barn timber from which my Father
and I would fashion a mantle piece for a stone fireplace in the bar (gin
palace, Jeff) my Father had.  Anyhow, my great uncle would lead us to one of
his friend's barn from which we could obtain the timber.  The barn was
located several miles away and was basically a gathering place/hunting camp
for a group of late seventy-something gentlemen, one of which was my uncle.
All were hobbyist woodworkers and all worked in the north central
Pennsylvania coal mines in their younger years.

Anyhow, upon arriving at the farm, my uncle took us in to introduce us to
the guys that happened to be there that day.  No one lived at the farm, but
there were always people around.  On that particular day, one of the elderly
gentlemen was butchering a pig on the kitchen table.

Anyhow, back to shop safety!  My uncle introduced me as a fellow woodworker,
and one of his buddies (the guy who owned the farm) said come on up to the
barn and I'll show you my shop, and then we'll dig out the barn beam I was
to haul home.

His barn was basically void of electricity, except in the lower level.  His
shop equipment was on the first floor and consisted of an old radial arm saw
and jointer, both of which were powered by a line-shaft arrangement with a
common electric motor in the lower level.

Being in a barn, the floors were not what you would call exactly level!
Further, the old radial arm saw had a very loose carriage that would follow
gravity and slide to the front of the saw!  To make matters worse, since
there is no "buzzing" of an electric motor (remember--line shaft), you
really wouldn't know the saw is running!  Finally, the barn did not have
lights on this level!

Anyhow, the old gentlemen told me that one night he was working on a project
and he knew it was getting too late, as it was already dusk outside and very
dim around the saw.  He felt a pinch on his hand and went outside to see how
bad was the cut.  He found that he nipped off a finger!  He then went back
in to retrieve the lost digit to see if it could be re-attached.  The finger
was on the saw table, and the saw carriage was at the front of the saw.  He
pushed the saw carriage back and went to pick up the finger and felt another
pinch!  Went outside to find he took off another finger!

These old galoots sometimes have very hard heads, as he never did anything
to change his shop set-up, including adding lights!  My Father always told
me that you could tell how long carpenters were in the trade, by how many
fingers they had left!

Tony Z.

-----Original Message-----
From: oldtools-bounces@r...
[mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Col. Richard
J. Hucker
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 6:47 PM
To: John Edwards; Old Tools List
Subject: [OldTools] Shop Safety

>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To read the FAQ:
> http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/
>
> OldTools@r...
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 I would like to hear from our fellow Galoots. Come on, lets fess up. I
>> would like to hear about those dumb things we all do that we could
>> have avoided.

It didn't happen to me, but two experienced woodworkers had to have fingers
amputated from accidents with electron powered j**nt*rs.  This was in my
home town in the late sixties.  The first man to cut his fingers off was a
fireman who moonlighted as a contractor and it was an accident.  The second
man was his good friend who also was a contractor.  He was demonstrating how
the first man cut off his fingers. I don't know for sure if they cut them
off or they had to be amputated at the hospital.  Notice how most of these
stories are electron related.

The man that taught me woodworking told me at the start to always know where
your hands are in relation to the tool you are using.  When he died he had
all his fingers and I still have all of mine.

While not shop related, my father when he was a little boy was following his
older sister around behind the lawn mower she was pushing.  He took a stick
and watched it being clipped off by the  mower.  It got to the end of the
stick and the mower clipped off the ends of three fingers.  They tried to
find the ends of his fingers to have them sewed back on, but the chickens
had eaten them.

Be careful out there.

Gary L. White
Near Ainsworth, Iowa
So many tools.... so few dollars.
Leave the Rust to Us.
White Sox Win.  Next year its the Cubs turn.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lycoming Gazette Williamsport, PA

5 Nov. 1828

Accident ­ William EDWARDS, and apprentice to a 
gun-smith in Muncy Borough, having received, on 
Wednesday last, an old gun to repair, and in 
order to get out the breech, put it into his 
smith's fire, and began to blow his bellows, when 
an explosion took place from a charge which is 
said to have remained in the barrel for nine 
years ­ the whole contents entered the young 
man's groin and came out at his hip. He died in 
35 minutes afterwards ­ he had been cautioned of 
a charge being in the gun barrel.

Tony (who has used more linseed oil than he cares 
to think about over the years without a problem..)

                         Olde River Hard Goods
                             350 West Catawissa Street
                               Nesquehoning PA 18240
                                         570-669-9421
               The best old tool store in Pennsylvania!
                     http://www.oldetoolshop.com  

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Greetings to all Galoots,

I use BLO, but am extremely careful in disposing of any rag used to wipe
or apply any drying oil based finish.  A friend of mine, David Emerson
of Canterbury NH, who is a full time pro woodworker was several years
ago the victim of the carelessness of his employee.  BLO had been being
used to finish some steam bent red oak parts while Dave was at the
Sunapee Fair and said employee forgot to take and put the used rags in
the wood stove as had been the standard procedure for disposal.  Later,
Dave and his wife were eating dinner when they smelled smoke.  They
investigated and found tall flames coming from the shop 100 yards away.
 The phone wouldn't work as the line went from the shop to the house and
had already been burned through.  A quick drive to a neighbors house 1/2
mile away to call the fire department.  The volunteer department arrived
15 minutes later from the other side of town along with a photographer
from the Concord Moniter.  Spectacular flames over 100 feet tall lit
the night sky and the fire brigade watched helplessly as the place
burned to the ground and scorched and defoliated every tree within 50
yards.  The color photo made the front page of the next days paper.

Dave was lucky.  He was insured and as a member of our guild had a lot
of friends.  3 months later we had built him a completely new shop.

Do not underestimate the potential for spontaneous combustion or you
could be the protagonist of a tale like this.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Thursday 27 October 2005 03:27, Col. Richard J. Hucker wrote:
> Well Alan I certainly can't claim to be an expert on finishing. I am still 
> quite the novice. But, I have kinda stuck with the many products offered by 
> Minwax. I have used their various stains and have used their satin clear 
> brushing lacquer with good results.

I believe if I'm not mistaken that those products are combustible, so will 
face the same problems that BLO will. Many oil type finishes are combustible, 
AFAIK.

> But, I don't want my carelessness with old rags to become an issue and an 
> unnecessary fire hazard. And neither does SWMBO.

In this case though it's best to get a metal can that is designed for such 
use.

> As far as any rags used for 
> finishing. They end up in a large old can from xmas cookies sealed with a 
> lid that sits on the floor near my finishing bench.. Every now and again I 
> will donate them to the garbage man.

At least you're doing what you can to prevent it, so I'm not sure why you 
wouldn't keep BLO in your shop if it was sealed up.

I have a can I mix up with Minwax Polyurathene Satin, BLO, and mineral 
spirits. I just wipe it on. It's the BLO that brings out the grain though.

-- 

Alan DuBoff
Software Orchestration
GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alan wrote:
>>>I agree that this appears a bit extreme, but it is a fact that
there are more fires caused in residential structure by combustible
products than any other form of fire...

Hi Alan---
  Who published this statistic and what does it actually mean? As
compared to fires caused by NON-combustible products, maybe? A fire
"caused" by combustible products would require spontaneous
combustion, in my mind. And where it's a known risk, like in piles of
rags drenched with BLO, it's sketchy to use the word "caused".
  Fires caused by careless handling of flammables should be a
distinguished as such---guys who clean auto parts in gasoline, or
flea dip their dogs in kerosene "cause" the resulting fires, the
fuels don't. 
  I cringe when I consider the amount of flammable stuff that sits
around in my house, and in my shop.  If a fire ever starts at my
place, all the homes on the block will probably go. But who among us
doesn't have a carful of gasoline nearby, perhaps even INSIDE the
house? Reasonable care provides reasonable security.
           knocking wood with bleeding knuckles; gAM in Seattle

--- Alan DuBoff <aland@s...> wrote:

> > On Oct 26, 2005, at 3:46 PM, Col. Richard J. Hucker wrote:
> > > . . . . Boiled Linseed Oil will NEVER be found in my shop.
> > > On the subject of Shop Safety, I would like to hear from our
> fellow  
> > > Galoots.
> > 
> > Geez Colonel, this sounds a little extreme to me.  I mean, I
> imagine  
> > that over the last century or so there have been hundreds of  
> > thousands, maybe millions, of shops in which Boiled Linseed Oil
> could  
> > been found, and I daresay that only a very small percentage of
> them  
> > have burned down in fires caused by BLO.  Can't you just be  
> > reasonably careful with the rags you use to wipe it around?

...save the people from the worst of all tyrants, themselves.  
                           Robert A Heinlein

	
		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Thursday 27 October 2005 12:28, gary may wrote:
> Alan wrote:
> >>>I agree that this appears a bit extreme, but it is a fact that
> there are more fires caused in residential structure by combustible
> products than any other form of fire...
> 
> Hi Alan---
>   Who published this statistic and what does it actually mean? As
> compared to fires caused by NON-combustible products, maybe? A fire
> "caused" by combustible products would require spontaneous
> combustion, in my mind. And where it's a known risk, like in piles of
> rags drenched with BLO, it's sketchy to use the word "caused".

Where I got the information from was our local fire chief, when he was at our 
house for an oil fire in the kitchen. Yes, it is correct that it requires 
some spontaneous combustion, that's where the accident comes in. There was 
also a different fire chief on WoodNet a while ago that mimicked that, so 
it's not just in my area.

BTW, any fire is dangerous, it's not the BLO, or the other finish products, 
it's the fact that that is what causes the fire to start. It's oxegyn that 
fuels fires

>   Fires caused by careless handling of flammables should be a
> distinguished as such---guys who clean auto parts in gasoline, or
> flea dip their dogs in kerosene "cause" the resulting fires, the
> fuels don't. 

But it's way to easy to happen with most finish type products for wood, as we 
use.

>   I cringe when I consider the amount of flammable stuff that sits
> around in my house, and in my shop.  If a fire ever starts at my
> place, all the homes on the block will probably go. But who among us
> doesn't have a carful of gasoline nearby, perhaps even INSIDE the
> house? Reasonable care provides reasonable security.
>            knocking wood with bleeding knuckles; gAM in Seattle

You're bigger worry is the amount of air in your attic, or anywhere else in 
the house. Once a fire starts, it's the oxegen that fuels it, so once it gets 
through the ceiling to the attic, it only takes minutes for an entire house 
to go up in flames and burn it all to the ground. At my house we were lucky, 
it burned through the ceiling, but that's right when the fire department got 
there. There was a lot of damage from the fire fighters, broken counters, 
doors, etc...but my hat is off to them, they got the fire out and there was 
very little structural damage.

Spontaneous combustion is a big enough problem that the fire cheif made a 
point to explain it to us and asked that we ensure that we take extra caution 
with such flamables.

-- 

Alan DuBoff
Software Orchestration
GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE

------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Thursday 27 October 2005 12:46, Alan DuBoff wrote:
> BTW, any fire is dangerous, it's not the BLO, or the other finish products, 
> it's the fact that that is what causes the fire to start. It's oxegyn that 
> fuels fires

BTW, I just wanted to add this point. When my wife caused the oil fire in our 
kitchen, she was afraid to fry foods on the stove after that. This was an 
accident that most anyone could have had happen, and my wife is an excellent 
cook who teaches cooking classes, so she knows what she is doing.

Saying "I never allow BLO in my shop" is very similar to my wife saying, "I 
will never allow oil in our kitchen again".

As everything in life, the best preparation is education. Knowing what causes 
the spontaneous combustion, knowing how to prevent it, and knowing how it 
happens will all go a long way to creating a safe work environment.

BLO kicks @$$, IMO. It brings out the grain like nothing else and really 
makes for a beautiful finish. Many other finishes use linseed oil, raw, 
boiled, and other...

-- 

Alan DuBoff
Software Orchestration
GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE

------------------------------------------------------------------------

There's been a lot of talk about dealing with flammable materials, their
storage, their disposal, even the merits of their being banned
altogether. Unless I missed it somewhere, nobody has mention the
required (IMHO) presence of a properly charged, inspected and maintained
ABC-class fire extinguisher in their shop (and, as Alan's mention of a
kitchen grease fire prompts me to add, their kitchen).

Am I stating the obvious here? Hope so....

 - Bob

------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Thursday 27 October 2005 12:28, gary may wrote:
> A fire
> "caused" by combustible products would require spontaneous
> combustion, in my mind.

Yes, I thought this part was understood, didn't mean not to include the 
spontaneous which I was talking about.

-- 

Alan DuBoff (almost forgot the meaning of splittin' @$$#O!E hairs)
Software Orchestration
GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE

------------------------------------------------------------------------

--- Alan DuBoff <aland@s...> wrote:
> I agree that this appears a bit extreme, but it
> is a fact that there are more fires caused in
residential structure by combustible
 products than any other form of fire...
 

ALL of the house fires that I have personal knowledge
of were caused by electrical malfunctions--okay, it is
only 3 or 4 fires of relatives or friends in the last
40+ years--so avoiding those tailed apprentices is an
obvious start in avoiding shop fires.  And keep that
BLO confined too.

Jim Erdman  (in Menomonie, WI)

		
__________________________________ 
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey Al,

Is this why SWMBO says I need a mouth guard?  I never understood.

> bad American beer, Jeff). So those of you who decide to go out and play 
> with green wood, pay attention. And where a mouth guard at all times.

I just stuck a gouge in my left thumb the other day.  I was sharpening it
on an abrasive-wrapped dowel, holding one end in my left hand.  It was
almost as bad as a silly incident with a utility knife.  I had a lot of thin
pine I wanted to use as kindling.  I was splitting it towards me with the
knife.  If you ever see a 3" white line on my left forearm, now you know.

One of the worst I saw was in a metal shop I worked in for a while.  The
shop convention was that blades were red, blade guards yellow, and the
rest of the equipment green.  It took three idiots.  The first painted the
guard, *and the blade* yellow on the 3-foot shear table.  The second
took the blade guard off to get a piece in that was irregularly shaped.
The third, who paid most of the penalty for all of them, just didn't realize
he was the third.  Three fingers from his left hand - two inches off his
index finger, slanting down to about an inch off the ring finger.

The worst was in the metal shop, but not while I was there. It involved a
vertical milling machine.  There was one guy who got fired for not keeping
his ponytail tied tight.  He broke the rules by coming back to visit while
the manager was out, and he was within the safety zone on the vertical
mill when someone called across the shop to tell him that the manager
was coming back in.  He turned quickly.

That old machine had partial belt guards.  They covered the pulleys and
went out a bit and were fine for keeping fingers out of the area where
they could get pinched (well, OK - sheared off).  But they didn't work
too good when he swung about 10" of long, greasy hair into them.  The
other hair-in-the-belt accidents I saw or heard about were all scalpings.
This was different.  When his hair grabbed, the side of his skull hit the
belt guard with major force.  The resulting depressed fracture gave him
permanent brain damage.

That kind of thing could spoil your whole day!

Gary K
Close to Buffalo NY

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alan Perreault wrote:
> Fellow Clotting Factor Enthusiasts -
> 
> Ok, someone asked for stupid how you hurt yourself stories, here's 
> mine for today:
> 
(snip of beer drinkin' tooth bashin' story)

Here's three of mine, culled from past posts. Sadly enough, I apparently
don't need no steenking powah tools to cause mayhem in the shop...

> I pulled a good one last week. I was testing a newly sharpened auger 
> bit by drilling into a piece of maple scrap in my end vise. The piece
> was clamped in the vise without a backing piece and was suspended
> above the screw and guide rods. I was drilling by using my forehead
> on the back of my hand to apply some pressure. Yep, it were sharp all
> right. I went through the piece of maple and the bit rebounded off of
> the vice screw. My forehead was a split second behind and I knocked
> myself silly on the pad of the brace. I saw stars. But the bit was
> OK. The bit was FINE. Russell Jennings used good steel

No blood involved in that one, thankfully. Most of my boo-boos have been
chisel related. My worst saw related injury was actually while SHARPENNG
a saw...

> At one point, the file slipped out of my old E.C. Atkins saw jointer
>  and I rammed my thumb right down on the saw blade. SWMBOette heard
> me voicing my disappointment and with great certainty said to SWMBO,
>  "Daddy cut himself." SWMBO called down to the basement, "Dear, did 
> you cut yourself?" I replied that yes, yes I had indeed *freaking* 
> cut my *dad-blamed* thumb. Or words to that effect. My children do 
> not curse, as a rule, but I am afraid I have inadvertently provided 
> them with a rich vocabulary should they ever decide to make use of 
> it.

My children still don't curse to any extent. Like some of you, I've had
my share of chisel stab wounds...

> Worst thing I've done (well, except for the Routah Incident) was to 
> ram a  chisel into my hand with my knee. (Rockers stop and Porch 
> denizens lean  over to stare at me) I know, this one is tough to do 
> unless You're Really Not Thinking. I was using a big paring chisel 
> and laid it down on my saw  horse for some reason.  I decided to move
>  the saw horse at some point and in the process of moving it, drove 
> the corner of the chisel into my right hand with my knee. It were 
> bloody but I didn't go for stitches

I won't go into detail on the Routah Incident except to say that it
happened while I was in graduate school and occurred in my best friend's
shop. He and his SWMBO were out at a movie at the time. I left to go to
the emergency room by the time they got home. He later said that it
looked like I'd been killing chickens in his basement. 40 teeny-tiny
stitches in the end of my right index finger.

Oh, and there's always the Chisel On Toe Incident:

http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/uh_oh.html

Well, I'm more careful now. Can say that I've never had a plane related
injury. That's something.
****************************
Tom Price (tomprice03@g...)
Will Work For Tools
The Galoot's Progress Old Tools site is at:
http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/galtprog.html

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why do I get the feeling that if Ron Harper were still on the Porch, he'd
just mutter "amateurs?"

Steve Noe, in Indianapolis
dandsnoe@m...
"I know no class of my fellowmen, however
just, enlightened, and humane,
which can be wisely and safely trusted
absolutely with the liberties of any other class."
 --Fredrick Douglass

------------------------------------------------------------------------

And then of course, there's the infamous Gunterman cellar stairs
pipe-clamp-in-the-groin pole-vault event...

- Bill Taggart
- not that I've ever bled on any of my projects, no sirree, not me... <sigh>
if the name "casa del chisel stab wound" weren't already taken...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: oldtools-bounces@r... 
> [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of 
> Steve and Dianne Noe
> Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 10:52 AM
> To: Tom Price; oldtools@r...
> Subject: Re: [OldTools] Shop Safety
> 
> 
> Why do I get the feeling that if Ron Harper were still on the 
> Porch, he'd just mutter "amateurs?"
> 
> Steve Noe, in Indianapolis
> dandsnoe@m...
> "I know no class of my fellowmen, however
> just, enlightened, and humane,
> which can be wisely and safely trusted
> absolutely with the liberties of any other class."
>  --Fredrick Douglass
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand 
> tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the 
> history, usage, value, location, availability, 
> collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, 
> especially woodworking tools.
> 
> To read the FAQ: 
> http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/> ~cswingle/archive/faq.html
> 
> 
> OldTools archive: 
> http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/
> 
> OldTools@r... 
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailma> n/listinfo/oldtools
> 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 In the house he goes, spittin blood in the
> sink, then he turns and 
> smiles at me, and all four of his front teeth are
> gone clean at the gum 
> line. 

I hope you wrapped up the teeth in a clean tablecloth
and got him to a dentist quick........

HB

		
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