Thanks Darren, for taking the time to share your observations about
shill bidding.  I've gotten kind of addicted to *B*y and I've found it
interesting.

As I've gotten (slowly) more sophosticated in using *B*y, I've
started checking things like seller's other auctions, and other auctions
bid on by those bidding on ones I'm interested in.  This discussion
has given me more information and might make me a little better
at buying and selling online.

I haven't seen any accusations from anybody about anybody else,
or statements that any series of circumstances -prove- that a bidder
is a shill bidder.  As I understand it, this is just something to look
for, not a major crusade.

For myself, if I think someone meets the pattern for a shill bidder, I
will probably not bid against them.  If they -are- a shill bidder, then
I haven't played their game.  If they're not, they clearly are trying to
get an item over and over.  I can let them have that one; there will
always be another auction at another time. I win enough; I don't
have to win everything!

Gary K
Close to Buffalo NY

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "CheekyGeek" <cheekygeek@w...>
To: "oldtools" <oldtools@c...>
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 8:40 AM
Subject: [oldtools] Re: eBay: How to identify a shill bidder (sorta
long)

> George objects to:
> >> Your first hint that a seller may be utilizing shill bidding
> >> accounts is when you see what is normally a pretty high dollar
> >> tool offered with No Reserve.
>
> >Waitaminnit.
>
> Not sure why everybody seems to stop reading to make an objection at
this
> point.
> I'm not saying that everybody that does this IS a shill bidder, but
that
> they HAVE satisfied the first condition. Keep reading folks.
> Todd makes a similar mistake with:
>
> > All this is sort of interesting I guess but sure doesn't mean
nothing.Sort
> >of like saying the best way to spot a Bank Robber is to look for a
guy
> >wearing a pair of pants coming out of a bank with some money.Pretty
sure
> >this describes most bank robbers but all people described such will
not be
> >bank robbers and they may not appreciate be called robbers....
>
> While what Todd says here is certainly true, is a very poor analogy
and
> missed the point of my original post.
> A shill bidder is identified with a very high degree of certainty if
he
> meets a SERIES of conditions that I outlined in my letter. The first
> condition is generally that he is selling good stuff with No Reserve.
> This simply means that you are probably wasting your time to
investigate
> Reserve Auctions for shill bids. You are also probably wasting your
time
> to investigate a guy who starts his Stanley No. 62 off with an opening
> bid of $199. It doesn't mean that EVERYBODY who sells without a
reserve
> is using shill bids. It DOES mean that they have satisfied the first
> condition, however.
>
> A guy walking out of a bank with a bag of money may have gotten it
> legitimately too. The test is to check the other conditions. Is he
also
> wearing a ski mask? Maybe it's cold out, but maybe he just satisfied a
> 2nd condition. Do the security cameras show that he brandished a gun?
The
> more conditions that are met, the harder it becomes to explain away as
> legitimate. Same is true in identifying a shill bidder (as opposed to
> someone who is simply selling legitimately without a reserve).
>
> Stopping at the first condition to object to what I was saying is
failing
> to grasp the entire argument.
> It's like the old saying "If it looks like a duck, it walks like a
duck,
> and it sounds like a duck... it's probably a duck."
> You guys are making it out like I'm saying "if it walks like a duck,
it's
> a duck".  Nope. It's gotta meet ALL the conditions to have the highest
> degree of certainty.
>
> Darren Addy
> Kearney, Nebraska
>
>
>
> Archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/
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