Dear Galoots,

Yesterday I found an excellent book at the local recycling
shop, it was $2 and in good condition. See a tiny snippet...
http://www.wood-workers.com/users/williams/books/tpmbottmad.html
including a treadle powered circular sawbench to make.
This is was published in 1939 and has lots of woodwork and
hand tools stuff, including plans and instructions for
building a complete house.

Brian Welch may be amused to see this unorthodox use of
an old turnscrew
http://www.wood-workers.com/users/williams/oddpics/norty-turnscrew.jpg

Peter Williams            | Tel +61 3 5279 7456
Network support/Webmaster | Fax +61 3 5279 7414
Hendersons Industries     | peter.williams@h...
PO Box 4 Nth Geelong 3215 | http://www.hendersons.com.au/
 

Bonjour Peter,

Nice find! Thanks for putting up the information on the
treadle saw. I noticed on the cover that there is a bench
mounted press drill that seems to be made with a breast drill. 
Any chances of posting the instructions on making it?

Anybody else has information on that type of conversion?
I've never seen a press drill in the wild in my area...

Best,

Louis Michaud
Rimouski, Quebec 

Hi Peter & All,

Peter shows a clip from a book showing what he calls an "unorthodox" use
of a turnscrew. Not at all unorthodox to those of us who date back to
the ice ages when cars had mechanical ignition distributers and spark
plugs that needed to be replaced (or at least cleaned and reset) about
every 3000 miles. Using a screwdriver to check plug ignition was
standard practice in those daays; many motorists who didn't even know
enough about cars to class themselves as shade tree mechanics knew how
to do that to find out if they needed to get the car to someone else who
did know enough to fix it.

The screwdriver shown in that picture isn't what is usually considered a
true turnscrew in that the lower part of the shank is round vs. flat. I
know I've seen ones like that with a flat area just below the handle
that changes to round lower down, but I can't recall whether they were
some particular brand or what. I wonder if they might possibly have been
an intermediate style during the change from flat to round shanks?

Best Wishes,
Bob

Louis Michaud wrote:
>Bonjour Peter,
>Nice find!  [...]

For those interested in this book (as I was) I'll point out
that searches for the book, on the used-book sites, seem to
turn up quite a few hits, and at quite reasonable prices.

For example, I went to http://www.bookfinder.com/ and searched on
Book Title: Practical Man's Book.

Note:  Although the image that Peter posted shows an Australian
publisher, the book I found lists a British publisher, 
Odhams Press LTD --however, given the description of the book,
and since it has the same title and same set of editors, I can
only assume it's the same book.

Also, since the book has a British publisher it shouldn't come as
too surprising that most of the used-bookstores that turned up are
also in the UK.   OTOH, I just ordered my copy from a bookstore
in Chattanooga TN, for $4.95.

Nichael

 From Bob:

>The screwdriver shown in that picture isn't what is usually considered a
>true turnscrew in that the lower part of the shank is round vs. flat. I
>know I've seen ones like that with a flat area just below the handle
>that changes to round lower down,  

These are still available and work great: oval handle for grip, tip
is properly shaped (tapers towards the handle) and a flat to
apply extra torque.

http://www.garrettwade.com/jump.jsp?lGen=detail&itemID=100396&itemType=PRODU
CT&iMainCat=10098&iSubCat=10135&iProductID=100396

LV used to have them, Garrett Wade still has them. IIRC the brand
is Crown, not sure.

Louis Michaud
Rimouski, Quebec

They're fun to find at the FM.  Don't see them often,
most folks don't know what they are, so they're cheap,
and as Louis says, a pleasure to use.

Tom Ellis
Dayton OH

-----Original Message-----
From: Louis Michaud [mailto:louis_michaud@u...]
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 11:51 AM
To: oldtools
Subject: [oldtools] Re: Great old book & turnscrew use

 From Bob:

>The screwdriver shown in that picture isn't what is usually considered a
>true turnscrew in that the lower part of the shank is round vs. flat. I
>know I've seen ones like that with a flat area just below the handle
>that changes to round lower down,  

These are still available and work great: oval handle for grip, tip
is properly shaped (tapers towards the handle) and a flat to
apply extra torque.

Our Venerable Bob Nelson says. . .

>The screwdriver shown in that picture isn't what is usually considered
>a true turnscrew in that the lower part of the shank is round vs. flat.
>I know I've seen ones like that with a flat area just below the handle
>that changes to round lower down, but I can't recall whether they were
>some particular brand or what. I wonder if they might possibly have
>been an intermediate style during the change from flat to round shanks?

Hmm, well, I have a few of these that came from my Dad's toolbox, and I
see many, many of them over here (in the UK Paddy) - in fact they are
still available new from, IIRC, Marples, and maybe others.

If we are saying that a 'true' turnscrew is a shaped flat plate
(tanged?) then They'd be harder to find - though easier to make.

I've always assumed that 'turnscrew' was merely an old fashioned word
for screw driver - from the time we turned them, rather than 'drove'
them into place..

A lingual relic of a time richer age....

Richard Wilson - awaiting correction and hte light of truth, and Using
'Venerable' in the sense of 'revered for his knowledge'

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: -----Original Message-----
: From: Richard.Wilson@s... [mailto:Richard.Wilson@s...]
: Sent: 03 May 2002 16:40
: To: oldtools
: Cc: brian_welch@h...; oldtools@c...
: Subject: [oldtools] Re: Great old book & turnscrew use
:
: >The screwdriver shown in that picture isn't what is usually
: considered a
: >true turnscrew in that the lower part of the shank is round
: vs. flat.

: Hmm, well, I have a few of these that came from my Dad's
: toolbox, and I see
: many, many of them over here (in the UK Paddy) - in fact they
: are still
: available new from, IIRC, Marples, and maybe others.
:
: If we are saying that a 'true' turnscrew is a shaped flat
: plate (tanged?)
: then They'd be harder to find

I think that this pattern is known as the 'London' pattern.

- though easier to make.

For Londoners, they'd need to be! 8-).

: I've always assumed that 'turnscrew' was merely an old
: fashioned word for
: screw driver - from the time we turned them, rather than
: 'drove' them into
: place..

This is also my assumption.

Jeff, like Richard, a northerner.
-- 
Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK
Jeff@m...
http://www.millard.demon.co.uk/index.htm

Louis/All,

That drill is labelled as a "bench drill" and is purchased
as such. It certainly does appear to share many components
with a typical breast drill, but there is no article about
making one for yourself. Sorry.  I'll try and remember to
bring the book back to work tomorrow and scan any pics that
show the bench drill in greater detail.

Peter Williams            | Tel +61 3 5279 7456
Network support/Webmaster | Fax +61 3 5279 7414
Hendersons Industries     | peter.williams@h...
PO Box 4 Nth Geelong 3215 | http://www.hendersons.com.au/
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Louis Michaud [mailto:louis_michaud@u...]
> 
> I noticed on the cover that there is a bench mounted press
> drill that seems to be made with a breast drill. 
> Any chances of posting the instructions on making it?
> 

Indeed, some of the articles seem to have a rather British
tone about them, I suspect that they are indeed sourced
from Ol' Blighty and that our popular city newspaper has
been given rights to print them.

Any other Aussies living near Melbourne who are interested
in the book may want to visit "Book Affair" in Faraday St
Carlton, just off Lygon St. I found another one there on
Saturday afternoon, but it is $25 and missing the folder of
large versions of the project drawings. The same shop also
had quite a few other quaint old DIY/Woodwork books.

Peter Williams            | Tel +61 3 5279 7456
Network support/Webmaster | Fax +61 3 5279 7414
Hendersons Industries     | peter.williams@h...
PO Box 4 Nth Geelong 3215 | http://www.hendersons.com.au/
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nichael Cramer [mailto:nichael@s...]
> 
> For example, I went to http://www.bookfinder.com/ and searched on
> Book Title: Practical Man's Book.
> 
> Note:  Although the image that Peter posted shows an Australian
> publisher, the book I found lists a British publisher, 
> 

The only one in remotely useable condition I've seen lately
had been "restored" by painting the handle gloss black,
and the ferrule and blade silver with an aluminium rich paint.

Peter Williams            | Tel +61 3 5279 7456
Network support/Webmaster | Fax +61 3 5279 7414
Hendersons Industries     | peter.williams@h...
PO Box 4 Nth Geelong 3215 | http://www.hendersons.com.au/
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ellis, Thomas [mailto:thomas_ellis@r...]
> 
> They're fun to find at the FM.  Don't see them often,
> most folks don't know what they are, so they're cheap,
> and as Louis says, a pleasure to use.
> 
> 

--- Peter Williams 
wrote:

> That drill is labelled as a "bench drill" and is
> purchased
> as such. It certainly does appear to share many
> components
> with a typical breast drill, but there is no article
> about
> making one for yourself. 

Both Millers Falls and Goodell Pratt made drills of
this general type, or made stands that held a breast
drill to allow use as a bench drill.  One of the
companies (don't have catalogs handy, so not sure if
it was M-F or G-P) made different sizes, the smaller
using a hand drill, the larger a breast drill, and
also made versions with the drill as a permanent part
of the drill, in addition to the actual bench drills
with slightly different mechanisms.  I think the
available reprints of these companies catalogs show
quite a variety of these drills.

=====
Jim Erdman  (in Menomonie, WI)

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Nelson [mailto:reeinelson@w...]
> 
> The screwdriver shown in that picture isn't what is usually considered a
> true turnscrew in that the lower part of the shank is round vs. flat.
> 
> Using a screwdriver to check plug ignition was
> standard practice in those daays
>

Bob,

I don't know about that.
I doubt that there is a distinction based on a particular
blade configuration, "turnscrew" is just an old-fashioned
word for what we now call a scredriver. Weren't there various
"patterns" of these old screwdrivers? London, Cabinetmakers, etc?

I of course know about diagnostic and tuning procedures on
old cars, such as the flathead 6 shown in the old photo.
I did work as a mechanic for about five years. And have
worked on many engines with a mechanical disributor and even
a couple with a magneto (ie. Wisconson air-cooled V4).

I was just amused to see such use of a fine old wooden
handled turnscrew. I had an uncle who could stop an old
side valve inline six by placing a fingertip on each plug
and having his palms against the head casting. He could
short enough plugs to stop the engine and keep his hands
there till it stopped, must have been mad :-)

Peter Williams            | Tel +61 3 5279 7456
Network support/Webmaster | Fax +61 3 5279 7414
Hendersons Industries     | peter.williams@h...
PO Box 4 Nth Geelong 3215 | http://www.hendersons.com.au/

Hi Peter & All,

A few days ago, I suggested that turnscrew was the name for flat bladed
tools and screwdriver the name for round shank ones. Since then, there
have been three denials registered which claim that the names turnscrew
and screwdriver have no such distinction and screwdriver is just a
latter day term that has come into use as a substitute for turnscrew.
Interestingly, two of those denials came from England and one from
Australia. I'm wondering if there's some UK vs. US semantics at work
here?

It's certainly true that the name turnscrew was used for some time
before starting to be replaced by the name screwdriver. It's also true
that flat bladed tools were in use for some time before starting to be
replaced by the round shank ones. I've developed the impression that
many US dealers and collectors have tended to combine those two truths
into the usage I cited. But that might well be just something that I've
come to think based on only a few exposures.

So, does anybody else in the US share my thinking that there is such a
distinction in common US usage of the two terms?

Best Wishes,
Bob 

Bob,

The all flat and flat/round ones all are called screwdrivers
in books that aren't truly ancient, so I assume they could
all be called turnscrews in ancient books (assuming that both
types existed then). Does anyone have "One good turn" or
whatever the screwdriver book is called?

Here is a snippet which says all flat ones
are "carpenters" and flat/round ones are "cabinetmakers".
This is from the Aust/British book "The practical man's book
of things to make and do".
http://www.wood-workers.com/users/williams/oddpics/screwdrivers1.jpg

I could swear that last night when I was looking through
"Newnes Complete Practical Woodworking" that I saw the
all flat ones described as cabinetmakers pattern
and the flat/round ones described as London pattern.

Jeff, any ideas (UK local knowledge)?

Peter Williams            | Tel +61 3 5279 7456
Network support/Webmaster | Fax +61 3 5279 7414
Hendersons Industries     | peter.williams@h...
PO Box 4 Nth Geelong 3215 | http://www.hendersons.com.au/
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Nelson [mailto:reeinelson@w...]
> 
> A few days ago, I suggested that turnscrew was the name for flat bladed
> tools and screwdriver the name for round shank ones. 
> I'm wondering if there's some UK vs. US semantics at work
> here?
> 

I scanned the section with a pic and info on the bench drill.
http://www.wood-workers.com/users/williams/oddpics/bench_drill.jpg

Peter Williams            | Tel +61 3 5279 7456
Network support/Webmaster | Fax +61 3 5279 7414
Hendersons Industries     | peter.williams@h...
PO Box 4 Nth Geelong 3215 | http://www.hendersons.com.au/
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Louis Michaud [mailto:louis_michaud@u...]
> 
> on the cover that is a bench mounted press drill
> Any chances of posting the instructions on making it?
> 

Silly me, one street too far South, actually near the
corner of Lygon and Elgin Sts.
They have a website: http://www.bookaffair.net/site/

Peter Williams            | Tel +61 3 5279 7456
Network support/Webmaster | Fax +61 3 5279 7414
Hendersons Industries     | peter.williams@h...
PO Box 4 Nth Geelong 3215 | http://www.hendersons.com.au/
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Williams [mailto:peter.williams@h...]
> 
> Any other Aussies living near Melbourne who are interested
> in the book may want to visit "Book Affair" in Faraday St
> Carlton, just off Lygon St.