Hi all,

Because its existing blade is too soft and won't hold an edge, I've
decided to replace the blade on my Norris A-5. The plane is one of the
later production models with a gaping mouth. I've currently got it
shimmed to an .012 opening. 

Because they're not adjustable, blade thickness is pretty important, and
I'm trying to decide between buying one of Ron Hock's standard infill
blades or having a custom blade done. I asked the group this question
several years ago, got busy and neglected to save the replies. My
Norris, has been sitting on the shelf ever since, sad and neglected, 
because it's no fun to resharpen every fifteen minutes. If I remember
correctly, the responses were that the mouths where somewhere between
.006 and .008 in. but somehow that doesn't seem right.

Seems pretty tight, but, on theother hand, I do get some tearout at .012
in. I don't want
to screw this one up, because there will be hell to pay if I'm even a
little too thick. So if any contented yuppie bastahd infill owners would
like to run a feeler gage through the mouth of his or her pride and joy,
and speak to the agony, or ecstasy, of plane with that configuration,
I'd be appreciative.

Randy Roeder           --Repaint houses, not old tools.

Hey Randy!

I've got a Spiers infill coffin-body smoother that probably fits the
description of "gaping mouth". The mouth itself is .313". I don't know
about Norris planes, but I was told I had to use 5/32nds 01 tool steel
for the replacement blade. The blades aren't tapered, either. In any
case, not sure what the clearance is when the blade's in place, but it
takes an extremely light cut. I think there was a thread once about guys
keeping more than one blade for these, and using an 1/8" blade when they
really want to cut stuff down. Seems to be one possible reason why these
turn up with obviously wrong blades in them.

I made my own blade and it works great. I do have a milling attachment
for my machinist lathe, and that made life a whole lot easier. The only
thing I might try differently if I were doing it again would be to try
A2 Air hardening tool steel, (think that's the designation) which is a
whole lot more expensive but also another level better. I've done a bit
on the forge using old car springs, and the difference is amazing. In
any case, 01 puts most factory blades to shame, and I regularly replace
the original blades with it, even on the fillister bed of my '41.

Hope that helps.

Regards,

Matt Turner (known to have cut a few dadoes in his time...) Turner
Racing Shells Ltd "Manufacturers of Only the Finest Quality Red Ink..."

> blades or having a custom blade done. I asked the group this question

I'd be interested in hearing where you would get custom blades. I've got
a few planes that need blades...

-- 
Bretton Wade (aka Noz Moe King) in Bellevue, WA
http://www.galoot-coop.org/

If you haven't heard from Rev. Ron and one or two others within
the next hour, I'll be amazed.

Steve - Kokomo galoot

--- Bretton Wade <brettonw@m...> wrote:
> > blades or having a custom blade done. I asked the group this
> question
> 
> I'd be interested in hearing where you would get custom
> blades. I've got
> a few planes that need blades...
> 
> --
> Bretton Wade (aka Noz Moe King) in Bellevue, WA
> http://www.galoot-coop.org/
> 
> --
>
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>
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>
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> 

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Randy needs a new blade for his Norris.

Is there something unusual about the Norris irons that it would be
difficult to simply use a blade from some other old plane?

Are they laminated and tapered? Do they have unusual holes or shapes?

Brent

----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Roeder" <roeder.randall@m...>
> Because they're not adjustable, blade thickness is pretty important, and
> I'm trying to decide between buying one of Ron Hock's standard infill
> blades or having a custom blade done.

> So if any contented yuppie bastahd infill owners would
like to run a feeler gage through the mouth of his or her pride and joy,
and speak to the agony, or ecstasy, of plane with that configuration,
I'd be appreciative.

   I used a custom Hock blade and lapped it to get a mouth opening of .003.
I had to get a custom blade because Ron didn't offer his infill replacements
back then.

 Why a .003 mouth, you ask ? Cause it finally slipped through the mouth
opening and I was tired of lapping.  It can plane most any wood I've tried,
with or against the grain, with no tearout.

  Stick a 3/16" chunk of metal or something in the plane and see if it
clears the mouth. Then order a plane blade of appropriate thickness.

 Go with the tighest mouth you can accomplish, the whole point of these
infills is final smoothing, and that is best done with a tight mouth. You
can do your preliminary smoothing with a regular smoother and save the
infill for the last few passes.

 Ray T. Smith

Steve Jones wrote:
> 
> If you haven't heard from Rev. Ron and one or two others within
> the next hour, I'll be amazed.
> 
> >
> > I'd be interested in hearing where you would get custom
> > blades. I've got
> > a few planes that need blades...

I can't believe he had to ask...

We do custom work all the time. Send a sketch. But if it's for an
infill, try http://www.thebestthings.com first. We make such blades for
them and they might offer what you seek.

Peace,
The Never-Wrong Reverend Ron
(I may not always be right, but I'm never wrong)

-- 
Ron Hock (ron@hocktools.com)
HOCK TOOLS -- http://www.hocktools.com
16650 Mitchell Creek Drive  Fort Bragg, CA 95437
(707)964-2782 toll free: (888)28-BLADE [282-5233] fax (707)964-7816

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Randy Roeder" <roeder.randall@m...>
To: <oldtools@w...>
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 8:46 AM
Subject: Infill mouths

> Hi all,
> 
> Because its existing blade is too soft and won't hold an edge, I've
> decided to replace the blade on my Norris A-5. 

Have you thought of re-hardening the blade you got?  

Paul Pflumm

GG's --

Randy Roeder in his request for blade help with his infilled plane remarked
(highly snipped)

... my Norris A-5. The plane is one of the later production models with a
gaping mouth....

Matt Turner then mentioned in his response (again highly snipped)

...I've got a Spiers infill coffin-body smoother that probably fits the
description of "gaping mouth". The mouth itself is .313"....

My question then being why would these "gaping mouthed smoothers" be so
highly prized for final finishing in light of the our efforts to it as tight
as possible?

Thanks,

Lew Soloway

-- not wanting to start a holy war, just wanting an answer. I have one of
those "gaping mouthed Norris A51's"

No holy war at all...

I know the post-war infills were supposed to be lower quality - I
believe they used stained maple instead of rosewood, for one thing (but
don't quote me...) That was in one of Ken Robert's books, I think.

The difference is between the mouth of the plane and the cutter
clearance. I quoted the width of the opening in the sole because it
looks huge, at .313", and that may be what Randy's seeing. At least he
can compare his plane to mine. If you stick a normal 1/8" blade in the
plane, the clearance is huge, and it may not seem to be a quality plane.
But the correct thickness of the iron is supposed to be 5/32nds,with an
untapered blade, and with that, the planes (at least pre-war) are so
nicely built, the clearance should come down to those magic numbers that
users love. I haven't measured the clearance on my plane, 'cause I'd
have to get out a large pack of brass shim stock that's buried in a
toolchest. But the results are wonderful. There is that theory out there
that people kept second blades in thinner material to hog wood down.
Again, all anecdotal kinda stuff. But Randy may just find that a 5/32nds
blade is what his plane needs.

Would be interested in knowing the final result. A 5/32nds slip if wood
should be all that's needed to slip into the plane and check the
clearance.

Regards,

Matt

GGs,

This talk about infill mouths begs the question
(perhaps only from me) of: how do you measure the
infill mouth??

Do you measure it parallel to the sole of the plane,
or do you measure it parallel to the iron - by using
a feeler gage and sliding it down the throat?

Thanks,

Cheers,
Jack in Endwell, NY

Correction...
About measuring the mouth:
I goofed.  I meant perpendicular to the sole for
one, and parallel to the iron for the other.

Sorry,
Pass the spittoon,
Jack in Endwell, NY

I wrote:
> 
> GGs,
> 
> This talk about infill mouths begs the question
> (perhaps only from me) of: how do you measure the
> infill mouth??
> 
> Do you measure it parallel to the sole of the plane,
> or do you measure it parallel to the iron - by using
> a feeler gage and sliding it down the throat?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jack Kamishlian" <kamishlianj@w...>
> About measuring the mouth:
> I goofed.  I meant perpendicular to the sole for
> one, and parallel to the iron for the other.
> 

Understood what you meant. 

I measure mine perpendicular.  Which makes
them "narrower" than when measured parallel.
But also has more to do with where the shaving
ends up going in normal operation.

Then again, not all infills need a very narrow
mouth for their operation.  And when they do, 
using a shim to reduce the mouth is quite normal.
I think old ones used to be made of leather.
Nowadays I'd even go for one made off laminated
veneers.

Narrow mouths are useful for very fine cuts
and final smoothing and also for some block plane 
operations.  Other than that, a more normal mouth is
perfectly OK.  Size and thickness of the iron is 
(to me) much more important than the mouth size.

Nuno Souto
dbvision@o...