GG's;

Bob Nelson writes:

"This might be a pet personal peeve, but I know of too many things in museums 
that
are in some back room "study" collection rather than on display and are not 
really avialable for "study" because no one, including the owning museum, 
knows they're there."

This is so painfully true.  There is more great stuff locked up in basements 
and attics of museums never again to see the light of day.  An unfortunate 
example is the Duncan Pfyfe tool chest in the Museum of the City of New York. 
 I mean come on guys / gals....   it's Duncan Pfyfe.....  put it out there!!  
I have a connected cousin, who was able to get me in the inner sanctum of the 
museum, so I have seen the chest, and it's great to see.....  but it ought to 
be out there next to the Duncan Pfyfe furniture...  no?  Sorry for the 
rant....  Bob just got me going (thanks Bob).

So on another note, if you're a collector, and we all are in some fashion - 
whether you can admit it or not (Hi, my name is Matt and I have a monkey 
wrench on my back)...  don't let your stuff go into a museum.....  share it 
with others - let them understand your passion (for highly collectible stuff 
or even mundane user stuff, passion is passion).... do like Bob did and enjoy 
the hunt, the study, the research, the having and the sharing (or the using 
for those who are 'not' collectors)....  and then in the future, put it back 
into circulation via auctions or gifts to other enthusiasts - just keep 'em 
out there.  'nough said.  Thanks,

Matt Glass - bench nearly done - Emmert waiting to be mounted (beep beep) - 
soon to be not just a member of FOYBEVO but of FOYBEVO/U in Nukeville, USA

At 10:30 AM -0800 3/13/02, MisterMatt@a... wrote:
>There is more great stuff locked up in basements
>and attics of museums never again to see the light of day.

	But it's not just supposedly public institutions that are guilty of
this sin.
	I can report an experience that was a shocker to me, fairly early
in my slide down the OT slope.  I casually acquired a block plane made by a
well known but long gone maker of metallic planes operating from about 1969
to 1879 in a certain town once known as a major tool-making center in
central New York State.  I was subsequently invited by a collector of the
products of said plane maker, who was interested in checking out the plane
I had casually acquired, to see his collection.  The shocker was that maybe
50 examples of this plane maker's product, all potential museum pieces,
were locked away in antique tool chests in the collector's basement, never
seeing the light of day, not available either to the public or to other
tool people, literally gathering mold and developing rust pits from neglect.
	My thought at the time was:  "This ain't right.  These tools should
either be in a museum or in the hands of someone who will display them for
others or otherwise make them available to those who might appreciate them
more than is their present fate."
	So what's the solution?
		Tom Holloway

Hi Tom & All,

Tom H. mentions having seen a pile of tools from one NY maker squirreled
away in a collector's basement. I'm sure there are lots of such piles in
lots of colletor's basements as well as in museum's basements. On the
other hand, the fact that Tom saw those tools might imply that they had
been seen by others too under similar (or other) circumstances. I don't
know if the man Tom mentioned was a member of EAIA or MWTCA or how
active he might have been in the tool field. If he was a member and saw
an appeal for info about tools from that maker re a planned article or
book, might he have responded? While preparing several of the articles
I've written for the Chronicle, Gristmill, Tool Shed, etc., I've asked
tool people I know if they had or knew of the tools of interest and been
given several positive responses or leads to positive information. I
never formally published a request for such info, but would probably
have received even more if I had. In several cases, I also heard from
people with such tools or with other relevant knowledge after the
articles appeared. I never got any info of any kind from any museum. So
my take is that it's a matter of degree. Using purely arbitrary numbers,
95% of the tools in museum "study collections" might be goners as
opposed to, no offense intended, 99% of those bought by users and only
68% of those in private collections. It would certainly be desirable to
have some sort of access even better than the 68%, but (IMHO) that's the
best option currently available.

Best Wishes,
Bob

Hi Matt,

The Duncan Pfyfe tool chest was on display (on the top floor)
when I saw it last - also was the first time I saw it too.
It was open, and you could get a look at some of the tools
that were in it, but not all.  Maybe a very small fraction.
This was last December, I think.

Cheers,
Jack in Endwell, NY

MisterMatt@a... wrote:

> This is so painfully true.  There is more great stuff locked up in basements
> and attics of museums never again to see the light of day.  An unfortunate
> example is the Duncan Pfyfe tool chest in the Museum of the City of New York.
>

Well, once more into the breach...

Please don't take this as a show of temper on the porch, and it's not a
defense of all museums, but the other side should be told. And I'm only
speaking for myself here.

The main purpose of a museum is to preserve artifacts of the past for
future generations. There's only a small amount of exhibit space
available, and besides the need to rotate exhibits and bring in new
visitors, there simply isn't the room to have all artifacts on display.
In the museum I worked in, there are now over 7,000 artifacts, and
something like 3,000 of them are woodworking planes! We did contribute
to research, and while I was there, I believe we published 5 or 6 small
booklets, including "The Guide to Canadian Planemakers". That was with
tons of help from several collectors (one in particular), but still, not
bad for a small museum with only one full-time staff member.

Believe it or not, the majority of that collection was donated by
collectors - up to 1,000 planes in a single donation. The reasons
included trying to keep a collection together that took years to amass
from being broken up into small lots.

I expect part of the misunderstanding I'm reading on the list may be due
to a misconception about museums in general. They don't have lots of
money. There is no yearly budget to purchase artifacts. Sometimes you
can slip one or two in as part of "Exhibit Expense" if you're crafty,
but those $4,000 ebony plows with ivory tips - museums wait until
someone wants it preserved indefinitely, and then they might get it, if
no one in the collector's family wants it. That's understandable. But
museums aren't out there driving up prices on municipal budgets.

In terms of accessibility, it was always our policy to let collectors
into artifact storage. Ask around. It was great getting someone in who'd
really appreciate what we had. In a large museum where tools only form a
small part of the mandate, of course people didn't know what they had.
How many people in the general public know a jack from a jointer?

Not meant to be a rant, but I've seen the other side of the story. I
actually had more than a few people try to -discourage- interpretation
and demonstrations! The attitude seemed to be that it was all a lost
art, and it was sacriledge to even attempt to use a plane if you hadn't
served a 7 year apprenticeship already. I don't know how many idiots
tried to tell me I was planing against the grain when I used my '55!
Funny how well black walnut will cut when you're doing it wrong! Or the
guys who'd bellow "my grandfather was a master cabinetmaker from Sweden
and he told me you ALWAYS cut the pins first!" followed by that
"I-dare-you-to-suggest-he-wasn't-apprenticed-to-Christ-himself" stare.

Enough of a rant. I've met some pretty useless museum folk myself. But
people make the difference, and if you want to see the situation
improve, get involved. If you want to see an example of what museums and
collectors can do, check out the virtual exhibit in the South Wing at
antiquetools.com, or check out the Galoot-a-vision tape. Really time
another one of those got done. We could have put ten times the amount of
stuff on that video, but I didn't even touch the '55 'cause I thought it
would be done to death. Couldn't believe anyone was impressed by the
Stanley 39. It was actually an after thought to include it.

Anyway, I've got to get back to setting a keel for my next boat.Don't
think I can use the Davis inclinometer on this one, but you should see
the pile of Starrett tools I had to buy new to build the moulds.

Matt Turner (Former museum person, still volunteers)

> ----------
> Matthew Turner[SMTP:matt@t...] --
> 
> In terms of accessibility, it was always our policy to let collectors into
> artifact storage. Ask around. It was great getting someone in who'd really
> appreciate what we had. In a large museum where tools only form a small
> part of the mandate, of course people didn't know what they had. How many
> people in the general public know a jack from a jointer?
> 
Late one afternoon I was passing near West Chester, PA. I had seen
references to the Historical Society Museum so I stopped in and asked about
furniture. It was on the third or fourth floor -- and there went my
perception of what a "local historical society" museum was! 

When I arrived on the proper floor I found myself alone w/ a bunch of
fabulous examples of early Pennsylvania furniture. As I began to look at the
collection, a "staff only" door opened and this guy walks out. "Are you the
one interested in furniture? Most of our collection is in storage, but if
there is anything in particular you would like to see, I'll be glad to
arrange it." It was late in the day and SWMBO was waiting for me, so I
confined myself to the displays, But this curator was clearly excited to
find someone to share his treasures with.

Bill, in sunny So. Calif, who will someday get back there for a longer
visit.

That last post certainly makes me a whole lot happier, and thank you.

Like it or not, museums and collecting are about material wealth, and
one person's collection is another's hoard. The nice thing about working
at the MacLachlan Woodworking Museum is that it was about tools -
creating material wealth. Hard to find fault with that. The world could
always use more. And the more that can be done to learn about the tools,
the better.

Maybe enough tools will get packed away by collectors and museums to
drive some of the prices up to the point of what they'd actually cost
new. Know what will happen then? Someone will build more. Personally,
given the choice of anything made by Spiers or Norris, or a brand new
Carl Holtey, I'd take one of Carl's planes.

Regards,

Matt Turner

Matthew wrote -

> Please don't take this as a show of temper on the porch, and it's not
a defense of all museums, but the other side should be told. And I'm
only speaking for myself here.
>
> The main purpose of a museum is to preserve artifacts of the past for
future generations. There's only a small amount of exhibit space
available, and besides the need to rotate exhibits and bring in new
visitors, there simply isn't the room to have all artifacts on display.
In the museum I worked in, there are now over 7,000 artifacts, and
something like 3,000 of them are woodworking planes! We did contribute
to research, and while I was there, I believe we published 5 or 6 small
booklets, including "The Guide to Canadian Planemakers".

Just by coincidence, here's an article that appeared in yesterday's
Detroit News. It documents the challenge faced by a well known museum
and how they are dealing with it.

http://detnews.com/2002/entertainment/0203/13/a01-439390.htm

And so can other museums with $17-million to spare.

Dennis Heyza
Macomb Michigan

  I'm agreeing with the theory that the individual museum curator is
  probably most responsible for the "tone" of the museum. I was
  responsible for one for a while. If anyone came to me with an interest
  in something I couldn't wait to show off what we had and pump them
  unmerciful for whatever they might know. If they wanted help from
  little old me, they'd get whatever I knew for sure, and gladly. On the
  other hand, I've tried to be helpful a couple of times at other
  museums and there was nothing. I once found the blades to a nice
  boxwood plow plane out in the barn with the cold chisels while the
  plane was in a glass case inside the main building at a country museum
  not too far from here in the next state. I tried to gently point this
  out and was met with stony hostility for intruding on the knowledge of
  the "great man". Inflated egos are usually just a mask for boiling
  insecurity under the surface. yours, Scott
*******************************
   Scott Grandstaff Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca 96039 scottg@s...
   http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html