> I now use the built in adjustable planing stop on the end of the
> bench for some things that used to require a holdfast. Thanks to Tom
> Holloway, whose idea it was in the first place....

ooh, ooh, more details please.  looks from the pic like the entire
side apron on your bench can slide up and towards the front of the
bench.   how's it affixed to the bench?

Scott

On 12 Mar 2002, at 21:35, Scott Murman wrote:

> > I now use the built in adjustable planing stop on the end of the
> > bench for some things that used to require a holdfast. Thanks to Tom
> > Holloway, whose idea it was in the first place....
>
> ooh, ooh, more details please. looks from the pic like the entire side
> apron on your bench can slide up and towards the front of the bench.
> how's it affixed to the bench?

Hanger bolts and wing nuts. There was a bit of glare in that picture, so
maybe this one is somewhat more clear:

http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/hstop2.jpg

Just grabbed a piece of scrap red oak, drilled four holes slightly
larger than the diameter of the hanger bolts to define two diagonal
slots, removed the material between them to connect the holes. If I
recall correctly (always doubtful) I did this with a coping saw and
cleaned it up with a file. Try very carefully to get the slots exactly
parallel, as mine binds a bit. Maybe I should have used a bevel instead
of just freehanding it.

Drill two holes in the end of the bench, screw in the hanger bolts
(there's a section in the middle you can grab onto to tighten them). Put
the stop over the bolts, add washers and wingnuts and you're done.
Pretty much locks at any position you want - it should be just below the
bench top in "fully retracted" mode so as not to be in the way when you
don't want it there. The width of the board and length of the slots
determines who high it can go, but you don't really need much height.

It's really great if you work with thin stock, as I do. Good job, Tom.

You can see from the later picture that it's been whacked a few times in
the six months that it has been there, but we're talking scrap wood
here. Easy enough to replace it.

-Ken

Ken Greenberg IT #321; Blue Galoot #82 400 Los Gatos Blvd., Los Gatos,
CA 95032 http://www.calast.com/ken/Personal/wood.htm

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In a message dated 3/12/02 9:38:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, Scott Murman 
wrote:

> 
> > I now use the built in adjustable planing stop on the end of the
> > bench for some things that used to require a holdfast. Thanks to Tom
> > Holloway, whose idea it was in the first place....
> 

I installed my twin screw tail vise on the left end of my bench.  Ninety 
percent of the time, it's use is to hold a planing stop.  I find having the 
ability to use holdfasts makes this arrangement even more convenient.  Here 
is a picture of both being used. 

http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/HobbyCt/jaypagona/benchstops.JPG

David Sobel
Tampa, FL

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>http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/HobbyCt/jaypagona/benchstops.JPG

>David Sobel
>Tampa, FL

David,

I noticed the panel raiser in that shot. Now *that* is what I call a 
horned plane. :-)

Jeff Schmidt
Boaz, KY 

who really likes horned planes and figures it has something to do with 
Teutonic blood.

since a picture is worth a 1000 words, guess i'm guilty of reckless
quoting.  

> http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/hstop2.jpg

> http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/HobbyCt/jaypagona/benchstops.JPG

so what is the advantage here over using a tail vise with bench dogs?
rigs that leave the board free to jump off the table drive me nuts
personally, and both of these would.

-SM-
Redwood City, CA
that spar varnish sure brings out the knots and dents in my Borg fir

Scott,

* Scott Murman <smurman@s...> wrote: 
> so what is the advantage here over using a tail vise with bench dogs?
> rigs that leave the board free to jump off the table drive me nuts
> personally, and both of these would.

If you're planing thin stock a vise / bench dog setup can flex the board
in ways that prevent you from planing it flat.  I've found that the
problem you describe becomes less and less of an issue with practice,
although it is sometimes challenging to control the want of a board to
twist out of the way unless you have some sort of stop to prevent it.

                         ++ <--- additional stop
    ++                   ++   
    ||+---------------------+
    ||| board to plane      |
    ||+---------------------+
    ++

I seem to recall either Frank Klauz or Ian Kirby advocating the use
of a single planing stop even for things that most people would clamp
in a front vise (like edge jointing) because he claimed you'd be more
likely to get a perpendicular face if you were disciplined enough to
be successful at planing the edge with the board upright and supported
only by a stop.  Probably in The Workbench Book somewhere.  Never really
worked for me.

I can say that once I got used to my stop (which is just a 1 x 6 thrust
through the bench and held in place with two bolts) I very rarely ever
use my tail vice and bench dogs for anything other than holding my SS
apparatus.

Chris
-- 
Christopher S. Swingley          www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle
Computer Systems Manager         cswingle@i...
University of Alaska Fairbanks

OldTools Searchable Archive: 
    http://nika.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive
    http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive
    http://archive.oldtools.org

Scott and Galoots,

 I often pick the wood up off the bench to look at it when planing
smaller work,  checking my reference marks and looking down he board.
It's also a good excuse to straighten up for a moment.  I like the open
holding style 'rigs' because I don't have to loosen a vise or clamps
every time I want to pick the board up and don't find keeping the board
steady on the bench a problem.

Marvin Paisner
Kootenay Lake, BC

Scott Murman wrote:
> so what is the advantage here over using a tail vise with bench dogs?
> rigs that leave the board free to jump off the table drive me nuts
> personally, and both of these would.
>

I also use just stops when planing. I let a 1" wide dado into my planing
bench and screwed in a 3/4" wide piece of hard maple that it extends just
under 1/4" above the surface. This works well in all but 2 cases.

When working with tall boards, there is a tendency for the board to tip up
at the far end when the plane gets close to the stop. I have found that
just putting a loose piece of scrap about 1" tall between the stop and the
board handles this. Same when starting work on a board when the underside
is convex and tends to lift above the stop when working the end away from
the stop.

When doing lengthwise rabbits, I clamp a stop the full length of the work.
There is just to much lateral pressure at all points along the work to use
anything less than a full planing stop.

When I am working a board, particularly jointing and thicknessing, I lift
the board to look at the gauge marks a lot, both sides. This just would not
be possible if the board was held down.

Brent

----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher S. Swingley" <cswingle@i...>
> * Scott Murman <smurman@s...> wrote:
> > so what is the advantage here over using a tail vise with bench dogs?
> > rigs that leave the board free to jump off the table drive me nuts
> > personally, and both of these would.
>                          ++ <--- additional stop
>     ++                   ++
>     ||+---------------------+
>     ||| board to plane      |
>     ||+---------------------+
>     ++

 GG,

The bench stop I use: a 1/4" x 2" x 12" hardwood batten
that has two fixed bench dogs. The spacing of the dogs is
the same as the spacing of the dog hole rows on the bench.
Plop it in when needed, stow it when you don't. The bird's
mouth block used for edge planing small thin pieces also 
has 2 dogs. Simple, stable and you can have it the lenght
you want. An "L" shaped stop can also be usefull for small 
pieces that keep running away from your plane, two edges
help keep it in place.

regular stop, view from above:
_____
|        |
|  O   |   dog
|        |
|        |
|  O   |  dog
|____ |

"L" stop:
____________________
|                       O        |
|         ______________|
|        |
|   O  |
| ____|

Hope this helps,

Louis Michaud
Rimouski, Quebec

Jeff Schmidt" wrote

> >http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/HobbyCt/jaypagona/benchstops.JPG
>
> >David Sobel
> >Tampa, FL
>
> David,
>
> I noticed the panel raiser in that shot. Now *that* is what I call a
> horned plane. :-)

Look closer Jeff. The plane is going the other way. That's not a horn, it's a
tote.

Cheers
Peter Marquis-Kyle

On 13 Mar 2002, at 11:25, Scott Murman wrote:

> so what is the advantage here over using a tail vise with bench dogs?
> rigs that leave the board free to jump off the table drive me nuts
> personally, and both of these would.

In my case, I don't have a tail vise and bench dogs, so I can't comment
on the comparison with any degree of experience (yet).

One advantage I see here is that there is essentially no setup time.
Just run the board to be planed against the stop and have at it. I used
to just drop the board on the benchtop and secure it with a holdfast
while planing. You have to move the holdfast at least once with this
approach, since it's obviously over the part of the board you are not
working on. This is a significant improvement over that technique (which
probably wasn't very good to begin with).

The stop is "up" most of the time, and doubles as a handy alignment aid.
For example, I've been making stopped rabbets on two boards that face
each other, and it's pretty handy to have an edge to run them against
and make sure the ends of the rabbets are still lined up.

I have not had any problems with boards jumping off my workbench during
planing. I could see it happening if you were planing the concave side
of a board with a lot of bow in it. Maybe I've just been lucky, but if
the stop is up at least half the thickness of a relatively flat piece of
wood, I don't think this is too likely. Of course, I have found many
other ways to knock wood off my bench, which is why the floor around it
is lined with old "welcome mats" and such.

-Ken

Ken Greenberg IT #321; Blue Galoot #82 400 Los Gatos Blvd., Los Gatos,
CA 95032 http://www.calast.com/ken/Personal/wood.htm

Peter Marquis-Kyle wrote,
>Look closer Jeff. The plane is going the other way. That's not a horn, 
>it's a tote.

Someone please pass the spittoon. Thanks for pointing that out, Peter. 
I have had my nose buried in _Four Centuries of Dutch Planes and 
Planemakers_ by Gerrit van der Sterre and now I am “seeing” horned 
planes everywhere.

Jeff Schmidt
Boaz, KY

on 3-14-02 11:07 AM, Jeff Schmidt wrote:

> I have had my nose buried in _Four Centuries of Dutch Planes and
> Planemakers_ by Gerrit van der Sterre

Jeff, what language is this text in?

-- 
Jim Holliman
user - hopefully with a capital U some day. (woodworking)
In Tulsa town where the weather is currently fantastic albeit a little
windy.